What do DUers that defend mocking religious beliefs think of these pictures?

[onenote]

218. Since I started it, here's my response

Last edited Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

First, I appreciate the fact that most of the comments here have remained civil.

Second, the reason I made the post was to provoke a discussion of religion and its place in the Democratic party and the way it is characterized and discussed on DU.

Like many (probably most), I was attracted to, and have remained a long time member of DU, because one of its primary stated goals is "Helping elect more Democrats to political office at all levels of American government"

Thus, I have a tendency to evaluate comments on this board based on whether I think that they help or hurt the election of Democrats. In that regard, as someone (like many others here) who has knocked on doors, manned phone banks, etc., I believe that making the Democratic Party (and DU) a welcoming, rather than hostile, place for those who share some of our ideals, even if they don't share them all, is important.

The problem I have with mocking a person or group's belief in "God" or the rituals by which they reflect that belief is that, intended or not, it is an attack on a person or group's identity. Yes, unlike race or gender, or sexual orientation, religion is a choice. But that doesn't mean that it isn't a part of the identity of the people who choose to have and/or affiliate with a particular religious creed. Just as being a Democrat is not only my choice, but also part of my identity (and, I suspect, it is a part of the identities of many others here).

So when I see posts mocking people or groups over their choice to believe what they believe or worship how they worship, I see it as an attack on that person's identity. Republicans mock the Democratic Part by calling it the Democrat Party and most of us dislike that intensely. Why? Because it is a stupid, disrespectful act mocking something that is part of our identity. I can have discussions with people whose policy views are not identical to mine if I believe that, despite our disagreements, the person who disagrees with me affords me a modicum of respect. If they start out the conversation saying "the Democrat" position ….", I am far less likely to engage.

People who identify themselves as Democrats do not make up the majority of voters in this country. To win elections (remember, one of the main goals of DU), we need to attract the support -- the enthusiastic support to the extent possible -- of Democrats whose views may differ from ours on certain things, such as whether there is a God, whether religion is inherently bad or good, and so on. People who visit this site whose support we want (and need) can (and frankly should) be troubled by the sense that they are not entitled to respect because of a choice they have made that is a part of their identity.

Now, let me be clear: I'm not saying that one should turn a blind eye to actions taken in the name of religion with which we disagree. I'm not even saying that those positions shouldn't be mocked. I mock opponents of same sex marriage (to pick one issue) all the time. But I try not to mock the identity of the person taking that position -- just the position itself. Bad things have been done in the name of religion (not just to those who don't believe in God, but to those whose belief differs, sometimes in what seem to be rather inconsequential ways). But bad things have been done -- and bad positions supported -- by people who are not religious, not believers in God. Those actions and those people are deserving of our condemnation and our criticism. But even if they defend their positions and actions on religious grounds, mocking religion generally seems to miss the point since there are many who reach the exact opposite positions, who take the exact opposition actions, also citing their religious beliefs. The people in the pictures I posted, for example.

Ultimately, I don't expect to change the behavior of those who mock religion here, although I do question how such mockery serves what I think it is the common purpose of the majority of those participating on this board -- electing Democrats (and persuading, through reason, rather than insult, those Democrats to support liberal/progressive policy outcomes).

A couple of final examples. I have friends who are Greens. I disagree with their choice to support Green candidates over Democratic candidates -- a choice they make because they find some part of the Democratic agenda and/or performance lacking compared to what they see in the Green party. I debate with these friends every election cycle that they should vote for the Democratic candidate. But I never mock their choice to identify themselves as Greens. I simply try to make them feel that they have kindred spirits in the Democratic party even if there are matters on which we don't agree in terms of priorities or policies. Similarly, I have a friend who is both a Democrat and a Mormon. During the last election, I cringed when I saw the mocking directed at Mormonism and its rituals. Notwithstanding the fact that I don't share Mormonism's religious creed and would never consider participating in its particular rituals, my friend's choice is exactly that -- his choice. And I've been proud to share phone bank duties with him on behalf of Democratic candidates. To mock him -- and even worse -- to somehow give him the impression that Democrats are not welcoming of people with his religious identity -- would be counterproductive to my efforts to get him to become more, rather than less, involved in Democratic politics.

Peace.