General Discussion

MADem

(135,425 posts)

81. Heh heh...

Wed Jan 14, 2015, 07:04 PM

Jan 2015

It doesn't matter if I haven't come down for or against if someone wants a fight--facts (or lack thereof) be damned!

I've been called 3rd Way so often that it ceases to be a "slur." I look at that charge as a shorthand way of saying "I can't refute your argument, so let me call you a name, the definition of which I really don't appreciate, but I've been given to understand that it's really, really baaaaad...." It's a bit sad, actually. This is such a good website and a lot of us would enjoy discussing these issues without the whole "So you must be...." and "Well, that that means you must support..." blah-blah-blah. I mean, hell, we're Democrats--we shouldn't be afraid of ideas, even ones that aren't terribly good. If we don't talk it through, hash it out, how will we learn?

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"there�s reason to believe the link between falling unemployment and rising wages has been severed" [View all] marmar Jan 2015 OP

No doubt about it. Our workers now have to compete with Bangladesh wages (and working conditions) Doctor_J Jan 2015 #1

And if the job can't go to Bangladesh, bring Bangladesh to the job via H1B. (nt) MH1 Jan 2015 #33

right. we still have osha though, at least until the multinationals use tpp Doctor_J Jan 2015 #69

This is what the TPP is all about - not raising up, but pushing all to the djean111 Jan 2015 #2

+1 Phlem Jan 2015 #6

Uhmm ... Actually, no ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #8

Specifically, in the TPP we are seeking... Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #11

There are no tariffs (that I know of) ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #14

Your points suggest an unfair off-shoring advantage Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #16

You are spot on. The TPP is indefensible, and I wish, in a way, TPP supporters djean111 Jan 2015 #20

LOL +1 Honest is the best policy! Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #21

There are no TPP supporters on this board ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #79

+ 1000 to that. Anyone with Wall St investments is a TPP supporter at this point. raouldukelives Jan 2015 #118

The US' position closes the current unfair off-shoring advantage ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #22

bernie sanders disagrees with you. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #34

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #42

It follows crystal clearly except for the willfully oblivious TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #89

count me as cynical, with cause to be. if you're not, you haven't been paying attention. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #94

by raising the wage floor for trade partner nations... Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #38

he's not soft peddling it. This is a hard sell of yet another far right abomination Doctor_J Jan 2015 #67

Providing information being left out of a discussion ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #80

The text you posted... sendero Jan 2015 #112

That is why it is termed "negotiating Objectives" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #114

Empty rhetoric... sendero Jan 2015 #115

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #116

There is no progress potential here... sendero Jan 2015 #117

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #119

The "US's position" is the position of the multinational corporate lobbyists. stillwaiting Jan 2015 #58

"Probably" ... "Surely" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #83

It does not say US wages will be the floor QuestionAlways Jan 2015 #108

The standard doesn't have to be as high as wages in the US ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #111

I am much too cynical to think all that is going to happen. djean111 Jan 2015 #12

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #15

Really? People already DO buy shrimp from Vietnam... Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #18

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #23

How did you get that from what I have written?...From your own words Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #40

I think you really should take a breath and re-read the thread ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #45

Why would you promote the TPP? Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #50

I'm not ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #56

Yes you are pointing to the labor and environment wish list Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #62

Surely, you understand that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #84

Not for everyone. djean111 Jan 2015 #19

I know people that eat only from their gardens. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #29

I don't buy shrimp from anywhere but local. grasswire Jan 2015 #27

I know people that eat only from their own gardens. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #31

and likely we'll see more of them. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #35

True, in fact ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #41

and people who used farmers markets used to be 'well outside' too. but now we have two ND-Dem Jan 2015 #93

And those of us that use farmers markets ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #98

I live in a poor, conservative town and a hell of a lot of people go to the farmers' market. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #99

Do you really think more people shop at the farmer's markets ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #101

no (though we don't have a 'mega' grocery store.) but being as 20 years ago we didn't even ND-Dem Jan 2015 #103

Yes ... actually, I do ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #105

it reads "affects trade or investment" Rilgin Jan 2015 #24

All of the language in the negotiating position of all of the partners ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #26

Who do you work for? upaloopa Jan 2015 #28

I work for a Major University ... why? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #39

I work for a Major University ... why? ... Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #43

Okay, now I'm convinced, as I indicated in post #45 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #48

I get the "context" Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #52

LOL ... I'm DONE! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #57

I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible to have a reasoned debate here on DU about this MADem Jan 2015 #55

Thanks for the "lecture" lol Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #61

Let me try to answer your questions. MADem Jan 2015 #71

Good response ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #76

Heh heh... MADem Jan 2015 #81

And how do we learn when ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #85

I know ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #73

What needs to happen is for people to pipe up the minute the details are known. MADem Jan 2015 #75

Yep ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #77

You are a PR person for the TPP upaloopa Jan 2015 #44

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #46

We are talking about the lives of working Americans upaloopa Jan 2015 #49

No ... you are SPECULATING about ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #54

As you are speculating about the impact of the TPP Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #59

You almost got my speculation correct ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #88

Ok, you clarified the points. Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #90

Yes, it's all speculation ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #97

I asked you to tell me what trade deal upaloopa Jan 2015 #60

"...build on the strong labor provisions in the most recent U.S. trade agreements"< Which destroyed jtuck004 Jan 2015 #100

More people available, and fewer people needed The2ndWheel Jan 2015 #3

He's Missing A Major Point ProfessorGAC Jan 2015 #4

I don't think he missed it all seeing the same point is right there in the blurb TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #86

Is part of it age related Johonny Jan 2015 #5

Certainly that is a contributing factor. Sherman A1 Jan 2015 #7

That is a very real part of it ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #9

Once again Reich nails it seabeckind Jan 2015 #10

Not Sure I Know Where You're Going ProfessorGAC Jan 2015 #17

huh? ND-Dem Jan 2015 #32

I Mean What Reich Means ProfessorGAC Jan 2015 #53

I don't know if it's you or me, but I'm having a hard time getting your meaning. "Demanders" ND-Dem Jan 2015 #95

Outsourcing results in factories closing when the entire function is outsourced seabeckind Jan 2015 #36

Well, Then I Disagree With Him ProfessorGAC Jan 2015 #51

K & R !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #13

Our workforce participation rate is at or close to historic lows. Calista241 Jan 2015 #25

+100. the economic system is broken. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #30

^^This!^^ BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #37

Meanwhile, TPP's proponents here say, "I don't care about inequality". closeupready Jan 2015 #63

It is so curious to me that income inequality does not mean "equality" to some BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #74

Completely agree. Generally, things are what they appear to be. closeupready Jan 2015 #113

yup - too many people are distracted by shiny numbers and not seeing the real picture Skittles Jan 2015 #91

excellent post marmar Jan 2015 #92

The labor participation rate is what you mean, I think bhikkhu Jan 2015 #102

the reason college rates are at record highs Skittles Jan 2015 #107

Sorry this is happening for so many new hires. I can only speak for my family 4 re-employments kelliekat44 Jan 2015 #47

Recommend. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2015 #64

Ross Perot warned us. Octafish Jan 2015 #65

BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NOT RAISING TH MINIMUM WAGE! so says the tinklebell wing. pansypoo53219 Jan 2015 #66

And the president's a good man. He would never favor corporations over Americans Doctor_J Jan 2015 #68

du rec. xchrom Jan 2015 #70

Plus.. anemic unionization. No champions for the workers. . . . . n/t annabanana Jan 2015 #72

The unemployment number is polticized BS Man from Pickens Jan 2015 #78

A majority of us... Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #82

Rec Ramses Jan 2015 #87

Why hasn't the Senate ratified SHAFTA* yet? ybbor Jan 2015 #96

Things are going to get even worse with Deep Learning AI threatening many service and admin jobs AZ Progressive Jan 2015 #104

:( sad kick&rec. n/t BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2015 #106

Americans have been suckered into believing $15 an hour is a really good deal.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2015 #109

it is called NAFTA, and Ross Perot spoke of it. nt silvershadow Jan 2015 #110

Mission almost accomplished. Creating a cheap labor force right here in the US. sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #120