"there’s reason to believe the link between falling unemployment and rising wages has been severed"

[MADem]

55. I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible to have a reasoned debate here on DU about this

or other issues of real importance. I understand and share your frustration.

The conversation automatically gets personal--YEW must LUUUUUUV the TPP....YEW want to screw the workers....YEW want to keep wages low...

It's just so exhausting.

A few years back, I remember seeing threads about how awful manufacturers were to pay little kids a dollar a day to sew hundred dollar sneakers. Now the threads are all about those little kids "Takin' our JERBS and workin' fer CHEEEEEP!"

The problem with debating the TPP in public is exactly what we're seeing here, writ small--the shitflinging and accusations would be lobbed in the public square. Reasoned conversation would be drowned out by personal vitriol.

While I am a fan of a couple of things (that won't happen), I don't think a hair-on-fire attitude helps. The things I'd like to see are

--A longer discussion/public comment period ahead of the vote.

--The opportunity for a small group of Senators from both parties (because it would have to be that way) to review the documents before they are finalized and offer some guidance to the negotiators.

There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip, too. Not only does the Senate have an opportunity to say "Hell to the NO," the POTUS has a veto pen.

You know, you could tell me that you work for the US Trade and Development Agency, or the Tradewinds Seafood Restaurant--it just doesn't matter where you work or where I work or where anyone works, really--people could be making shit up, and how would we know? Ideas stand on their own, without a "I'm an INSIDER with Special Knowledge" patina, most of the time, anyway--certainly when discussing an issue like this, unless someone says they are on the inside of those negotiations (and then they'd get in trouble for revealing any details as they're all on a non-disclosure agreement). I know you know that--it's just sad that we can't converse like adults.

This does have potential to change our world, to level that playing field, to make life a bit more tolerable for THEM, while maybe making it a bit less tolerable for US. We just won't know until the details are made public.