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In reply to the discussion: "there’s reason to believe the link between falling unemployment and rising wages has been severed" [View all]MADem
(135,425 posts)71. Let me try to answer your questions.
Why would have to be this way?
"small group of Senators"?
Don't they have copy machines, email,
or other technology to share the information?
Because this is the way the Senate handles classified material that isn't ready for dissemination. A small group of politicians has access to the material, but the grouping is small enough so that if anyone leaks, it's pretty clear who is doing the leaking. By entering into these negotiations, we, the USA, AGREED to keep the negotiations secret. Why? So that nations would feel free to propose ideas without getting the shit kicked out of them for doing nothing more than talking out their asses, or thinking out loud. The negotiations are to happen around the table--not in the public square.
Does the House have no responsibility?
This is a trade agreement, not an expenditure. Appropriations begin in the House. This is a Senate thing--they have the lead on this. The paperwork starts with them.
Why can't ALL of the Congress know the details? Assuming that the TPP is "fast tracked"--and that is also a key element of our participation (the rest of the countries who are "in on" this process are not going to go back to the table if a hundred Senators want to change "happy" to "glad" for example)-- there will be no changes to it. It'll start in the Senate and there will be no changes. The House doesn't like it? They can vote it down. The POTUS isn't happy with the end result? He can veto.
On another level, individual politicians (those who stand for election more frequently than every six years, e.g.) will take proposals, turn them into done deals in their heads, and use them get people shitflinging in order to raise money for their next election. "They're gonna take our JERBS!!!!! They're gonna take over our computers!!!"
Who are the "negotiators" BTW?
This guy and his staff: http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/biographies-key-officials/united-states-trade-representative-michael-froman
These links should answer your questions:
http://www.ustr.gov/tpp
http://www.ustr.gov/tpp/Summary-of-US-objectives
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/mitch-mcconnell-tpp-tea-party_n_6182126.html
The EFF objects to the agreement because they fear that the gubmint's gonna take over our computers, and make it harder to rip off intellectual property--those aren't their only concerns, but they're the ones that get people the most excited, and these are the concerns you read about most here on DU and elsewhere:
https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp
"small group of Senators"?
Don't they have copy machines, email,
or other technology to share the information?
Because this is the way the Senate handles classified material that isn't ready for dissemination. A small group of politicians has access to the material, but the grouping is small enough so that if anyone leaks, it's pretty clear who is doing the leaking. By entering into these negotiations, we, the USA, AGREED to keep the negotiations secret. Why? So that nations would feel free to propose ideas without getting the shit kicked out of them for doing nothing more than talking out their asses, or thinking out loud. The negotiations are to happen around the table--not in the public square.
Does the House have no responsibility?
This is a trade agreement, not an expenditure. Appropriations begin in the House. This is a Senate thing--they have the lead on this. The paperwork starts with them.
Why can't ALL of the Congress know the details? Assuming that the TPP is "fast tracked"--and that is also a key element of our participation (the rest of the countries who are "in on" this process are not going to go back to the table if a hundred Senators want to change "happy" to "glad" for example)-- there will be no changes to it. It'll start in the Senate and there will be no changes. The House doesn't like it? They can vote it down. The POTUS isn't happy with the end result? He can veto.
On another level, individual politicians (those who stand for election more frequently than every six years, e.g.) will take proposals, turn them into done deals in their heads, and use them get people shitflinging in order to raise money for their next election. "They're gonna take our JERBS!!!!! They're gonna take over our computers!!!"
Who are the "negotiators" BTW?
This guy and his staff: http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/biographies-key-officials/united-states-trade-representative-michael-froman
These links should answer your questions:
http://www.ustr.gov/tpp
http://www.ustr.gov/tpp/Summary-of-US-objectives
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/mitch-mcconnell-tpp-tea-party_n_6182126.html
The EFF objects to the agreement because they fear that the gubmint's gonna take over our computers, and make it harder to rip off intellectual property--those aren't their only concerns, but they're the ones that get people the most excited, and these are the concerns you read about most here on DU and elsewhere:
https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp
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"there’s reason to believe the link between falling unemployment and rising wages has been severed" [View all]
marmar
Jan 2015
OP
No doubt about it. Our workers now have to compete with Bangladesh wages (and working conditions)
Doctor_J
Jan 2015
#1
You are spot on. The TPP is indefensible, and I wish, in a way, TPP supporters
djean111
Jan 2015
#20
+ 1000 to that. Anyone with Wall St investments is a TPP supporter at this point.
raouldukelives
Jan 2015
#118
count me as cynical, with cause to be. if you're not, you haven't been paying attention.
ND-Dem
Jan 2015
#94
he's not soft peddling it. This is a hard sell of yet another far right abomination
Doctor_J
Jan 2015
#67
The "US's position" is the position of the multinational corporate lobbyists.
stillwaiting
Jan 2015
#58
and people who used farmers markets used to be 'well outside' too. but now we have two
ND-Dem
Jan 2015
#93
I live in a poor, conservative town and a hell of a lot of people go to the farmers' market.
ND-Dem
Jan 2015
#99
no (though we don't have a 'mega' grocery store.) but being as 20 years ago we didn't even
ND-Dem
Jan 2015
#103
All of the language in the negotiating position of all of the partners ...
1StrongBlackMan
Jan 2015
#26
I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible to have a reasoned debate here on DU about this
MADem
Jan 2015
#55
"...build on the strong labor provisions in the most recent U.S. trade agreements"< Which destroyed
jtuck004
Jan 2015
#100
I don't think he missed it all seeing the same point is right there in the blurb
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#86
I don't know if it's you or me, but I'm having a hard time getting your meaning. "Demanders"
ND-Dem
Jan 2015
#95
Outsourcing results in factories closing when the entire function is outsourced
seabeckind
Jan 2015
#36
It is so curious to me that income inequality does not mean "equality" to some
BrotherIvan
Jan 2015
#74
yup - too many people are distracted by shiny numbers and not seeing the real picture
Skittles
Jan 2015
#91
Sorry this is happening for so many new hires. I can only speak for my family 4 re-employments
kelliekat44
Jan 2015
#47
BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NOT RAISING TH MINIMUM WAGE! so says the tinklebell wing.
pansypoo53219
Jan 2015
#66
And the president's a good man. He would never favor corporations over Americans
Doctor_J
Jan 2015
#68
Things are going to get even worse with Deep Learning AI threatening many service and admin jobs
AZ Progressive
Jan 2015
#104
Americans have been suckered into believing $15 an hour is a really good deal....
Spitfire of ATJ
Jan 2015
#109
Mission almost accomplished. Creating a cheap labor force right here in the US.
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#120