General Discussion

Whiskeytide

(4,654 posts)

157. I think I'm one of the posters you think...

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 05:12 PM

Apr 2012

... has defended the fishermen. I have not. What I have objected to throughout the posting on this tragedy is turning a phrase or two to change the meaning of a statement, whether intentional or not.

We can all agree that "a reckless and incompetent asshole stupidly - and needlessly - fired a warning shot that struck Summer Moody in the back of the head and killed her." There could be charges filed for that. There probably should be. But murder or manslaughter it is not.

But that is a different statement from "a gun-toting vigilante shot AT some teens and struck Summer Moody in the back of the head and killed her." That could be murder, and it most certainly would be manslaughter. The problem is that this is not, by all accounts, what happened.

Law enforcement re-enacted the events sometime in the last few days - at night under similar lighting - and they determined that the shooter could not have seen Summer from where he fired the shot. The shooter - per lawyer Stankowski - says he did not see her when he fired the shot. I have seen no evidence to refute that conclusion. Until I do, I'm not going to change my definition of these guys from "stupid, reckless assholes" to "gun-toting, vigilantes who shot at someone."

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

194 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

17 year old Summer Moody has died. Her assailant is now known, but still not charged. [View all] pnwmom Apr 2012 OP

Odd, you left out the part where the "teens" were arrested and charged with aggravated burglary... DonP Apr 2012 #1

Wonder if the OP will respond to this reply... snooper2 Apr 2012 #3

I hope not. It does not merit a reply. MattBaggins Apr 2012 #12

no shit frylock Apr 2012 #16

Took the word right out of my mouth. n/t Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #184

I did. nt pnwmom Apr 2012 #36

And yet the criminal records of those who shot her and shot at the kids joeybee12 Apr 2012 #4

I didn't think convicted drug felons were allowed to own guns obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #48

That's why the Feds are now investigating. Apparently there are some exceptions, pnwmom Apr 2012 #69

Should have read further -- thanks! obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #76

. Go Vols Apr 2012 #116

That wouldn't affect the Federal reg on this obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #156

Odd that you feel it's ok to protect property over a human life. Swede Apr 2012 #6

If a burglar was in your house what would you do. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #9

Home invasion is a different thing,your life is in danger,not your property. Swede Apr 2012 #14

What if someone came home to a burglary? Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #21

Property is not worth it. Swede Apr 2012 #30

Cops take time. The last burglars killed my cat without a thought. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #33

Oh,you're one of those guys with a hardon for shooting someone. Swede Apr 2012 #43

Yeah, that's what it is. Call me when your 16 yo pet is killed. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #57

You don't value human life. That's a real problem DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2012 #62

No. I don't value a burglar's life over my pets. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #66

If you took a human life over the loss of a pet .... kwassa Apr 2012 #113

I would take multiple human lives if it meant saving any of my pets. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #117

Seek help. You're displaying some seriously fucked up values. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2012 #120

Because I value my pets over a life of a burglar? Sorry, your the one with messed up values. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #122

I'm not the one advocating killing multiple people over a pet. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2012 #127

That kind of babble you are spouting is usually followed by "God gave man dominion over the animals" Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #135

Tell it to the judge. I'll leave it at that. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2012 #138

If a dog attacked a burglar, what would you like to see happen? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #140

Tell the cops that. Life Long Dem Apr 2012 #165

I agree with you. RebelOne Apr 2012 #148

Thank you for restoring some of my faith in people. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #150

Are you going to shoot them with your cameras? Comrade Grumpy Apr 2012 #119

No, but my office is about 5 minutes from my house. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #121

If you don't want to get shot naaman fletcher Apr 2012 #175

What if it was your kid? Swede Apr 2012 #177

Kids do stupid things naaman fletcher Apr 2012 #178

A bunch of teenagers out drinking break into an empty fishing hut is not stupid? Swede Apr 2012 #180

Yes I agree naaman fletcher Apr 2012 #182

You'd prefer if your neighbor shot at people they didn't know coming out of your house? pnwmom Apr 2012 #70

I'd like to think people can tell the difference. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #75

What your neighbors should have done is call 911, if they saw anything suspicious. pnwmom Apr 2012 #93

That would have been nice. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #106

Tell that to Trayvon's family. <DEEP FUCKING BREATHS> TheMadMonk Apr 2012 #103

They probably would have liked for someone to get involved as well. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #104

Someone did INVOLVE himself. In almost exactly the same manner... TheMadMonk Apr 2012 #131

They probably would have liked one of the onlookers to get involved. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #132

keep adding the post-hoc qualifiers until it fits the narrative you're looking for... LanternWaste Apr 2012 #137

So you're saying that they would have not have liked someone not involved in the confrontation to Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #139

What if the angle of impact is exactly right to strangle you with your seatbelt. TheMadMonk Apr 2012 #101

Bunch of nonsense. If I come to my elderly parents home and there is a burglary in progress I am Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #102

Family is a long fucking way from a part time neighbour. TheMadMonk Apr 2012 #123

"You have NO FUCKING RIGHT WHATSOVEVER to use deadly force in protecting the property of others." Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #124

There was NO BURGLARY IN PROGRESS and the cabin was empty. pnwmom Apr 2012 #128

Where is that from? Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #134

Here are a couple of relevant articles. pnwmom Apr 2012 #144

I see where the girl was 15 - 30 feet away, but what about the others? Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #146

I haven't seen that. But all the accounts I've read pnwmom Apr 2012 #154

15-30 feet away...... Spoonman Apr 2012 #136

"You have NO FUCKING RIGHT WHATSOVEVER to use deadly force in protecting the property of others." Spoonman Apr 2012 #129

The cabin was under construction and no neighbors or kids were ever at risk pnwmom Apr 2012 #170

OK, so stealing from a house under construction is no longer a crime. Spoonman Apr 2012 #174

Stealing some tools from anywhere shouldn't justify a death sentence. pnwmom Apr 2012 #179

"You have NO FUCKING RIGHT WHATSOVEVER ..." oldhippie Apr 2012 #171

Theft is not a home invasion, and theft is not a capital crime obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #50

It is if you're in my house. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #55

That isn't theft, as you well know obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #60

What would you call it then? Liberation of goods? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #64

It isn't theft, as you well know obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #79

Apparently, you do not have an answer as to what it was. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #86

The shooters weren't at their own home. And nobody was inside the cabin either, not even a pet. n/t pnwmom Apr 2012 #72

How would anybody know that? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #73

People know whether or not they own a cabin obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #81

Yeah, that was the question. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #84

'twas the only pertinent question. TheMadMonk Apr 2012 #111

Sure it was, lol. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #115

If you can do so safely then yes actually. However, funnily enough... TheMadMonk Apr 2012 #126

The fishermen never saw the teens inside the house. They were outside of the house pnwmom Apr 2012 #130

I had not heard that. Where is that from? Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #133

There are many media accounts. Here are a couple. pnwmom Apr 2012 #145

not everytime SwampG8r Apr 2012 #192

Numerous media reports have said the cabin was empty. pnwmom Apr 2012 #94

No burglar was in these men's houses. They left their own cabin pnwmom Apr 2012 #59

So you were there? Please post the video. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #61

Why do you always take the side of violent gun death? Unhappy childhood? DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2012 #67

Why do you always take the side of criminals? Robin Hood fantasies? nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #68

Like the convicted drug felon who illegally owned a gun you are supporting? obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #87

Who says I'm supporting him? Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #90

Yeah you're right. A warning shot NEGATES ALL CASTLE DOCTRINE DEFENCES. TheMadMonk Apr 2012 #114

. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #118

maybe she was wearing a hooodie noiretextatique Apr 2012 #91

Innocent until proven guilty? treestar Apr 2012 #100

+1 obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #83

Well, they did fire "warning shots", according to one of their own defense attorneys. nt pnwmom Apr 2012 #74

And that was idiocy. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #77

She was hiding in the bushs when the shooter fired a warning shot hack89 Apr 2012 #11

The shooter CLAIMS he did that MattBaggins Apr 2012 #17

Can you show where SYG has been evoked in this case? nt hack89 Apr 2012 #54

Thankfully it has not in this case MattBaggins Apr 2012 #149

So the shooter fired a warning shot into a bush? First off, warning shots should not be fired. 2nd.. stevenleser Apr 2012 #18

What is ironic is that people who get upset about police shootings often say "why couln't they fire Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #26

yup naaman fletcher Apr 2012 #176

I agree with you that warning shots are never a good idea. hack89 Apr 2012 #29

If you just want to warn someone, chamber a round Recursion Apr 2012 #56

In this case I would have simply let them go. nt hack89 Apr 2012 #58

Exactly obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #88

These men had no business warning anyone. pnwmom Apr 2012 #107

I'm trying to imagine a scenario... AmazingSchnitzel Apr 2012 #158

if you're stupid enough to fire a warning shot you fire it in the air ffs.. frylock Apr 2012 #19

Bad idea no matter where it's fired. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #27

No. How do you know where it will come down? hack89 Apr 2012 #32

yeh, the bullet went right into that girl's head.. frylock Apr 2012 #143

Newtonian Physics 101 Recursion Apr 2012 #65

if you're stupid enough to fire a warning shot frylock Apr 2012 #142

A warning shot fired into the bushes? tosh Apr 2012 #22

Firing blindly into the air is an even worse idea hack89 Apr 2012 #34

It was 4 am and pitch dark. The defense attorney of one of the men pnwmom Apr 2012 #63

Sure thing, a "warning shot" shot dead-center to the head -- He was aiming at her is my guess. Hoyt Apr 2012 #98

so do I TorchTheWitch Apr 2012 #163

wtf does that have to do with recklessly discharging a firearm?! frylock Apr 2012 #15

So shooting her was okay? proud2BlibKansan Apr 2012 #25

What difference does that really make? I said that the campers claim they were pnwmom Apr 2012 #31

Odd that you think any of this merits shooting a kid in the head. Chorophyll Apr 2012 #35

Theft is not a Capital Crime in this country obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #37

Yep. Guilty until proven innocent, I say! And death to all burglars! MH1 Apr 2012 #47

I'm Sure You Are Sorry She Passed HangOnKids Apr 2012 #71

I had placed that poster on Full Ignore without comment for the coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #78

You Are Welcome HangOnKids Apr 2012 #95

Still, shooting her is not justified treestar Apr 2012 #99

She was not armed and was not charged with burglary jpak Apr 2012 #108

Too Many in this country are sick fascisthunter Apr 2012 #147

Our American obsession with property rights take precedent above anything else Blue_Tires Apr 2012 #152

You left out the part where the "concerned citizens'" official story doesn't make Blue_Tires Apr 2012 #153

And for that they deserve to die! Iggo Apr 2012 #166

So, juveniles acting juvenilely absolve the murderers from murder? baldguy Apr 2012 #194

A sad and ugly story on all sides. Brickbat Apr 2012 #2

I'm sure gun culture is praying for no charges against the shooter. Hoyt Apr 2012 #5

First we need to find out if the shooter was even aware of the girl when he fired hack89 Apr 2012 #13

no, we don't need to know that.. frylock Apr 2012 #23

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #38

You're making it worse not better. Why would one fire at all if there is no imminent danger. stevenleser Apr 2012 #24

I agree that the shooter should be charged hack89 Apr 2012 #41

No, you don't obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #39

I agree hack89 Apr 2012 #44

Gotcha obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #52

Negligent homicide and manslaughter don't require intent. pnwmom Apr 2012 #46

Never said it didn't hack89 Apr 2012 #49

Actually, the post was about "gun culture". It was not about the shooters in this case. ieoeja Apr 2012 #151

And felony murder for the friends doesn't require their intent either Recursion Apr 2012 #51

The cabin was empty, and Summer wasn't shot by its owner. pnwmom Apr 2012 #89

Similar to... AmazingSchnitzel Apr 2012 #164

There is no evidence she was a look-out or otherwise involved pnwmom Apr 2012 #167

If she was a random hiker tromping through the woods... AmazingSchnitzel Apr 2012 #168

I didn't say she was a random hiker. pnwmom Apr 2012 #169

Fleeing the scene is still part of a crime in progress... AmazingSchnitzel Apr 2012 #172

That the boys were ever in the cabin IS under contention: no one has claimed that they saw the boys pnwmom Apr 2012 #173

Personally, I'm suspicious of what someone who shot unarmed girl in head says are the facts. Hoyt Apr 2012 #96

That's not true at all. naaman fletcher Apr 2012 #183

This is a complicated case. ananda Apr 2012 #7

You are overstating what the teens did. They thought they were gaining entry to an unused campground stevenleser Apr 2012 #28

So, something that is exactly the definition of "burglary" shouldn't be called "burglary"? Recursion Apr 2012 #42

The shooters first spotted the teens at some distance (15-30 feet) away from the building. pnwmom Apr 2012 #80

For that matter, her friends could be facing felony murder, conceivably (nt) Recursion Apr 2012 #40

Which would be a great injustice, if the actual shooter isn't charged with anything. n/t pnwmom Apr 2012 #82

No one was caught in the act of felony burglary, or any burglary. pnwmom Apr 2012 #53

Shoot first Turbineguy Apr 2012 #8

Shoot. Claim SYG. No further questions needed. MattBaggins Apr 2012 #20

SHOOT FIRST Spoonman Apr 2012 #125

This is why warning shots are always a bad idea. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #10

Thos was not a home invasion, and theft is not a capital crime in the United States obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #45

Whether the teens actually broke into and burglarized the cabin is still in dispute. pnwmom Apr 2012 #85

Bernie Madoff didn't "physically harm" anyone either! n/t Spoonman Apr 2012 #92

Madoff was shot by a felon to keep him from fleeing? Fumesucker Apr 2012 #97

Of course not, Spoonman Apr 2012 #109

Waiting for the "she deserved it" vigilante apologist crowd jpak Apr 2012 #105

You missed the first response. a la izquierda Apr 2012 #112

RIP Summer Moody Cali_Democrat Apr 2012 #110

Aw shit. That's very sad news. polly7 Apr 2012 #141

The DA has just announced that she sees no probable cause for prosecuting the shooter. pnwmom Apr 2012 #155

I think I'm one of the posters you think... Whiskeytide Apr 2012 #157

I've never thought they deliberately tried to shoot her. pnwmom Apr 2012 #160

It might under some circumstances... Whiskeytide Apr 2012 #188

We should definitely expand the situations in which an untrained person can ... JoePhilly Apr 2012 #159

In the boat they fired upon the island Life Long Dem Apr 2012 #161

I agree that it was negligent. But the DA has decided she didn't see probable cause pnwmom Apr 2012 #162

your recitation of the facts omit some key facts. grantcart Apr 2012 #181

Those are not "facts." pnwmom Apr 2012 #185

they are the 'facts' in the link that you sourced grantcart Apr 2012 #187

One group, the ones doing the shooting, has convicted felons as members.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #190

my points have nothing to do with the substance of the case grantcart Apr 2012 #191

Evidently the stories differ.. Fumesucker Apr 2012 #193

What a horrible accident....prayers for her family. ileus Apr 2012 #186

Just like in Texas Catherine Vincent Apr 2012 #189