General Discussion

Avalux

(35,015 posts)

82. Satirizing religion is not the same as race.

Thu Jan 15, 2015, 06:37 PM

Jan 2015

See - it's kind of like this. I can't choose my race; the color of my skin color. I was born that way. I can always decide for myself the religious doctrine I choose to follow. That is a choice.

I have to draw a line somewhere, and there it is.

What you are trying to equate can't be done.

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Let's see how intellectually honest the defenders of Charlie Hebdo are. [View all] philosslayer Jan 2015 OP

there is a grand canyon DonCoquixote Jan 2015 #1

Fine don't defend them upaloopa Jan 2015 #2

Yawn tabasco Jan 2015 #3

Fail nt Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #4

+1 hifiguy Jan 2015 #19

+1 major fail. 45 seconds of my life reading the OP. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2015 #180

I'm OFFENDED by this cilla4progress Jan 2015 #228

I'm half Jewish and if a cartoonist made a mockery of The Shoah I wouldn't kill him DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #5

agreed samsingh Jan 2015 #98

This is ridiculous. FIRST, the analogy of religion to race fails. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #6

+1 aikoaiko Jan 2015 #8

Nailed it oberliner Jan 2015 #9

Well done! zappaman Jan 2015 #10

So, let me understand your position philosslayer Jan 2015 #12

I would think that would be obvious oberliner Jan 2015 #20

Correct. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #23

Everything and everyone should be mocked and made fun of. randys1 Jan 2015 #32

+1 Desert805 Jan 2015 #149

jews are not a race. one can be jewish one second and not jewish the next second nt msongs Jan 2015 #85

I don't think the Nazis saw it that way BainsBane Jan 2015 #169

And your position is no one should ever mock religion? Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #87

When a jewish gunman slaughters a bunch of cartoonists... sibelian Jan 2015 #179

You would still have to defend the right HappyMe Jan 2015 #17

Re-read the OP. That is TOTALLY not what s/he asked. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #26

... hifiguy Jan 2015 #21

Exactly. JimDandy Jan 2015 #49

In the context of discussing freedom of speech Boreal Jan 2015 #182

Agreed. The whole point here is to accuse DUers of being either racists or hypocrites. arcane1 Jan 2015 #102

Amen, brother. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #104

Is it? Boreal Jan 2015 #183

"Race can't be changed; religion can" goldent Jan 2015 #166

I am a woman. Me wearing short sleeves can be highly offensive to people. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #172

I'm offended that so many here cilla4progress Jan 2015 #230

I really don't get why being able to change ones religion means mockery of people for ND-Dem Jan 2015 #206

I think people want to justify that their mocking of religion is ok goldent Jan 2015 #224

And if they'd come of age in the 50s they'd be mocking race and gender and loving religion. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #225

So the murder of 6 million Jews because of their religion was their fault onenote Jan 2015 #176

That's the most bullshit leap ever. Satire and criticism are not analogous with murder and genocide. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #177

lol Boreal Jan 2015 #184

You're the one that seems to think that the difference between racial hatred and religious hatred onenote Jan 2015 #202

Criticism. Satire. Mockery. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #215

your post is ridiculous too. you could say the same for most ideas; it's beside the point in a ND-Dem Jan 2015 #205

Then you should leave this site immediately. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #216

why, because you say so? you seem to have that little problem. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #226

If you don't defend the rights of people you don't like tkmorris Jan 2015 #7

And it is stunning Boreal Jan 2015 #185

yeah, that's why all the arabs are being arrested, cause people are so eager to defend the rights of ND-Dem Jan 2015 #227

Your hypothetical paper probably already exists. (FOX news?) So what? immoderate Jan 2015 #11

There is a difference philosslayer Jan 2015 #14

Trolling Muslims is very bad. Killing somebody for trolling Muslims is worse./NT DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #25

Trolling Muslims? oberliner Jan 2015 #47

Not into trolling Muslims or Jews or Blacks or Gays/NT DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #67

How about mocking Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Scientology, or Mormonism? oberliner Jan 2015 #71

How about criticizing hateful bigots no matter what religion they hide behind? Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #83

What criteria do we use to establish these subjective standards? immoderate Jan 2015 #39

I would be just as disgusted as I was by Charlie Hebdo... NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #13

Thank you philosslayer Jan 2015 #18

That's cool. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #30

Religion is comprised of hate actions which threaten my autonomy and human rights. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #33

It is of paramount importance that Hedbo continue with the exact type of commentary or randys1 Jan 2015 #36

Coming to this party a bit late Tansy_Gold Jan 2015 #81

You go, girl! A big 'AMEN' to this ^^^! Surya Gayatri Jan 2015 #209

I think you're missing a key point. bluesbassman Jan 2015 #80

I'm disgusted by Islam, Christianity, and Judaism's treatment of women. Arugula Latte Jan 2015 #93

It appears that most people haven't really read what you wrote. cpwm17 Jan 2015 #125

I am not "disgusted" by the actions of a left wing publication, no matter Desert805 Jan 2015 #151

I would stand with them... brooklynite Jan 2015 #15

Trolling Muslims or Jews or African Americans or Gays, et cetera Is a very bad look... DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #16

Religions can and should be vociferously criticized oberliner Jan 2015 #48

When religions attack gay people are they 'trolling' us? Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #101

Of course if someone is disrespecting you, you have the right to disrespect him or her in return. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #152

It is interesting that you equate criticism of a person who claims to believe in Jesus to 'crapping Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #174

I so agree with what you've said Boreal Jan 2015 #187

There is a difference in crapping on Christ and crapping on this or that Christian DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #188

Thread didn't go quite the way you'd though, eh? LanternWaste Jan 2015 #22

Oh quite the contrary philosslayer Jan 2015 #27

You're finally beginning to sound honest and sincere... LanternWaste Jan 2015 #28

Religion is a chosen belief system. Arugula Latte Jan 2015 #31

You had no idea? oberliner Jan 2015 #51

I personally don't think mockery is a progressive value philosslayer Jan 2015 #56

Mockery isn't a "value" at all. It's an art. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #60

Are you new to DU? oberliner Jan 2015 #61

Humor is one of the sharpest weapons against harmful and repressive ideologies. Arugula Latte Jan 2015 #79

Oh, you've missed out on so much. Dr. Strange Jan 2015 #175

Great examples! nt cyberswede Jan 2015 #192

Now you're being deliberately obtuse. arcane1 Jan 2015 #55

Whyever would you think otherwise? Codeine Jan 2015 #158

Let's see how intellectually honest the attackers of Charlie Hebdo are. KamaAina Jan 2015 #24

That's somewhat disingenuos when you look at what the Nazis did. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #34

Piss poor analogy. Here's a better one: MohRokTah Jan 2015 #29

That is a much better analogy. Will wait for the OP's answer... Desert805 Jan 2015 #153

Thread win. nt Codeine Jan 2015 #164

There are some things I find very offensive. LiberalAndProud Jan 2015 #35

I get what you are saying, if Charlie Hebdo drew derogatory pictures of blacks dilby Jan 2015 #37

Huh DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #42

They are within the context of French sociery. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #53

Excellent point philosslayer Jan 2015 #58

There are three separate issues here CJCRANE Jan 2015 #66

This is grotesquely stupid. sibelian Jan 2015 #181

Bottom line -- If you don't like a particular controversial publication, don't buy or read it Blue_Tires Jan 2015 #38

Absolutely I would defend Nate Forrest to publish........ RationalMan Jan 2015 #40

False equivalence. Your example is an invested interest. CH is uninvested in a "right and wrong." nolabear Jan 2015 #41

This message was self-deleted by its author closeupready Jan 2015 #43

Religious belief is a choice. Race isn't...nt SidDithers Jan 2015 #44

Does Nate Forrest have the right to publish? Absolutely? Bonx Jan 2015 #45

Is this what they do all day over at Discussionist? (n/t) Iggo Jan 2015 #46

I love that his detractors always make sure to say.. Inkfreak Jan 2015 #50

They have the right to publish, just like other people have the right Retrograde Jan 2015 #52

Your premise is intellectually dishonest from the start. arcane1 Jan 2015 #54

The titles of the publications are irrelevant to the premise philosslayer Jan 2015 #57

Yet you took the effort to begin your post with a false comparison to the KKK n/t arcane1 Jan 2015 #59

You're avoiding answering his question BainsBane Jan 2015 #64

no, it doesn't. reread the op and the stupid question being asked. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #68

Okay, sort of. I think the point is BainsBane Jan 2015 #69

That wasn't the question. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #72

The question was would they champion it's republication on dozens of magazines BainsBane Jan 2015 #78

Yes, people will typically support ideas they support and not those they don't PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #94

I don't see how this is such a high concept for some. Rex Jan 2015 #97

People go to great lengths to avoid admitting that BainsBane Jan 2015 #126

You got it Boreal Jan 2015 #189

Thank you BainsBane Jan 2015 #190

Been beating my head against that same wall Boreal Jan 2015 #191

It's flamebait for the sole purpose of inventing reasons to bash DUers arcane1 Jan 2015 #70

I disagree BainsBane Jan 2015 #76

If that were the point of the OP, I would agree. arcane1 Jan 2015 #92

Quite the contrary philosslayer Jan 2015 #106

Apparently BainsBane Jan 2015 #128

The OP is a DUer BainsBane Jan 2015 #197

I support his right to publish BainsBane Jan 2015 #62

Wow...we agree on something. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #111

I thought the same thing when I read your earlier response BainsBane Jan 2015 #112

Oh, you are ADORABLE!! Coventina Jan 2015 #63

Clever, too! Don't forget clever! arcane1 Jan 2015 #74

The ACLU defended the KKK. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #65

DOH!!! Slam Dunk nt Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #75

but but but Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #118

that's what I picture every time this info is posted: Desert805 Jan 2015 #154

Now now... countryjake Jan 2015 #170

Yes, indeed. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #218

Muslim mayor of Rotterdam tells Islamists to 'pack your bags' and 'f**k off' on TV Go Vols Jan 2015 #73

Good for him. 840high Jan 2015 #178

Yes. isobar Jan 2015 #77

Satirizing religion is not the same as race. Avalux Jan 2015 #82

Flip it around- someone bombs an abortion clinic and right wingers are "bombs are bad BUT" Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #84

Umm BainsBane Jan 2015 #89

Um, No, I don't think so. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #103

No, I think you've decided that if someone is killed for publishing something BainsBane Jan 2015 #105

Is anyone here keeping their mouths shut? Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #107

Because this OP and mine are victim blaming? BainsBane Jan 2015 #110

"my little group"? Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #115

Yes, your little group. zappaman Jan 2015 #121

Okay, that made me laugh. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #124

That request I can grant. BainsBane Jan 2015 #123

Wait...so people don't have the right to kill others over their own opinion? Rex Jan 2015 #90

So you don't really believe in freedom of speech. Okay, thanks for letting the rest of us know. Rex Jan 2015 #86

Unrec. FSogol Jan 2015 #88

What is the parallel here? DemocraticWing Jan 2015 #91

I second your every word. Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #100

excellent thought provoking post k/r nationalize the fed Jan 2015 #95

This is absurd. Here's a real world, highly applicable comapre and contrast opportunity. Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #96

Thank you. The OP's answer will be interesting. Desert805 Jan 2015 #155

I want to understand why it is that you think they're wrong... countryjake Jan 2015 #99

Its very simple philosslayer Jan 2015 #109

Seriously? PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #113

Well if the rules changed, someone didn't tell me philosslayer Jan 2015 #116

It's not Islamaphobia. Or bigotry. PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #122

Yep. And the excuse for their bigotry, hatred and poor treatment prayin4rain Jan 2015 #117

Okay, please tell me what you consider vulgar or mocking about this... countryjake Jan 2015 #114

There are testicles on his head! zappaman Jan 2015 #147

No, you must be doubling down on your intellectual honesty. countryjake Jan 2015 #160

Never read a National Lampoon! zappaman Jan 2015 #171

A lot of people agree with Ken Ham that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #127

If one person or 1.6 billion people think they have the right to murder a woman... countryjake Jan 2015 #134

utter crap Skittles Jan 2015 #198

Yes. Throd Jan 2015 #108

Your post fails to take into account that you can defend Charlie and disagree with his message Glassunion Jan 2015 #119

Charlie Hebdo's Biggest Problem Isn't racism-It's Punching Down--Western Society at Its Best & Worst KoKo Jan 2015 #163

That's a bad analogy; how about: someone publishes a cartoon of a drooling Ronald Reagan muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #120

Use two examples of ideas people agree with BainsBane Jan 2015 #131

Maybe you and the thread starter miss the point: many think some Islamic attitudes need criticism muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #136

Some attitudes are not an entire religion BainsBane Jan 2015 #139

And Charlie Hebdo doesn't attack an entire people muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #141

Touch�! n/t countryjake Jan 2015 #144

Many Muslims don't see it that way BainsBane Jan 2015 #194

"they don't see it that way" is not a sufficient excuse for giving a pass to bad attitudes muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #208

Is that why they depict Muslims Union Scribe Jan 2015 #200

They're cartoons - they depict loads of people as big-nosed muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #207

That's different because it is punching at a 45.01 degree angle. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #220

There is no constitutional right to going through life unoffended Warpy Jan 2015 #129

Wow. Has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen. HERVEPA Jan 2015 #130

Reading through this thread it just stuns me.... Whiskeytide Jan 2015 #132

Bingo! +1 Glassunion Jan 2015 #143

+2 Kaleva Jan 2015 #161

Exactly. Lex Jan 2015 #173

This venerable old guy literally wrote the book on 'another's right to say something...' Surya Gayatri Jan 2015 #214

I suspect ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #133

I don't think so BainsBane Jan 2015 #135

Publish speech that insults human dignity. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #138

Free speech is honoring human dignity. prayin4rain Jan 2015 #137

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #140

Left Wing publications Desert805 Jan 2015 #156

Any speech that undermines human dignity... Whiskeytide Jan 2015 #146

Some context might be found in the fact that Rick Warren called gay people pedophiles who are Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #167

That's what it looks like to me as well. Union Scribe Jan 2015 #199

Race =/= Belief Codeine Jan 2015 #142

me.... mike_c Jan 2015 #145

The great man is making an unexpected comeback (Voltaire, that is...) Surya Gayatri Jan 2015 #212

so much utter fail in so few words... Desert805 Jan 2015 #148

More like apples to Jeeps PeaceNikki Jan 2015 #150

"damn right, i'd put those cartoons on the front page of every paper in the world" cherokeeprogressive Jan 2015 #157

Not very. ismnotwasm Jan 2015 #159

The OP bases its argument on a KKK rag selling out all over the world DFW Jan 2015 #162

In the end, the fact is that the one true punchline of good satire is the incredulous reaction of Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #165

There's a lot of speech I think is stupid and wrong-headed Lex Jan 2015 #168

We can dislike someone's speech and still defend that they have a right to say it. Starry Messenger Jan 2015 #186

Sure - I have no problem with them doubling down in response to a violent attack. cyberswede Jan 2015 #193

The people on here are being hypocritical. Everyone has their touchy subject. liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #195

Best response on this thread! goldent Jan 2015 #204

Yawn. First, learn what an analogy is and then post a proper one. REP Jan 2015 #196

Get over it. ohheckyeah Jan 2015 #201

The kkk is itself a terrorist organization bluestateguy Jan 2015 #203

Let's hypothesis that all the historical evidence about the kkk (edited) Cerridwen Jan 2015 #210

Yes and Yes LostOne4Ever Jan 2015 #211

212 replies and 5 recs Skittles Jan 2015 #213

Oh, so all of this is a popularity contest? philosslayer Jan 2015 #219

LOL are you for real? Skittles Jan 2015 #221

Really? philosslayer Jan 2015 #222

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Skittles Jan 2015 #223

Exactly. nt ucrdem Jan 2015 #217

Reading through the replies as always, interesting, a good op, read some interesting responses, R AuntPatsy Jan 2015 #229

DU has become extremely anti-faith Prophet 451 Jan 2015 #231