General Discussion

Ms. Toad

(38,643 posts)

86. And I am a Quaker.

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:45 AM

Jan 2015

I happen to have educated myself about the variety of ways Quakerism is practiced, but not all Quakers have - and I would say the same thing to a Quaker who insisted that Quakers do not practice the outward sacraments or have hireling ministers.

As much as I am aware that the adoption by Quakers of outward sacraments and hireling ministers was historically a cultural adaptation (in this case, cultural means adapting to the religious norms in the region of the US we migrated to in order to survive in those regions), it is now an integral part of the faith of those branches of Quakerism. Even as a Quaker, I don't have the right to tell them that those practices are cultural, not religious. And I would tell any Quaker who said otherwise to educate themselves.

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Muslim Woman Sues Police For Forcing Her To Remove Hijab [View all] glasshouses Jan 2015 OP

As long as she is treated the same as others. LiberalFighter Jan 2015 #1

agreed.... chillfactor Jan 2015 #4

The hijab doesn't cover the face, so she is being consistent etherealtruth Jan 2015 #7

She is wearing what they insisted she remove. n/t Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #17

Good. I hope she wins. Defense wouldn't want me on a jury here. closeupready Jan 2015 #2

female Muslims often remove their hijabs... chillfactor Jan 2015 #6

Just because some choose to, Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #19

Why? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #18

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #21

Why? It is a police booking picture yeoman6987 Jan 2015 #43

Imo a grey area legally. Weapons can certainly be hidden under the hijab, no question. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #3

She did request a female officer to take the photo and was denied. tammywammy Jan 2015 #5

In my mind that is the pertinent part etherealtruth Jan 2015 #8

This isn't fully explained in the article glasshouses Jan 2015 #12

There is some difference, because the hijab is a religious covering .... etherealtruth Jan 2015 #16

Thats true that headcoverings are mainly cultural riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #30

I will be very interested to see how this plays out n/t etherealtruth Jan 2015 #33

good point Vattel Jan 2015 #100

That was a big mistake right there. HappyMe Jan 2015 #11

Yes I think they blundered there LiberalElite Jan 2015 #65

she wasn't denied TorchTheWitch Jan 2015 #22

Its not clear in the article that a female officer was around riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #25

It's a reasonable request. And I am a great supporter of religious rights. onehandle Jan 2015 #9

I have to remove my hat and sunglasses to enter my credit union. MindPilot Jan 2015 #10

what an odd comparison CatWoman Jan 2015 #13

What's odd about it? MindPilot Jan 2015 #15

Because removing the hijab would not be required Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #20

Except the free exercise of religion DOES have legal constraints, one of which is a compelling mnhtnbb Jan 2015 #45

Booking photos are primarily used for identification. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #46

If Muslim women were singled out during the booking process, GGJohn Jan 2015 #48

Not entirely true. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #50

But that "free" expression isn't really free. The US has many laws riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #52

There are exceptions to the free exercise of faith, GGJohn Jan 2015 #55

It actually isn't. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #56

Well, you'll have to take it up with the nation's jails, because this is pretty much the GGJohn Jan 2015 #58

Can you provide those links on recent legal rulings on mug shot photos allowing the hijab? riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #69

There are two in the article, which I have provided several times. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #70

So two cases that settled rather than try to win in court... riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #72

Odd thought, but if she always wears it, it could be easier to treestar Jan 2015 #73

And next she will be suing the local emergency room for providing a male doctor Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #14

I don't see that she has a case here. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #23

Agreed n/t JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #35

The things you cited are not similar. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #47

Bullshit. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #54

It is clear you have no respect or understanding for the religious tolerance Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #57

It is clear you have no respect or understanding for the judicial precendence where religious MohRokTah Jan 2015 #59

Sure. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #66

Precedence in these cases almost always come down on the side of jailors and prisons. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #71

And it's clear you have no understanding of the process for GGJohn Jan 2015 #61

The constitution applies to both. n/t Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #63

And there are exceptions allowed, GGJohn Jan 2015 #64

Actually, it doesn't completely. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #68

the Hijab is also not religious, it is cultural... the Koran only calls for 'modesty' JCMach1 Jan 2015 #75

You don't get to decide for someone else what is religious and what is cultural Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #77

Islam is VERY PRECISE about what it believes... That is quite different from Baptists, etc. JCMach1 Jan 2015 #80

It is actually no more precise than Christianity is. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #84

JC Mach is a Muslim nt riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #85

And I am a Quaker. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #86

He's also lived for many, many years in the Middle East as a teacher riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #88

I don't have the right to tell him what his own religious practices require - Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #92

your concept of variation applies to religious rules i.e. dogma JCMach1 Jan 2015 #96

Sorry but I guess I just disagree. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #97

Wow... you can't be Muslim and doubt the text of the Koran JCMach1 Jan 2015 #94

I don't either. Silly lawsuit. 840high Jan 2015 #95

ridiculous lawsuit belzabubba333 Jan 2015 #24

No. A hijab is not required in the Qu'ran. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #27

yea i didnt think so sounds more"i'll show you " belzabubba333 Jan 2015 #28

Outsiders don't get to tell Muslims what their faith dictates. Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #49

I've read the Qu'ran. There's no requirement for a headscarf riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #51

Reading the Quran Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #62

I don't pretend to be an expert in all Islamic variations riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #67

+1000, the Koran calls for 'modesty' JCMach1 Jan 2015 #76

She could have avoided the situation if she had hadn't gotten traffic tickets, Fla Dem Jan 2015 #41

that being said i dont see why they couldnt have provided her a woman to do this belzabubba333 Jan 2015 #74

they couldn't because there was no female officer at the station TorchTheWitch Jan 2015 #89

That is racist . Rhinodawg Jan 2015 #26

You do realize that religion is not the same as race? NutmegYankee Jan 2015 #31

OK...Bigotry...but you knew what I meant. Rhinodawg Jan 2015 #32

This was a booking photo, there was no bigotry, racism, or discrimination involved, GGJohn Jan 2015 #34

I'm a progressive who does NOT embrace cultural relativism. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #36

Requiring a person to remove all head and or face coverings wjhile being booked is NOT bigotry etherealtruth Jan 2015 #37

There are limits though. NutmegYankee Jan 2015 #38

Who is imposing their culture on whom, again? Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #40

Nice post, Ben Affleck! Dr. Strange Jan 2015 #78

she hasnt sued anyone yet according to the story belzabubba333 Jan 2015 #29

frivolous lawsuit. when you get arrested, that means you get searched and geek tragedy Jan 2015 #39

We are not bound to respect your damn dark ages Religious laws alphafemale Jan 2015 #42

What about your personal dignity? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #53

You can take photos of tattoos and most birthmarks without requiring someone to strip. alphafemale Jan 2015 #98

Covering up a substantial part of your identifying features kinda defeats the point of a "mug shot" Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2015 #44

We are a secular society. Learn it live it or leave it boomer55 Jan 2015 #60

Not secular enough. earthside Jan 2015 #82

I understand Rolo Jan 2015 #79

What form of Islam tells her she can break the law, refuse her fines and continue to drive under Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #81

Would a traditionally dressed Christian nun have to remove her wimple? Coventina Jan 2015 #83

this is why we can't have nice things Egnever Jan 2015 #87

I don't know this is crossing into freedom of expression JonLP24 Jan 2015 #90

she will win if they made her keep the scarf off -other then a search or booking photo. Sunlei Jan 2015 #91

No matter what the religion, the religious practice it ardently only when it serves themselves to do Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #93

Reasonable request. Thanks for clogging up the courts with nonsense. ARMYofONE Jan 2015 #99

Woman struggling to survive in economy where the rich are special and everyone else is shit NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #101