General Discussion

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

80. Your explanation is simply preposterous

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 12:32 AM

Jan 2015

Let's take just two examples. In 2012, Obama received the endorsements of the Sierra Club and the AFL-CIO. Those organizations, however, have raised serious objections to TPP, based on their areas of expertise, environmental protection and workers' well-being.

See, these critics and others practice this thing called "nuance". One can generally support Obama, and consider him clearly superior to the likes of Romney, and yet not support every single thing he does simply because he does it.

Admittedly, that attitude also involves abandoning the comfortable assumption that anyone who disagrees with you about anything must be doing so based on a preconceived notion, or on improper motives, or the like. Instead, you must entertain the unsettling possibility that a reasonable person could come to a conclusion different from yours. This is a difficult step for some people, notably children and Republicans.

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Why The "H" Is Obama Pushing TPP?. It Will Destroy Any Legacy He Has. [View all] TheMastersNemesis Jan 2015 OP

Not going to destroy his legacy...All presidents do some shit not everybody likes NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #1

Bill Clinton already did that, bvar22 Jan 2015 #130

He doesn't work for us. Maedhros Jan 2015 #2

Got it in one. nt truebluegreen Jan 2015 #81

Don't fall for the hype....that man holds his cards close to his vest... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #3

So Obama (and Hillary) are lying when they say this is the best thing evah! and djean111 Jan 2015 #6

do you have quotes? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #8

Did you listen to the State of the Union? Armstead Jan 2015 #33

Yes I did every word..... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #35

So, your position is that you think the President is/was lying about his support for this deal? Dragonfli Jan 2015 #37

I just said my position... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #41

I got it, you think he is lying based on how you judged his past behavior after contrary statements. Dragonfli Jan 2015 #49

No you don't "got it" VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #50

How about I just take him at his word since you provide nothing at all to convince me Dragonfli Jan 2015 #57

Well Done. bvar22 Jan 2015 #131

I usually don't engage these days, but the poster's position was ridiculous Dragonfli Jan 2015 #135

"the posters tone was as confrontational as her argument was weak" LondonReign2 Jan 2015 #158

So you are willing to support Obama even though he is acting like a INdemo Jan 2015 #69

Let me see if I got this right... AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #150

It amazes me that people ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #36

The reason is 1Strong.....because they have a preconceived opinion of the man for whatever reason VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #39

Your explanation is simply preposterous Jim Lane Jan 2015 #80

See - I'm gonna start agreeing with them JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #123

That amazes me also Andy823 Jan 2015 #127

and yet the naysayers do it over and over. Sheepshank Jan 2015 #149

"TPP......should benefit American businesses and workers." Hillary Clinton Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #43

and what are the higher standards if implemented and enforced? Do you know? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #45

You asked for a quote, you got one. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #48

That one cracks me up. Marr Jan 2015 #56

That tactic is in the Disruption Playbook. That's why I did not answer the djean111 Jan 2015 #97

Anyway the wind blows>January 14, 2015 fredamae Jan 2015 #153

All I hear is "Have faith. You don't need the truth." nm rhett o rick Jan 2015 #133

OH and by the way.....about Hillary and NAFTA for the record... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #47

And, she's backing the TPP as she backed Bush's wars. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #51

Just Like i said...you cannot connect dots! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #53

Hype? What hype? There are a lot of intellegent people that have come out with rhett o rick Jan 2015 #132

I doubt he's concerned about his legacy. The corporations want this and isn't Autumn Jan 2015 #4

thats what YOU think.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #10

Oh that's what it means! BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #17

No that is not what I said it means...it means...if you cannot pledge to vote for whomever VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #22

I don't think you know Democrats very well. We don't ever walk in lock-step. rhett o rick Jan 2015 #134

Why do YOU think that there are no Democrats that are Left? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #24

I will proudly wear the mantle of LLI that you my dear friend have bestowed on me. Autumn Jan 2015 #20

its not an endearment believe me! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #21

I disagree with you my dear friend. It is an endearment you have bestowed on me. Autumn Jan 2015 #25

I am the one that said it....I think I know what I meant.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #26

Ah my dear friend, don't be confused. I am well aware of the honor you have bestowed on me. Autumn Jan 2015 #27

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #28

An epithet that you dearest Nilla have bestowed on me. Autumn Jan 2015 #30

I don't bestow....I just tell the truth. VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #31

Yes indeed you do dearest Nilla. Are you perchance a psychic? If so I would so dearly Autumn Jan 2015 #32

I bow BrotherIvan Jan 2015 #68

"LEAN LEFT aspirant Jan 2015 #90

Can you be any more condescending? elias7 Jan 2015 #74

But intentional insults aren't, apparently. Marr Jan 2015 #76

Yes I can be very much more condescending. I have pet peeves of my own. Autumn Jan 2015 #104

Another bravura performance! The crowd is going wild! Buns_of_Fire Jan 2015 #92

The Democratic debates would be doable on my behalf. Autumn Jan 2015 #111

Let a great American writer shed some light on this. Jim Lane Jan 2015 #63

The dig isn't assimple as ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #73

I agree with your position but not with VR's. Jim Lane Jan 2015 #75

How so ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #77

Finding a Republican better than the Democrat -- very rare, but not impossible. Jim Lane Jan 2015 #79

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #96

Sorry Jim, I will never take a loyalty oath. That's just how I am. Autumn Jan 2015 #113

I quite agree and I'm sure Bierce would, too. Jim Lane Jan 2015 #145

Yes. He's looking out 840high Jan 2015 #82

I hope he saves himself from himself. AtomicKitten Jan 2015 #5

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. 99Forever Jan 2015 #7

ALL? So NOTHING Obama has done is any good, NOTHING? NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author 99Forever Jan 2015 #11

this is what you said NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author 99Forever Jan 2015 #13

Uh huh...or else you could just admit that your comment was way too harsh about our Prez NoJusticeNoPeace Jan 2015 #14

Thank you 99Forever. truedelphi Jan 2015 #87

From what I can see, he thinks it is a great idea that will help Americans. Agnosticsherbet Jan 2015 #15

Because ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #40

So he has announced that as his reason? Agnosticsherbet Jan 2015 #44

It's in the US Trade Representative website ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #54

That's standard neoliberal claptrap. Marr Jan 2015 #59

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #62

I don't think that Obama-skeptic expected an answer. heh... eom BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #67

Maybe he hasn't read it, either. PADemD Jan 2015 #58

there is no way in hell he actually believes that Skittles Jan 2015 #83

there is not way to tell if it is really vast governmental conspiracy Agnosticsherbet Jan 2015 #86

TPTB want it badly. hifiguy Jan 2015 #16

+1 Yep....that's the way I see it too. I feel snappyturtle Jan 2015 #102

Let's just sit on sidelines and let other countries get a leg up. Hoyt Jan 2015 #18

It's not abouit other countries or us -- It's about civil society vs. Big Money Corporations Armstead Jan 2015 #34

I think you are misinterpreting all the conspiracy fears. Hoyt Jan 2015 #46

You should educate yourself. Maedhros Jan 2015 #72

Those same folks were telling us Obama was going to approve the pipeline, gut social security, and Hoyt Jan 2015 #85

You have to look at the trees to see the forest Armstead Jan 2015 #98

Actually, even folks like Paul Krugman think folks are blaming NAFTA for stuff caused by other Hoyt Jan 2015 #103

I don't think they would have been worse. Instead NAFTA made the worse easier to accomplish. Armstead Jan 2015 #125

Protecting the status quo, or preparing domestic economy for the future? I lean toward latter in a Hoyt Jan 2015 #126

Criticism of the TPP is based upon leaked documents showing that actual "trade provisions" Maedhros Jan 2015 #136

Have you read and understood the entire document, and factored in all the parts that aren't Hoyt Jan 2015 #140

Of course not. Maedhros Jan 2015 #141

It ain't finished. When it is, you and I can read it. Chill out. Hoyt Jan 2015 #142

That has been the man's pattern. n/t. 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #42

Same reason Clinton pushed Nafta and repeal of banking laws. $$$ n2doc Jan 2015 #19

OBAMA and every single one of the Centrist Dems are not the truedelphi Jan 2015 #23

And he will be VERY handsomely rewarded if TPP goes through. hifiguy Jan 2015 #29

LOL Egnever Jan 2015 #38

+10. appalachiablue Jan 2015 #78

+100 JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #129

So now Obama is evil. Got it. NYC Liberal Jan 2015 #55

No actually the Pew Survey and polls on Americans take on the 2 big money parties truedelphi Jan 2015 #71

Sorry, but the "two parties are the same" is a right-wing meme designed to depress turnout NYC Liberal Jan 2015 #84

And the Pew Survey shows that Democrats support TPP much more than republicans do. pampango Jan 2015 #95

I suspect he knows what is in it and does not think it will "flush the working class down the toilet pampango Jan 2015 #52

He doesn't agree. treestar Jan 2015 #60

The major contributors to his campaigns were the finance industry rurallib Jan 2015 #61

because he knows the brainless high-fiving "Obama knocks out/huge win/OUTFLANKS" headlines will be MisterP Jan 2015 #64

now we've got DUers telling us TPP *HAS* to be great for Americans BECAUSE Obama is pushing it Skittles Jan 2015 #93

Call your representative and senators tomorrow and tell them NO on TPP / Fast Track / TPA StopTheTPP Jan 2015 #65

That's exactly what I think Jack Rabbit Jan 2015 #66

The whole deal is brazen Oligarch's gone wild 90-percent Jan 2015 #70

Ir's so obvious. NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #88

I have no idea why he is pushing this JonLP24 Jan 2015 #89

The fact is ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #91

Becasue it is what his backers and who he really supports wants. ChosenUnWisely Jan 2015 #94

The "trade" part of this thing is only five chapters or so. Out of 28 or 29. djean111 Jan 2015 #99

"Like tying a cement block to the feet of a drowning man" 90-percent Jan 2015 #100

Yes...from even the little we know from Wikileaks..Thom nails it. KoKo Jan 2015 #105

Thanks for posting this, TH is the best, and he's right. A couple years ago he mentioned looking appalachiablue Jan 2015 #159

First African American POTUS. No one and nothing will or can take that legacy. merrily Jan 2015 #101

I will note your concern. Pisces Jan 2015 #106

Now that republicans control the house and senate, it will pass easily and B Calm Jan 2015 #107

If Democrats didn't get a clue after the passage of the ACA.. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #108

Thanks to ACA my wife and I were able to retire at age 62. B Calm Jan 2015 #109

When did you plan on retiring? NCTraveler Jan 2015 #112

Originally I planned to retire at age 55, but thanks to NAFTA the cellophane plant I was working B Calm Jan 2015 #121

No, the fear about it is as overblown as Ross Perot's "Great Sucking Sound" Recursion Jan 2015 #110

Your claims here were thoroughly debunked last time you made them. closeupready Jan 2015 #115

No, but I acknowledge that you keep claiming that Recursion Jan 2015 #116

You'd take the 1990s economy, but even more inequality than we have now, i.e., Calcutta. closeupready Jan 2015 #117

Nope. Nice dig against Indians, though! Recursion Jan 2015 #118

lol, you got nothing but lies. Yup, lol, closeupready Jan 2015 #120

I agree, but that don't stop the same 2 posters (who work overseas) from posting it over and over B Calm Jan 2015 #124

Please stop crapping on Recursion. joshcryer Jan 2015 #143

I will not be silenced from refuting right wing arguments presented by DU members here. closeupready Jan 2015 #144

No, you just want to silence others with petty insults. joshcryer Jan 2015 #148

Bye-bye! closeupready Jan 2015 #154

Oh good. joshcryer Jan 2015 #157

Perot's "giant sucking sound" may be the republican sound bite most quoted by Democrats. pampango Jan 2015 #128

He wants trade to be governed by our rules, rather than China's. Calista241 Jan 2015 #114

A voice of reason. Thank goodness. We can't just sit on our rears and watch the world pass us by, Hoyt Jan 2015 #146

It makes one wonder what the discussion really is within the establishment. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #119

Maybe he wants to destroy it? JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #122

11-dimensional chess dictates that he is secretly against it. mattclearing Jan 2015 #137

Side by side of Obama's SOTU address and what's in the TPP. Feron Jan 2015 #138

Still wating for YOUR explanation ... NanceGreggs Jan 2015 #139

I don't believe he is doing that. Nor do I believe he will endorse a bad deal if that is what Hoyt Jan 2015 #147

You think trade is why Congress refuses to raise the Federal minimum wage? Sunlei Jan 2015 #151

Money, Wall Street/Corporate Wants, Congress Gives fredamae Jan 2015 #152

LOL tridim Jan 2015 #155

Did I name Any POTUS? fredamae Jan 2015 #156

K&R StopTheTPP Jan 2015 #160