General Discussion

patrice

(47,992 posts)

50. If it is evil for George Zimmerman to kill Trayvon Martin for what Trayvon could but NOT necessarily

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 03:33 PM

Apr 2012

WOULD have done (as we did to the Innocent People of Iraq, btw) i.e. stealing-&-unjustified-violence-against-Z, then it is evil for us to hurt and/or kill George Zimmerman for what he could, but not necessarily WOULD have done to Trayvon Martin, i.e. racially motivated cold-blooded murder.

Capability IS different from Intentionality, after-all, they intersect but are not identical. This is why it is difficult to read people's intentionality from their capabilities; all we have are whatever manifestations of the capabilities that are available to us, which might or might not reveal a significant probability of intentionality or will.

And if it is okay/good for us to kill or harm George Zimmerman for what he could, but not necessarily would, have done to Trayvon Martin, murder, then it is okay for George Zimmerman to kill Trayvon Martin for what he could but not necessarily would have done.

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Background on Zimmerman [View all] cbrer Apr 2012 OP

Alright atreides1 Apr 2012 #1

He's working on it, I'm sure. Iggo Apr 2012 #37

Sadly, Martin wasn't a hardened street thug from a broken home so he doesn't fit the narrative Blue_Tires Apr 2012 #48

It's entirely possible that every word in that story is true tularetom Apr 2012 #2

+1 joeybee12 Apr 2012 #5

General climates of prolonged struggle and failure lead to what you refer to as his patrice Apr 2012 #11

and the Zimmerman defenders will point out that pokerfan Apr 2012 #17

I've been saying the same thing from the start: Blue_Tires Apr 2012 #49

how was Zimmerman acting in defiance helloyall Apr 2012 #130

LOL! Capt. Obvious Apr 2012 #134

does 911 have legal authority? yes or no? helloyall Apr 2012 #135

911: "911, what's your emergency?" Capt. Obvious Apr 2012 #138

LEGAL authority. helloyall Apr 2012 #144

Dude...quit digging. cyberswede Apr 2012 #147

dude, chill out I'm out to prove my point helloyall Apr 2012 #151

...and what difference does that really make, at the end of the day? cyberswede Apr 2012 #153

*snort* cyberswede Apr 2012 #145

LOL! Ruby the Liberal Apr 2012 #158

That's a bingo. geardaddy Apr 2012 #150

Frankly that's about what I expected. denverbill Apr 2012 #3

And if it weren't for his justified expectation that the cops would not arrive in time to be patrice Apr 2012 #6

Effective against what? ronnie624 Apr 2012 #12

Effective against the REAL problems in the area, so that Z would not have felt it necessary to patrice Apr 2012 #13

maybe he can claim temporary insanity noiretextatique Apr 2012 #41

I don't like that. Because, to me, he has rather obvious culpability here, just (possibly) not the patrice Apr 2012 #53

yes, his culpability is pretty obvious noiretextatique Apr 2012 #55

It's hard to speculate about the weight of the racial factors. patrice Apr 2012 #57

not really noiretextatique Apr 2012 #79

not not really. We still do not know the weight of Black/hoodie relative to Z's other motives. patrice Apr 2012 #101

i am sure he saw himself as some sort of avenger or hero noiretextatique Apr 2012 #105

Also, "effective", had they come on the scene BEFORE the murder, in determining that nothing patrice Apr 2012 #84

in time...for what? Trayvon was walking home from the store noiretextatique Apr 2012 #28

You obviously dont get it. Black males are automatically Solomon Apr 2012 #40

yes...i get it, hence my thread about blaming the victim noiretextatique Apr 2012 #44

In my reference to how maleable perception is, I was trying to pose a different patrice Apr 2012 #47

If Martin was white I doubt Zimmerman would have reacted the same way.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #9

it seems we need to state the obvious over and over and over and over and over noiretextatique Apr 2012 #27

AND sometimes they are NOT what they appear to be - AND - the difference between those 2 states IS patrice Apr 2012 #64

wtf are you talking about? really. noiretextatique Apr 2012 #73

**IF** all racially motivated murders occur between ethnicities, does that NECESSARILY mean that all patrice Apr 2012 #76

i am not sure why zimmerman killed him noiretextatique Apr 2012 #106

Agreed. patrice Apr 2012 #108

And THAT'S what George Zimmerman did wrong, which act was hideously exacerbated by a gun. patrice Apr 2012 #74

**IF** all ___________ are _ _ _ _ _ _ , does that NECESSARILY mean that all _ _ _ _ _ _ are patrice Apr 2012 #70

no and no noiretextatique Apr 2012 #72

Just think if Zimmerman had listened to what 911 dispatcher told him LynneSin Apr 2012 #71

Oh god. patrice Apr 2012 #4

Yes this article of bullshit is making the rounds Rex Apr 2012 #7

Actually background matters nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #15

So does accuracy in reporting. Rex Apr 2012 #18

I don't think anyone Aerows Apr 2012 #117

i certainly hope he goes to prison noiretextatique Apr 2012 #30

That is the bottom line...he shot and killed an unarmed teenager Rex Apr 2012 #68

because you were there.. helloyall Apr 2012 #133

I am speculating that Zimmerman killed Martin!?!? REALLY??? Rex Apr 2012 #140

what facts do you have to support your statement? helloyall Apr 2012 #146

Er, how about Zimmerman admitted to killing Trayvon Ruby the Liberal Apr 2012 #149

do you have facts that Martin didn't start it? helloyall Apr 2012 #155

Like you speculating that Zimmerman may not have killed Trayvon? Ruby the Liberal Apr 2012 #157

that was for argument sake helloyall Apr 2012 #160

Then why are you all up in here amping about speculation Ruby the Liberal Apr 2012 #161

"You are speculating that Zimmerman killed him..." We are? ScreamingMeemie Apr 2012 #154

Please enlighten all of us. Spoonman Apr 2012 #63

Why would I waste the time with the likes of you? Rex Apr 2012 #67

"The likes of me"? Spoonman Apr 2012 #83

No Everyone Is Not Thinking That HangOnKids Apr 2012 #86

I notice you fail as well Spoonman Apr 2012 #87

You Are An Arrogant Boob HangOnKids Apr 2012 #90

The Fail is strong in this one. Rex Apr 2012 #93

So what really happened is someone proved you wrong Rex Apr 2012 #92

You are right, how silly of me. Rex Apr 2012 #89

Oz talks only to pretty girls in gingham and their dog Toto HangOnKids Apr 2012 #96

Small fries! Yes, I said it! Rex Apr 2012 #98

"why would I waste time on someone that already made up their mind" Spoonman Apr 2012 #125

Yes you are a lemming now go bother someone else Rex Apr 2012 #142

Here's one pure bullshit entry Oilwellian Apr 2012 #104

+1 geardaddy Apr 2012 #156

Background on the case: Innocent teen walking home from store at night rustydog Apr 2012 #8

Is there concrete evidence he continued to follow him? joeglow3 Apr 2012 #26

zimmerman: proven liar noiretextatique Apr 2012 #32

You should contact the prosecutor Spoonman Apr 2012 #66

DUH...it's on the 911 tape, which i am sure the prosecutor has noiretextatique Apr 2012 #75

Or, when on the stand Spoonman Apr 2012 #78

not surprising that apologists even excuse perjury noiretextatique Apr 2012 #81

Not a rocket scientist or lawyer either........ Spoonman Apr 2012 #85

Isn't it so pathetic? Rex Apr 2012 #94

they are coming up with ridiculous excuses noiretextatique Apr 2012 #103

I agree...last time I checked we are all equal under the law. Rex Apr 2012 #107

but enough of a look to know NoGOPZone Apr 2012 #102

Funny you mention that, because that's exactly what Zimmerman did: Blue_Tires Apr 2012 #65

I will give Zimmerman the right to call 911 Rex Apr 2012 #100

Agreed. Whether it was Racism or not is a red-herring, since it probably can't be established. patrice Apr 2012 #116

None of this changes a thing. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2012 #10

So if you are told a white sexual predator has been attacking kids in your neighborhood dkf Apr 2012 #14

If it's a white man just innocently walking down the street, then yeah. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2012 #16

LOL! SERIES!?!?! Rex Apr 2012 #19

no...the problem is not with the phone call noiretextatique Apr 2012 #24

Yes uponit7771 Apr 2012 #34

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Apr 2012 #38

You're a real piece of work. WilliamPitt Apr 2012 #52

Apparently, the author of the OP left you to defned their OP. JoePhilly Apr 2012 #88

Should Zimmerman have been allowed to chase said white man obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author DevonRex Apr 2012 #122

I didn't know there were black people commiting heinous crimes in Zimmerman's neighborhood Capt. Obvious Apr 2012 #124

+1 Rex Apr 2012 #139

Um, no. The definition applies to law enforcement, not individuals. LanternWaste Apr 2012 #128

Amongst other things, the human brain is a hypothesis generator, a theory creator, a pattern tester. patrice Apr 2012 #22

Trayvon was black, apparently two black males were breaking in to homes in the area noiretextatique Apr 2012 #29

I still don't believe that "black men were breaking into homes" fairytale Blue_Tires Apr 2012 #45

not sure i believe it either...the article repeats that claim noiretextatique Apr 2012 #46

The irony of it all is Blue_Tires Apr 2012 #51

it is bullshit noiretextatique Apr 2012 #54

Racial profiling refers to a police activity marshall Apr 2012 #115

only in his mind noiretextatique Apr 2012 #127

Didn't entitle Zimmerman to become judge, jury and executioner Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #20

Holy Crap! A black kids stole Zimmerman's bike and someones lap top got stolen! Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #21

This could be an important part of Zimmermans defense. -..__... Apr 2012 #23

zimmerman, and zimmerman alone is responsible for Martin's death noiretextatique Apr 2012 #25

What you or anyone else believes is irrelevant. -..__... Apr 2012 #31

zimmerman apologists will no doubt be in the jury pool noiretextatique Apr 2012 #33

By that logic... -..__... Apr 2012 #35

that is a possibility noiretextatique Apr 2012 #36

It will/would be difficult... -..__... Apr 2012 #39

that's true too... noiretextatique Apr 2012 #42

Would you (want to be on that jury)? -..__... Apr 2012 #59

It Happens All The Time Potential Juries Watch The News HangOnKids Apr 2012 #43

You have something to say? -..__... Apr 2012 #58

How about this HangOnKids Apr 2012 #61

Yawnnnn... -..__... Apr 2012 #62

Good You Need A Resty Poo Babe HangOnKids Apr 2012 #80

By their own words, they admit to their opinion being worthless. Rex Apr 2012 #97

So by your own admission, what you believe is irrelevant? Rex Apr 2012 #95

Did I ever post that it wasn't? -..__... Apr 2012 #118

If it is evil for George Zimmerman to kill Trayvon Martin for what Trayvon could but NOT necessarily patrice Apr 2012 #50

zimmerman is going to be on trial for second-degree murder noiretextatique Apr 2012 #56

We agree that it is a crime. We may not agree about exactly which crime it is - AND - what patrice Apr 2012 #60

as far as i know, only the new black panther party has threatened zimmerman's life noiretextatique Apr 2012 #77

If people place the desire to execute the guy ahead of the desire for the truth, that's the SAME patrice Apr 2012 #82

where are you getting this "execute" thing? noiretextatique Apr 2012 #111

execute or otherwise punish, just guessing here about the relevance of capital punishment in FL. As patrice Apr 2012 #113

i am convinced that he is a wannabe cop who racially profiled noiretextatique Apr 2012 #114

911 told Zimmerman to BACK AWAY LynneSin Apr 2012 #69

The moment Zimmerman started to chase Martin Rex Apr 2012 #99

Exactly and it's going to be that call to 911 that will show Zimmerman as guilty LynneSin Apr 2012 #110

Yeah the slime will find some way to get the least sentence. Rex Apr 2012 #112

Do you mind if I forward your post to the parties involved? -..__... Apr 2012 #119

were you convinced that OJ was guilty? did that mean you didn't want him to have a trial? noiretextatique Apr 2012 #126

Don't cry to me about not understanding what happened. Rex Apr 2012 #141

911 has NO legal authority! helloyall Apr 2012 #131

He should have done as the 911 dispatchers advised, legal authority or not cyberswede Apr 2012 #132

so you agree dispatch has no legal authority? helloyall Apr 2012 #136

Clearly, in this case, they did. cyberswede Apr 2012 #137

this makes no sense! helloyall Apr 2012 #148

My reply was to this: cyberswede Apr 2012 #152

Well that certainly means he had a right to shoot & kill any unfamiliar black men he saw Hugabear Apr 2012 #91

I am trying to figure out why this is relevant etherealtruth Apr 2012 #109

Zimmerman obviously had a gripe with black men in their late teens. shimonitanegi Apr 2012 #120

Apologist. Dogtown Apr 2012 #123

He's still killed Trayvon Martin - who committed no crime - because he was black jpak Apr 2012 #129

Exactly the Fail in this thread by Zimm apologists is Rex Apr 2012 #143

Okay so Zimmerman shot Trayvon because another supposed Black kid stole his bike. vaberella Apr 2012 #159