General Discussion

jen63

(813 posts)

282. He didn't have to attend BUD/s

Wed Jan 21, 2015, 02:34 PM

Jan 2015

as UDT were already considered SEALS. UDT is one of the most dangerous jobs in the Navy. I think that he's proved his worth. What do you think BUD/s is? Seems you need to do some research into the UDT and how the Navy classifies them. Up until recently, the fact that the UDT and SEALS missions were denied; especially Team 6, shows how ignorant you are as to what these Sailors actually do. I would suggest some research on your part. Just because Ventura didn't "serve" in Vietnam, doesn't mean that he actually didn't. It's called plausible deniability. They are heavily involved in blackops and until OBL was killed, you didn't hear much about the SEALS, except for the fact that they were the most elite fighting force in our military. Keep up the lies, a la Chris Kyle. Any one who believes that the government sent him to pick off looters after Katrina, needs to have their tinfoil hats examined.

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The demonization of Chris Kyle [View all] B2G Jan 2015 OP

never mind that the troops are all volunteer... n/t 2naSalit Jan 2015 #1

From what I've heard and read about the guy he seemed to take joy in killing. He was certainly not Erose999 Jan 2015 #2

I think he demonized himself. When you write how much 'fun' killing was, that sinkingfeeling Jan 2015 #3

Universal soldier earthside Jan 2015 #4

written by buffy sainte-marie spanone Jan 2015 #295

Pretty much it's his claim to have killed people in the New Orleans Katrina aftermath. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #5

And the people he killed in Dallas trying to jack his truck. Initech Jan 2015 #131

It's no doubt he was murdered by the government for leaking that bit of info Reter Jan 2015 #275

No, he was killed by a veteran suffering from PTSD. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #277

I doubt the official story Reter Jan 2015 #278

I don't doubt it at all. eom MohRokTah Jan 2015 #279

A burst of hot air blows the closet door open whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #6

Too true! n/t sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #11

Chris Kyle made himself into a demon Dawson Leery Jan 2015 #7

I haven't read his autobiography but I Ghost of Tom Joad Jan 2015 #132

Kyle is your typical redneck. Dawson Leery Jan 2015 #292

thank you MFM008 Jan 2015 #159

some people see enemies everywhere...and CK is easy pickings. ileus Jan 2015 #8

Yeah, like the ones who killed all those Iraqis. JackRiddler Jan 2015 #57

Kyle took the veteran who killed him to a shooting range to help him over PSTD. That's stupid. Hoyt Jan 2015 #9

If he wasn't "American Sniper" and an icon JackRiddler Jan 2015 #58

One wonders what actually happened there; like, if kyle and his friend used ridicule and shame ND-Dem Jan 2015 #192

Would not be surprised if they bullied him. I think he is going to trial shortly. Hoyt Jan 2015 #199

I think the CIA had him killed Reter Jan 2015 #276

I don't know anything about him walkingman Jan 2015 #10

+100000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2naSalit Jan 2015 #187

Seth Rogen compared the movie to Inglorious Basterds. Initech Jan 2015 #290

A Navy SEAL that thinks like an elite warrior, evidently braddy Jan 2015 #12

+1 Saucepan of Kerbango Jan 2015 #47

And any civilians he might have killed edhopper Jan 2015 #51

He did his job Saucepan of Kerbango Jan 2015 #54

As a sniper, why would he be killing anyone other than handpicked targets? He wasn't braddy Jan 2015 #55

That's exactly what he was doing Saucepan of Kerbango Jan 2015 #64

You misunderstand, my point was that as a professional sniper, he was handpicking braddy Jan 2015 #73

absolutely correct Saucepan of Kerbango Jan 2015 #80

It was not his job to kill civilians in New Orleans after Katrina as he claimed to have done notadmblnd Jan 2015 #134

Is there any evidence of this? delta17 Jan 2015 #143

He wrote in his book that he killed people in LA. notadmblnd Jan 2015 #144

He might be a liar. delta17 Jan 2015 #156

Well, Kyle's estate has ALREADY been ruled LIABLE. . . DinahMoeHum Jan 2015 #161

ok hes a liar MFM008 Jan 2015 #163

When did I say it was? delta17 Jan 2015 #165

The revelation for me was how he had to beat his chest about what he did. Demit Jan 2015 #133

That is what gets me. Jamastiene Jan 2015 #181

or MFM008 Jan 2015 #162

I saw this the other day. atreides1 Jan 2015 #13

Every war produces our top sniper/snipers, that isn't something new. braddy Jan 2015 #16

Since when did American snipers become something bad? Maedhros Jan 2015 #68

^^this^^ truebluegreen Jan 2015 #78

One would think that the "Liberals" on this board would understand this small point, Maedhros Jan 2015 #85

Amen. nt truebluegreen Jan 2015 #88

I don't necessarily see any sniper hero worship. NuclearDem Jan 2015 #91

I understand the psychological training that allows young men to kill in war. Maedhros Jan 2015 #101

You make an important point. Jamastiene Jan 2015 #182

He wanted to go to war in the first place and tried repeatedly to get in elite service branches. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #200

They aint Liberals tkmorris Jan 2015 #145

Hence the scare quotes. Maedhros Jan 2015 #146

Seems like those types are half the board now. What happened to the old DU? ND-Dem Jan 2015 #202

The question is when did American snipers become something to demonize? braddy Jan 2015 #79

Who's demonizing all snipers? Gormy Cuss Jan 2015 #87

I don't think that Chris Kyle, born 1974 in Texas, died in 2013 in Texas, and with braddy Jan 2015 #95

Yeah, it's apparent he was Commander McBragg. Gormy Cuss Jan 2015 #98

If you knew anything about military serivice, you would know that this elite Navy SEAL and braddy Jan 2015 #111

Incorrect DesertDawg Jan 2015 #122

Nonsense, official kills are official, Kyle's actual kills, and many snipers actual kills are braddy Jan 2015 #171

Try Again DesertDawg Jan 2015 #193

I'm sorry that you heard it from someone, but it isn't the way it is, let's look at "White Feather" braddy Jan 2015 #198

"the beloved marine sniper" -- fucking gag me. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #203

Carlos Hathcock is a highly revered Marine, not only for his famous skill and courage, but for his braddy Jan 2015 #207

only psychos revere snipers, or designate them as "beloved". ND-Dem Jan 2015 #208

I realize that is intended as a personal insult, but your ignorance of the man and his importance, braddy Jan 2015 #209

it wasn't intended as an insult at all. Snipers are not "beloved". Mothers are beloved; children ND-Dem Jan 2015 #214

Who said it wasn't? Gormy Cuss Jan 2015 #126

Well the records would prove the most relevant points, he was a Navy SEAL, an braddy Jan 2015 #176

You can accept his military record as a Navy SEAL and an elite sniper, and braddy Jan 2015 #288

Snipers used to be demonized regularly Matrosov Jan 2015 #286

Actually from the Revolutionary war, the Civil war and more, snipers were honored and praised. braddy Jan 2015 #287

every death in Iraq at the hands of a U.S. soldier is "something bad" ? oberliner Jan 2015 #148

YES. polly7 Jan 2015 #153

What about Zarqawi? oberliner Jan 2015 #166

He traveled to Iraq to fight what he saw as an illegal, immoral invasion polly7 Jan 2015 #265

You see what I'm trying to do and it's pathetic? oberliner Jan 2015 #266

Just answer my questions. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #267

And btw ..... who are you, or was anyone else, to judge who deserved killing and polly7 Jan 2015 #269

It was all from a poisoned well, and you can see what wonderful results it's had so far. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #204

+1 mike_c Jan 2015 #168

Exactly! mountain grammy Jan 2015 #180

and, he loved it. according to his own book. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #195

Depends. Are they plying their trade in war zones or New Orleans? n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2015 #294

+1 whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #19

Thank you. JackRiddler Jan 2015 #59

'He was only doing his job' - 'we were just following orders' sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #14

He enjoyed killing and he was a braggart and a liar. Jamastiene Jan 2015 #15

Ventura never served on a SEAL team, he was UDT. braddy Jan 2015 #18

Which was the precursor to the SEALs. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2015 #25

Sorry but UDT and SEALs were two different units that existed simultaneously, UDT disbanded in 1983 braddy Jan 2015 #40

It's a distinction without a difference. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2015 #43

LOL, so UDT and SEALs were just two different names for the same guys for 21 years and braddy Jan 2015 #49

... ND-Dem Jan 2015 #211

Two different units, that is why they had SEALs and UDT, and why you posted that in 1983 braddy Jan 2015 #216

All the first seal teams were UDTs. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #238

You really are ignorant of these things, and evidently aren't even reading the sources braddy Jan 2015 #240

well, prove it, oh expert on all things military (cough) ND-Dem Jan 2015 #242

Why don't you read your own sources and use some common sense. braddy Jan 2015 #246

Here's what my source says, and yours is different. So what's yours from? Why not link it? ND-Dem Jan 2015 #249

Go look at your number 3 on your sources you posted to me. braddy Jan 2015 #252

"In 1962, President Kennedy established SEAL Teams ONE and TWO from the existing UDT Teams ND-Dem Jan 2015 #254

I don't deny a direct link and keep telling you that is completely natural and typical, braddy Jan 2015 #270

You are correct. jen63 Jan 2015 #241

Ventura tried to pass himself off as a "hunter of men" in Vietnam as a Navy SEAL, he braddy Jan 2015 #251

Contact the Navy jen63 Jan 2015 #255

We have already covered that Ventura has backed off his attempts to portray himself as a SEAL braddy Jan 2015 #271

Kyle is a proven jen63 Jan 2015 #280

LOL, Kyle is proven one of the greatest Navy SEALs ever, Ventura is a proven fake Vietnam vet who braddy Jan 2015 #281

He didn't have to attend BUD/s jen63 Jan 2015 #282

Seal team 6 didn't exist and SEALs, Rangers, and Special Forces, were not denied recognition for braddy Jan 2015 #284

There is no difference between UDT and SEALS nt jen63 Jan 2015 #285

You can't argue such details with DU's new "liberal" military fetishists n/t whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #72

Ain't it the truth? Sheldon Cooper Jan 2015 #76

I was staying out of this sniper thing because at first I thought it was just people who thought braddy Jan 2015 #90

You forgot the bit about Kyle alleging he killed American civilians during a disaster. LanternWaste Jan 2015 #129

He also lied about jen63 Jan 2015 #245

talking through your hat. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #213

What are you babbling about? whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #228

And yet... DesertDawg Jan 2015 #130

Ventura never attempted the additional 26-week SEAL Qualification Training. braddy Jan 2015 #190

LOL, two differnt units, two different TYPE of units, that is why SEALs were created and braddy Jan 2015 #173

"All SEALs came from the Navy's Underwater Demolition Teams...." ND-Dem Jan 2015 #215

All UDT members are considered jen63 Jan 2015 #247

tell it to the resident expert... ND-Dem Jan 2015 #250

And Kyle lied about his encounter with Ventura. n/t Gormy Cuss Jan 2015 #81

Technically true, but they were SEALs later. Jamastiene Jan 2015 #167

No UDT remained UDT, SEALs were a different unit, although some UDT did try out for SEALs, or become braddy Jan 2015 #174

Kyle still lied about him and defamed him, Jamastiene Jan 2015 #178

That would have relevance if I was arguing that Ventura didn't win an 8-2 defamation suit. braddy Jan 2015 #184

All the first SEALs came from UDT. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #217

UDT are considered SEALS jen63 Jan 2015 #248

That's how I feel about the guy, too. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2015 #26

+1 n/t tammywammy Jan 2015 #29

I do not understand the mind of someone who would volunteer to be a sniper. MineralMan Jan 2015 #17

Not everyone is suited for being a sniper, partly because of the intimacy and personal braddy Jan 2015 #23

My opinion remains the same. MineralMan Jan 2015 #31

I understand that, having known such men myself. braddy Jan 2015 #52

"because of the intimacy and personal responsibility of the kill" delrem Jan 2015 #201

The words describe a sniper's kill, the intimacy of the scoped target cleary seen and identified. braddy Jan 2015 #206

it's war porn. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #219

That sounds like something you need to work out yourself, but to normal people, it isn't porn. braddy Jan 2015 #221

The words and description are yours. nt delrem Jan 2015 #256

war porn, indeed. earlier on they call another sniper "beloved". and can't see how weird and ND-Dem Jan 2015 #218

Yes, they're betrayed by their language. delrem Jan 2015 #257

Sorry, but Carlos Hathcock is a beloved figure to Marines, as is Kyle, braddy Jan 2015 #272

Lee Child summed it up succinccly through Jack Reacher Brother Buzz Jan 2015 #27

Actually there's a fifth type tularetom Jan 2015 #100

That's what this dumb draftee thought back in the day Brother Buzz Jan 2015 #113

He should have just not shot anyone and let the insurgents kill Americans. dilby Jan 2015 #20

Americans should have never been there Bandit Jan 2015 #77

^^^ RiverLover Jan 2015 #263

Well, then you are not reading very well. Hissyspit Jan 2015 #139

yeah; it was illegal, we started it, but we sure don't want any americans dying, even though they ND-Dem Jan 2015 #220

Fuck him. Iggo Jan 2015 #21

I do not view him as a hero B2G Jan 2015 #22

He either lied about murdering 30 people after Katrina... Iggo Jan 2015 #28

This is the guy who claimed to kill 30 innocent people in New Orleans? NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #61

Yes tammywammy Jan 2015 #69

Either way, it doesn't sound HappyMe Jan 2015 #99

+1000 Hissyspit Jan 2015 #140

My father... DesertDawg Jan 2015 #65

+100 JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #93

Exactly my point. Jamastiene Jan 2015 #169

Sadly DesertDawg Jan 2015 #196

none of the servicemen i've know (WW2-Korea) ever wanted to talk about it, at least to me. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #222

you don't view someone who said he killed 30-some people during Katrina as a Satan? CreekDog Jan 2015 #82

A Satan - no. A liar - yes. ManiacJoe Jan 2015 #205

I don't think you know what you believe LordGlenconner Jan 2015 #104

Not demonizing him. I don't have a problem with military snipers, or TwilightGardener Jan 2015 #24

He's been proven in a court of law to be a liar BainsBane Jan 2015 #30

Yes i find it disgusting as well. Nyc72dem Jan 2015 #32

I don't care that he was a sniper tammywammy Jan 2015 #41

I forgot about the gas station story. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2015 #45

Kyle's lies about Ventura. tammywammy Jan 2015 #48

Okay, got it. Sheldon Cooper Jan 2015 #74

This is a long article, Jamastiene Jan 2015 #259

You don't become a sniper involuntarily madokie Jan 2015 #33

You do realize that snipers also protect the president B2G Jan 2015 #34

No comparison madokie Jan 2015 #37

Wow, so you could have been a SEAL and a sniper, but you just didn't want to, uh, OK. braddy Jan 2015 #44

I didn't say I could have been a Seal madokie Jan 2015 #71

You claimed that you could have been a sniper, presumably a Special Operations sniper braddy Jan 2015 #83

he didn't say anything like that. do you have a problem with english? it would explain why you ND-Dem Jan 2015 #223

You keep wanting to personalize this, Carlos Hathcock is beloved by Marines, are you a braddy Jan 2015 #225

snipers aren't "beloved" by anyone except psychos; so unless you have a problem with the english ND-Dem Jan 2015 #227

Now you are just making up things, that clearly isn't true and it never has been. braddy Jan 2015 #231

He was a liar. alarimer Jan 2015 #35

+1 lunasun Jan 2015 #127

How do you know what happened philosslayer Jan 2015 #212

Interpreting mere criticism as demonization illustrates the first critical flaw in an irrational... LanternWaste Jan 2015 #36

An irrational premise is necessary here. JackRiddler Jan 2015 #62

Sounds like "just following orders" to me. Lex Jan 2015 #38

My thoughts edhopper Jan 2015 #53

He was a disgusting human being who reveled in killing innocents. Arugula Latte Jan 2015 #39

no players ... no game. GeorgeGist Jan 2015 #42

Exactly. HappyMe Jan 2015 #50

LOL you know very little about him JonLP24 Jan 2015 #46

"Doing his job." JackRiddler Jan 2015 #56

most of the movie haters haven't even seen it... lame54 Jan 2015 #60

I did see it. JackRiddler Jan 2015 #67

why did you go pay to see this movie... lame54 Jan 2015 #92

Please read. Thank you. JackRiddler Jan 2015 #115

My father-in-law was a medic. hunter Jan 2015 #63

Well, he's hardly Alvin York or Audie Murphy... Tom Ripley Jan 2015 #66

The man was clearly a hero, his 2 Silver Stars, and 5 Bronze medals, and a massive enemy reward braddy Jan 2015 #70

Sorry, I didn't mean to disturb anyone's fanboy pleasures (Confession: since I am very fond of... Tom Ripley Jan 2015 #86

And there you have it edhopper Jan 2015 #89

The Silver Star is for heroism, yes. braddy Jan 2015 #96

So was the Iron Cross edhopper Jan 2015 #118

Who knows what that is supposed to mean, Americans don't award the Iron Cross for valor, we braddy Jan 2015 #175

Were theGerman soldiers edhopper Jan 2015 #185

I wore a German award on my uniform, jump wings earned with a German Special Operations unit, braddy Jan 2015 #186

Nevermind edhopper Jan 2015 #188

You don't have to personally agree with how the military designates heroism. braddy Jan 2015 #191

you're the big military expert and you don't know what an iron cross is? i don't believe you and ND-Dem Jan 2015 #232

LOL, you are spinning out of control. braddy Jan 2015 #234

says the person who finds snipers "beloved". ND-Dem Jan 2015 #236

You can fight on the wrong side and still be a hero.. EX500rider Jan 2015 #117

Well edhopper Jan 2015 #120

"And under your criteria, the Charlie Hedbo killers could be seen as heroes." EX500rider Jan 2015 #124

I was talking about Kyle edhopper Jan 2015 #137

Don't forget his phil89 Jan 2015 #94

Seriously? That's what makes someone a "hero" to you? hunter Jan 2015 #97

We can have our own definitions of hero, but the military is in charge of their braddy Jan 2015 #108

It's perfectly possible to get a bunch of medals Hissyspit Jan 2015 #141

medals don't = hero. and the police give rewards for helping find murderers too. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #226

LOL, you don't have to define him as a hero, nor do I, nor does my barber, but the military braddy Jan 2015 #233

The nazis gave medals for heroism too; they didn't mean much. Better a child than a war hard-on. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #235

The Nazi soldiers and death camp guards were just "doing their jobs" too dissentient Jan 2015 #75

I don't get it either. Why all the hate for someone who clipped 30 people post-Katrina? tenderfoot Jan 2015 #84

His Katrina claim certainly endears him to the Fox "News" mob. Dawson Leery Jan 2015 #112

The world is a way better place without that piece of shit in it. Iggo Jan 2015 #135

This has been debunked jen63 Jan 2015 #253

That may well be but there's plenty of evidence that Mr. Kyle had some issues... tenderfoot Jan 2015 #260

If Chris Kyle was really in NO, then I'm really an astronaut who killed 30 aliens on Mars. chrisa Jan 2015 #274

So you knew Chris personally? Sounds as if you did. Avalux Jan 2015 #102

You can do a lot better for heroes than a compulsive liar LordGlenconner Jan 2015 #103

Yeah, but how about that badass heroic kill count?!? n/t whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #106

Oh yeah, the "rock n' roll" sniper LordGlenconner Jan 2015 #109

Yup whatchamacallit Jan 2015 #110

In my experience, the REAL heroes tend not to be self-aggrandizing liars. riqster Jan 2015 #105

+1 Dawson Leery Jan 2015 #114

You go to war once Runningdawg Jan 2015 #107

he did his job. ellenfl Jan 2015 #116

after nuremburg, following orders is no longer a defense nt msongs Jan 2015 #119

You're defending a known liar who claimed to enjoyed killing abelenkpe Jan 2015 #121

Chris Kyle, by all accounts, was a compulsive liar, braggart, and sociopath. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2015 #123

"Just Following Orders" and "I didn't know" were found lacking at Nuremberg. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #125

He's the current face of an unpopular war. Inkfreak Jan 2015 #128

Um, no. Hissyspit Jan 2015 #142

This message was self-deleted by its author Inkfreak Jan 2015 #177

he's convicted by his own testimony. he murdered americans too. he loved killing. he loved war. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #230

He was mentally ill. That's clear to me. Tatiana Jan 2015 #136

Oh, give me a fucking break... Hissyspit Jan 2015 #138

+++ Starry Messenger Jan 2015 #189

seemed like a lying sociopath to me. wildbilln864 Jan 2015 #147

DU, in direct contrast to its collective self-image, brooks no paradox or nuance. Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #149

No paradox, complexity, context, nuance allowed! Kyle was a victim/hero of a false war AND he was evil. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #150

I don't agree that he was evil. And of course, that makes ME evil. Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #152

I take back "evil". Ill? Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #154

I think at worst the guy was a loudmouth. Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #155

Clint Eastwood is the one that should be critiqued for plagiarizing Call of Duty. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #157

If COD had the sniping spots Kyle had, I'd never stop playing it. nt Dreamer Tatum Jan 2015 #164

according to himself, he killed americans during katrina. ptsd doesn't excuse murder. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #229

Excellent post. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #158

No, it's not. Hissyspit Jan 2015 #244

Who appointed you forum nanny, arbiter of what other DUers are allowed to like? nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #261

Nobody, and I'm not. Hissyspit Jan 2015 #262

I never reply without reading the entire thread. I find it stops me from making knee-jerk posts, msanthrope Jan 2015 #268

Oh, give me a fucking break. Hissyspit Jan 2015 #243

He "demonized" himself. 99Forever Jan 2015 #151

LOL, so you missed the superdome story and the gas station story and the slander story??? nt Logical Jan 2015 #160

Your OP has left me baffled and not a little disturbed. Arugula Latte Jan 2015 #170

Nice post. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #172

everyone is "just doing their job". ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2015 #179

Read his book. Kyle expressed his desire to go to Iraq PM Martin Jan 2015 #183

Didn't this psycho confess to killing Americans? workinclasszero Jan 2015 #194

My Dad and all my uncles served in WW2 workinclasszero Jan 2015 #197

Same here, my brother asked my dad one time how many people he killed.... Logical Jan 2015 #210

One of my Uncles fought the Japanese workinclasszero Jan 2015 #264

+ 100! nt Logical Jan 2015 #291

war's not a game. soldiers aren't players. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #224

Its because he's a violent murdering sociopath Ramses Jan 2015 #237

Hate the hype. not the person bhikkhu Jan 2015 #239

You actually feel sympathy for this "troubled person"? delrem Jan 2015 #258

I don't hate people. bhikkhu Jan 2015 #273

I don't have sympathy for cold blooded killers. delrem Jan 2015 #297

he was a shitbag of a human being. piss on him. KG Jan 2015 #283

I know you are not supposed to speak ill of the dead. Initech Jan 2015 #289

"hate the game, not the player." lumberjack_jeff Jan 2015 #293

What do you want us to do? butterfly77 Jan 2015 #296

7 Big Lies 'American Sniper' Is Telling America Hissyspit Jan 2015 #298

Thank you for posting. Dawson Leery Jan 2015 #299