General Discussion

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)

56. Mostly

Sun Jan 25, 2015, 11:27 PM

Jan 2015

The best option for Greece may be to get to fixing the tax evasion problem, start negotiations with the Troika, make contacts with other anti-austerity parties (like-minded parties, so Podemos not Le Pen), and position themselves as well as possible to paint Merkel, Draghi, and the Brussels bureaucrats as irrational ideologues pushing a failed policy. If it was a year ago, I've have suggested negotiations for Russian aid, if only to make Brussels nervous and exert some leverage on them. Too bad for Greece, that option is no longer available.*

So, yeah, the options do kind of suck. I do hope they succeed, though, because Europe is in bad shape.

*I don't think Greece should align themselves with Russia. Ideally, negotiations like that would put their adversaries in Berlin and Brussels off-balance. I suspect Russia would prove every bit as "good" a friend as Berlin has proven.

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Leftist Anti austerity party wins big in Greece [View all] Ichingcarpenter Jan 2015 OP

I hope this 'radical left wing' party can turn things around. louis-t Jan 2015 #1

IMO what happens is that the alternatives don't show themselves to be................ socialist_n_TN Jan 2015 #2

As long as Greece is on the Euro, austerity is a given. FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #3

The kind of debt Greece is on the hook for....... socialist_n_TN Jan 2015 #6

How are they going to pay for it? FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #8

How about not paying for it at all? MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #11

Ditto! n/t 2naSalit Jan 2015 #16

That's the default option FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #20

"So, basically, you are recommending the most draconian / austerity option available to them�" MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #24

Because Iceland wasn't on the Euro FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #26

They perhaps could make the case against predatory lending that has been through the courts... MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #29

Greece, economically, just doesn't fit the EU FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #31

Actually, FLP, that's not true... MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #61

which is probably why some in the party are talking about getting off the euro ND-Dem Jan 2015 #37

That'll be painful and require austerity measures too. FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #41

Then why wasn't it equally painful for iceland? You seem to want to have it both ways. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #49

Completely separate issue. Greece has massive sovereign debt; Iceland did not whatthehey Jan 2015 #71

Japan's sovereign debt is about 230% of the GNP, but they're doing reasonably well. They don't ND-Dem Jan 2015 #73

And Japan is not seriously suggesting defaulting on that debt like Syriza is whatthehey Jan 2015 #80

and you have special pleading for everything. it's all a special case to you; greece's debt is the ND-Dem Jan 2015 #85

Japan has control of their own monetary policy FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #90

Japan's government also owns the debt mostly to Japanese people or corporations muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #91

but that's not what the poster said, is it? ND-Dem Jan 2015 #92

That's what the word 'also' means muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #93

yours is the only point that's actually salient. the rest is special pleading. greece's problem is ND-Dem Jan 2015 #94

You mean no loan sharks will allow themselves to con the people out of their money. grahamhgreen Jan 2015 #69

They will raise taxes considerably on the very wealthy Bandit Jan 2015 #89

Iceland never defaulted on any government debts muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #60

ditto again. magical thyme Jan 2015 #66

Expropriate the productive and financial assets of the top 1% and place them in the service KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #52

Why yes, that would do it!.......... socialist_n_TN Jan 2015 #64

A bandaid at best Amishman Jan 2015 #82

Look, I'll just come out and say it: fuck the bourgeoisie and their KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #96

They shouldn't pay it, they should start rounding up the thieves who profited from these policies, sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #87

Wall Street Stunned As Iceland Dares To Jail Banker Involved In 2008 Crash FrodosPet Jan 2015 #95

Yes, I remember it well. A little known Whistle Blowing website at the time, Wikileaks, was the sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #98

Brava! Is society to organize itself to serve the interests of the bourgeoisie and the bankers or KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #97

that's the second option, default, which still means austerity, since they won't be able geek tragedy Jan 2015 #10

Not exactly MFrohike Jan 2015 #54

I don't think we disagree. They have no good options. geek tragedy Jan 2015 #55

Mostly MFrohike Jan 2015 #56

Yes, that is what Tsipras stressed in one of his later speeches. polly7 Jan 2015 #15

Great link Ichingcarpenter Jan 2015 #17

Yvw, and I agree with you about the IMF .. and the accolades for a mysoginist, brutal *. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #18

well, a lot of countries don't even have a Syirza--or, more fatally, pretend they have one MisterP Jan 2015 #9

If Syriza wins an outright majority I just hope that they haven't been infiltrated by corporatists.. stillwaiting Jan 2015 #19

Syriza did have to go into coalition with a far right party FrodosPet Jan 2015 #99

One word: ICELAND BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #4

I don't think Iceland was ever on the Euro FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #5

That's what Greece wants to get back to... MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #13

It'll be painful in the short term but probably better for them in the long term. FLPanhandle Jan 2015 #21

I do too. mountain grammy Jan 2015 #7

One word for what? whatthehey Jan 2015 #74

Lots of people are in for a rude awakening when they find geek tragedy Jan 2015 #12

For years, Greece did or could not collect taxes from their wealthy elites or much of other populate kelliekat44 Jan 2015 #32

"Austerity" has been the goal since Reagan, imo deutsey Jan 2015 #40

or maybe someone will invade them; it seems to be the thing these days ND-Dem Jan 2015 #38

Who's going to invade, ISIS? Turkey? Russia? nt geek tragedy Jan 2015 #42

The ones who like to invade so much. The ones doing most of the invading going round. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #57

So, either ISIS or Russia. nt geek tragedy Jan 2015 #58

No, I don't think they win the invasion sweepstakes. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #68

Technically, either the Roman Empire or Alexander the Great geek tragedy Jan 2015 #75

Biggest invader post WW2 = US ND-Dem Jan 2015 #77

No sane person believes the US is going to geek tragedy Jan 2015 #78

Depends on what you mean by invade. Read up on the period of the generals. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #83

Invade as a pretty specific meaning. geek tragedy Jan 2015 #86

Oh hell yes. A little shock and awe JEB Jan 2015 #67

It's a con. They lend money they know can't be paid back so they can control the country. People are grahamhgreen Jan 2015 #70

This is good news.... so long as they have a practical plan. Adrahil Jan 2015 #14

Really great news malaise Jan 2015 #22

Time to post this again.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2015 #23

+1 Enthusiast Jan 2015 #36

Great now maybe they can do what Iceland did, arrest all their crooked bankers and politicians who sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #25

Good. That's one of the payoffs of a parliamentary system that we lack. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #27

Goldman Sachs and all their henchmen that RUINED the Greek economy are not going to be happy. Time sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #28

Just how many countries has Goldman Sachs ruined, anyway? polly7 Jan 2015 #30

Several of the 'leaders' who were more or less installed, in fact I think one was actually installed sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #48

Thank you! polly7 Jan 2015 #51

Tsipras just said it well malaise Jan 2015 #35

Very happy to hear this. n/t deutsey Jan 2015 #33

I remember Raw Story once published story about fear of TRoN33 Jan 2015 #34

greece is fucked no matter what they do rdking647 Jan 2015 #39

German wealth is as corrupt as Greek wealth, Germany just doesn't know it. hunter Jan 2015 #43

China and Russia will loan them money. They will leave the Eurozone to get it. roamer65 Jan 2015 #44

russia doesnt have any money to loan rdking647 Jan 2015 #46

Russia is in bed with the Chinese through SCO. roamer65 Jan 2015 #47

I guess if they want to stop exporting goods to the geek tragedy Jan 2015 #76

Good news. I wish them success. It's a tough road lovemydog Jan 2015 #45

K&R nt Zorra Jan 2015 #50

Sounds good.. and good luck them in Greece! Cha Jan 2015 #53

A victory for the people! We are facing a global income inequality crisis. This problem is not just liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #59

K&R. Yes please! Overseas Jan 2015 #62

Does this mean we're going to invade Greece now? nt valerief Jan 2015 #63

"Our" intelligence agencies will probably have more work to do there now that's for sure. nt stillwaiting Jan 2015 #79

Germany got loan forgiveness of 90% of their world war II loans RunInCircles Jan 2015 #65

DOW drops a mere 10 points grahamhgreen Jan 2015 #72

hi cephasjimes7 Jan 2015 #81

Opaa! KamaAina Jan 2015 #84

They should do it the American Way and bail out the banks and corporations, not the people. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #88

No government in Greece ever had the interests of the working man as the priority. Now there is. Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #100