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msanthrope

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12. I am loving the post hoc defense of Judith Miller and Scooter Libby, myself. nt

Reply to randome (Reply #7)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 08:30 PM

Jan 2015

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This Is How A Police State Protects �Secrets� - Marcy Wheeler/Salon [View all] WillyT Jan 2015 OP

If this were a police state, you would not have the freedom to post what you just did Glassunion Jan 2015 #1

After reading your headline, I was about to go off on you . . . markpkessinger Jan 2015 #13

I know you are being sarcastic, but I wish to remind DU of Hannah Arendt's observation that KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #127

+1 Scuba Jan 2015 #172

Thanks.... daleanime Jan 2015 #201

Probably also with the "encouragement" of the populace to visit taboo places erronis Jan 2015 #221

My sarcasm was not a jab at the state of things, but one at those who say they have Glassunion Jan 2015 #224

Yeah, I got that. I wished to underline the serious point I thought (correctly) you were KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #226

+ 1,000,000,000 WillyT Jan 2015 #236

My head hurts. nt Mnemosyne Jan 2015 #2

No secret ... GeorgeGist Jan 2015 #3

+1 Rex Jan 2015 #17

Great article. Really spells it all out. Thanks for this Willy! K&R nt riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #4

You Are Quite Welcome... WillyT Jan 2015 #14

KICK AND REC AND BOOKMARK FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY AND THE NATION. Octafish Jan 2015 #5

How can anyone defend this miscarriage of justice? elias49 Jan 2015 #6

Well, except for that pesky trial and the jury and the judge and stuff. randome Jan 2015 #7

You're talking about an outdated Espionage Act passed during the red scare JonLP24 Jan 2015 #8

randome may be conflicted when it comes to the law of the land. Octafish Jan 2015 #11

He is concerned about the 1st Amendment? News to me. Rex Jan 2015 #18

The Constitution is not immutable. And Sterling's case has nothing to do with it. randome Jan 2015 #21

It's got everything to do with the Constitution. Octafish Jan 2015 #25

'Embarrassed'? So you don't care about the agent who was outed? randome Jan 2015 #26

What's the name of that agent? riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #79

No idea. What difference does the name make? randome Jan 2015 #81

Uhm you're the one who said Sterling outed his own agent. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #86

'Outing' an agent means giving the name to someone who is not authorized to know it. randome Jan 2015 #101

Provide me with the facts that back you up riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #111

I may not have everything right, no problem admitting that. randome Jan 2015 #113

In the indictment, Sterling's book proposal is detailed. Some posters here are msanthrope Jan 2015 #114

Thank you. It's helpful to know my confusion is not completely without merit. randome Jan 2015 #117

Well... OP article is a lesson to those who would quote such a sloppy source.... msanthrope Jan 2015 #122

She did. Read the article. Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #195

But she only discussed 7 counts--ignoring the other 2, and thus, from this thread, it's pretty msanthrope Jan 2015 #199

sterling doesn't have a book. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #115

Sterling has a book proposal only. Risen has the published book riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #120

By specifying how the agent delivered secret messages, Sterling in effect outed him/her. randome Jan 2015 #126

Oh FFS, now you're just making shit up. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #129

Now I remember where I found that: in the article linked to by the OP. randome Jan 2015 #203

'Google is surprisingly unhelpful in putting it all together comprehensively.' Rex Jan 2015 #220

I probably understand it as well as anyone who is not an attorney. randome Jan 2015 #223

When did outing an agent become illegal? When Plame was outed by Novak, it took the prosecutor hughee99 Jan 2015 #143

Novak was a journalist and so was given 'extra-special-super-duper' consideration. randome Jan 2015 #144

Gone to jail too? The leaker didn't even go to jail! hughee99 Jan 2015 #158

He should have gone to jail like Sterling. randome Jan 2015 #160

They can't even back up that charge riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #149

From the indictment. randome Jan 2015 #155

so the 'Human Asset' was the Russian? bigtree Jan 2015 #165

Compromising an identity is not 'greivous harm' but it is potentially dangerous. randome Jan 2015 #166

most crimes require some proof of harm actually done bigtree Jan 2015 #169

I see nothing there that Sterling outed an agent. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #170

we're making the assumption, for the sake of argument bigtree Jan 2015 #175

I understand. I'm just attacking even that base premise nt riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #178

Assumption? He was convicted. You may make an assumption, but understand something..... msanthrope Jan 2015 #182

It's also circumstantial to see someone holding a smoking gun but without seeing the gun fired. randome Jan 2015 #180

interesting bigtree Jan 2015 #190

Interesting it has been. randome Jan 2015 #192

Congress said "meh" Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #88

What war crimes are implied by Sterling? None that I'm aware of. randome Jan 2015 #98

Sorry, you are correct, digging into the facts Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #105

Hence, the conviction. Octafish Jan 2015 #119

I'm on your side Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #124

The only ones who don't recognize this as a vicious vindictive act riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #132

Yep. Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #151

And they seem to be the ones that defend the NSA/CIA with unusual vigor Rex Jan 2015 #222

No, I'm talking about a national security agent giving away national security secrets. randome Jan 2015 #20

You said except for the law, jury, judge, etc its a police state JonLP24 Jan 2015 #23

He was also punished for outing an agent. randome Jan 2015 #28

80 Years ??? - How... Reasonable Of You... WillyT Jan 2015 #30

Don't expect me to support that kind of sentencing. I don't. randome Jan 2015 #32

You Don't See Something Wrong With The System ??? WillyT Jan 2015 #36

Juries -both on DU and in the judicial system- are not perfect. randome Jan 2015 #42

Even If That Information Was Publicly Available ??? And How Come The FBI... WillyT Jan 2015 #46

The government pressed Risen to reveal his sources. When he refused, they basically gave up. randome Jan 2015 #48

And Maybe... Just Maybe... The Reason Some Will "willingly obfuscate and deflect." WillyT Jan 2015 #50

Tell us how interdicting Iran's nuclear capacity is un-American? nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #59

Interdicting AMERICA'S Nuclear Program May Be Un-American... Iran Has It's Own Sovereignty... WillyT Jan 2015 #237

I certainly wouldn't want Congress to decide what's good for the American people JonLP24 Jan 2015 #39

I don't think we had whistleblower protections back then, did we? randome Jan 2015 #40

We have far less than we did then as evidenced by this thread JonLP24 Jan 2015 #43

Thank You For That !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #238

Huh? Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #89

His book that he was trying to sell. randome Jan 2015 #94

But there is no mention of "selling" secrets in the indictment or conviction Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #97

Yes, it is. Using classified intel as a means to gain money is the same, IMO. randome Jan 2015 #99

To clarify: My question was whether he Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #103

My arguments are NOT based on strict readings of the law since I'm not an attorney. randome Jan 2015 #104

Well, that was going to be my next question Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #109

His book was his memoirs that the CIA refused to give him permission to publish. randome Jan 2015 #210

Actually...Sterling's attempt to publish is in the indictment...there's also msanthrope Jan 2015 #118

Thanks, I guess I will have to plow Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #121

I blame Wheeler on this one..she should have disclosed to her msanthrope Jan 2015 #125

Thank you for the link Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #148

Msanthrope did not read the article. Wheeler does indeed, at the beginning of the article Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #198

But it's apparent from this thread that Wheeler is unclear--and I blame Wheeler, rather than DUers msanthrope Jan 2015 #207

No, it is clear that people are discussing the Espionage Act charges. The focus of Wheeler's article Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #217

Thank you for admitting that Wheeler is selectively discussing the charges. And I think that proves msanthrope Jan 2015 #219

Quoting inaccurately and making false statements in order to further her agenda? bvar22 Jan 2015 #228

LOL !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #239

Randome is a master of Aerows Jan 2015 #206

I am a 'master' at nothing other than my ability to look at all the fine print. randome Jan 2015 #211

There is a difference Aerows Jan 2015 #215

Their goal is not to convince anyone of anything. bvar22 Jan 2015 #230

Just thought I'd point it out Aerows Jan 2015 #234

Gotta Agree... WillyT Jan 2015 #240

Let me see if I can figure out what you are saying here. Aerows Jan 2015 #153

Is it difficult to admit it's possible that Congress blew him off because there was nothing illegal? randome Jan 2015 #157

LOL Aerows Jan 2015 #161

I have never defended torture. randome Jan 2015 #164

Anyone that ardently defends Aerows Jan 2015 #202

But we DO know that people were tortured in our name. Much to our shame. randome Jan 2015 #204

You are doing it again. Aerows Jan 2015 #214

Virtually no one is talking about torture today. randome Jan 2015 #218

Did you see the date on those 2 Aerows Jan 2015 #225

Nobody Wants To Talk About Their Pedophile Uncle Either... Doesn't Mean They Shouldn't Be In Jail... WillyT Jan 2015 #242

I am loving the post hoc defense of Judith Miller and Scooter Libby, myself. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #12

My problem with Judith Miller involves making shit up for front page stories JonLP24 Jan 2015 #15

I was disgusted when James Risen made shit up about Wen Ho Lee. Why else do you msanthrope Jan 2015 #16

My position is more about "state secrets" being used to cover things up JonLP24 Jan 2015 #22

What was covered up here? Every trial document is available online. Merlin wasn't an msanthrope Jan 2015 #24

They absolutely can JonLP24 Jan 2015 #33

The emails, phone calls, and meetings between the two were fabricated? msanthrope Jan 2015 #38

No JonLP24 Jan 2015 #41

Um, no...that's not the only evidence. What say you as to the evidence presented with msanthrope Jan 2015 #44

I don't know, was it his name? JonLP24 Jan 2015 #45

Well...there was his motive. As prosecutors pointed out, once Merlin was msanthrope Jan 2015 #55

What's the name of Human Asset #1? riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #80

Have you stopped to consider that Human Asset #1 is an actual person? msanthrope Jan 2015 #95

Nope. You're claiming this is just like Judith Miller and Valerie Plame riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #108

Um....I don't have to back it up...it's the charge on the indictment he was msanthrope Jan 2015 #112

Yes I know. I'm focusing on your persistent charge that Sterling outed an agent riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #141

First and foremost....I've already given the indictment link. I can't make you msanthrope Jan 2015 #177

I've read it. It does not say Sterling gave Risen the guy's name. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #186

And So Is Every Person Who Believed In The American Myths We Were Told As Children... WillyT Jan 2015 #243

by that standard of yours bigtree Jan 2015 #83

Again...you make the mistake Wheeler did. You focus on the 'leak' but not on the msanthrope Jan 2015 #102

the Russian engineer, Merlin? bigtree Jan 2015 #123

You don't seem to understand that the Wheeler article is only talking about 7 of the 9 msanthrope Jan 2015 #128

show me the charge you're referring to bigtree Jan 2015 #133

I've already put the link to the indictment in the thread. I can't MAKE msanthrope Jan 2015 #137

no, not a document dump bigtree Jan 2015 #139

Okay--I can't physically make you read the charges in the indictment. That's true. msanthrope Jan 2015 #185

Have You Ever Served On A Jury ??? WillyT Jan 2015 #244

Willy...I'm an attorney. I pick juries. Federal grand juries are not msanthrope Jan 2015 #259

You never mention that article's co-author, NYT reporter Jeff Gerth, msanthrope. Why? Octafish Jan 2015 #27

Because Jeffy wasn't part of the legal cases in the 4th involving either Miller or Risen? msanthrope Jan 2015 #34

Because it may be Gerth who deserves your wrath, scorn, whatever for Wen Ho Lee, not Risen. Octafish Jan 2015 #47

Apologia for Mr. Risen, who was a Whitewater RW writer in his own right msanthrope Jan 2015 #49

Ah... Thanks For The Insight... WillyT Jan 2015 #51

Satire is getting harder to separate from a JAG rerun. Octafish Jan 2015 #52

Well, I'm really glad you have respect for the rule of law. How do you feel about the Government sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #106

Do police violate someone's rights when they shoot an armed suspect? randome Jan 2015 #110

Well, I have never seen any evidence that those Americans were guilty of anything. A teenager going sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #135

Espionage Act JonLP24 Jan 2015 #9

Traitors walk free. Whistleblowers get prison. Octafish Jan 2015 #10

I agree 100% JonLP24 Jan 2015 #19

How was this "whistleblowing?" Adrahil Jan 2015 #56

No, it's Congress' job. No. Wait. It's Sterling's job. No, no, still not right. Risen's? randome Jan 2015 #65

Seeing how Sterling went to Congress to express his concerns... Octafish Jan 2015 #67

more likely someone there was the source bigtree Jan 2015 #72

Without Risen on the stand, the Defense never had a chance. Octafish Jan 2015 #75

the government fought to keep him off the stand to limit his testimony about lies and deceptions bigtree Jan 2015 #78

As I understand it, the government fought to keep Risen's testimony out of the transcript. randome Jan 2015 #82

that's just speculation bigtree Jan 2015 #85

Risen would have been jailed if he refused to testify in a criminal matter. randome Jan 2015 #107

still just speculation on your part bigtree Jan 2015 #130

Okay, so they did. But didn't the judge then rule that only Risen's transcript would be redacted? randome Jan 2015 #136

The truth would negatively impact the Government's case against Sterling, so... Octafish Jan 2015 #84

The defense could have called Risen. There was no bar to that. The government's msanthrope Jan 2015 #134

it's still a strawman bigtree Jan 2015 #142

No--it's not. Federal juries are generally smart enough to make inferences from testimony--and lack msanthrope Jan 2015 #171

Risen already said he wasn't going to testify for anyone riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #146

Nonsense--the 4th circuit's denial of appeal CLEARLY stated that he was compelled to testify. The msanthrope Jan 2015 #168

Risen was prepared to go to jail. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #176

He should have gone to jail, just like Miller if he was going to let Sterling go to prison falsely. msanthrope Jan 2015 #179

I am not James Risen. Why don't you ask him? riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #188

Testify during the appeal? OMFG. msanthrope Jan 2015 #191

Risen was willing to go to jail. The Government apparently, especially after the show in France sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #227

No--Risen was not willing to go to jail, which is why he appealed over and over. As to the rest, msanthrope Jan 2015 #229

Of course he appealed it. Why was he even threatened with jail in a country that puts on such a sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #231

Since When ??? WillyT Jan 2015 #246

LOL.... Ok, Mr. Pollyanna.... Adrahil Jan 2015 #247

So... Say It Out Loud... Let The World Know... We Have Their Backs... We ARE The World's Police... WillyT Jan 2015 #248

You don't have to be the World Police.... Adrahil Jan 2015 #249

Why... The Rest Of The World Would Have Been Better Off If We Didn't Have One... WillyT Jan 2015 #251

in this case, the CIA was fabricating evidence of Iran's nuclear ambitions bigtree Jan 2015 #250

I haven't seen that allegation with regard to this case... Adrahil Jan 2015 #253

recap from above bigtree Jan 2015 #254

I think that's a misreading of what happened.... Adrahil Jan 2015 #255

only if you take the government's prosecution at face value, which you apparently do bigtree Jan 2015 #256

I'll look into it some more.... But the story doesn't make much sense to me. n/t Adrahil Jan 2015 #257

Risen's book outlines a pattern of deception by the U.S. intelligence agencies bigtree Jan 2015 #258

The big question is: why is Obama doing this? Maedhros Jan 2015 #29

Because He Knows The American Electorate... And His Underwear Is Wet Too... WillyT Jan 2015 #31

It was misused from the get go JonLP24 Jan 2015 #35

'Leaker' and 'whistleblower' are two different classifications. randome Jan 2015 #37

was Daniel Ellsberg a 'whistleblower' for leaking the Pentagon Papers? bigtree Jan 2015 #90

No doubt Ellsberg was a whistleblower. His actions saved lives. Sterling's actions endangered lives. randome Jan 2015 #93

actually, the government's actions endangered lives bigtree Jan 2015 #116

So Sterling outed an agent because Operation Merlin wasn't as flawless as he would have liked? randome Jan 2015 #131

first of all, the subject we were discussing was his intial report to Congress bigtree Jan 2015 #138

There was enough circumstantial evidence to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. randome Jan 2015 #150

answered in #116 bigtree Jan 2015 #156

'Dubious'. Right. Not illegal, just Sterling's desire to protect us years after the fact. randome Jan 2015 #159

you completely ignored the essence of Ellsberg's own efforts bigtree Jan 2015 #162

Actually Obama has gone after leakers and whistleblowers.. Feron Jan 2015 #92

Sorry, an article that equates Snowden with a whistleblower is blatantly biased. randome Jan 2015 #96

Having read the article..... blackspade Jan 2015 #53

It's not ridiculous. It's a mistake of law and fact to presume that circumstantial msanthrope Jan 2015 #54

Oh yeah? What do you know about law? Orrex Jan 2015 #57

I'm gonna ask Skittles to schedule you for an 'intervention.' msanthrope Jan 2015 #58

Sadly Orrex Jan 2015 #60

It's the new Libertarian streak at DU...the law simply doesn't apply to msanthrope Jan 2015 #61

and here your posts and a few others have me thinking of a different 'streak' at DU bigtree Jan 2015 #63

No! Not the dreaded 'A' word! randome Jan 2015 #64

apt response to the 'L' word bigtree Jan 2015 #71

Grok: Little Sister - the antidote to Big Brother Octafish Jan 2015 #77

excellent quote, thanks nt grasswire Jan 2015 #205

..... blackspade Jan 2015 #232

k&r bigtree Jan 2015 #62

K&R Thank you. woo me with science Jan 2015 #66

Propaganda Machine... Check Out The "Lawyers" At DU... WillyT Jan 2015 #68

Neither you nor I are biologists or medical professionals. randome Jan 2015 #69

Well... I'm So Very Happy For Your Not Being "Bitter"... WillyT Jan 2015 #70

There is the the law and their is justice Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #91

Hey willy...you wanna bring racial bona fides into this? msanthrope Jan 2015 #100

is there a link to that particular show somewhere on DU? nt grasswire Jan 2015 #140

Here---- msanthrope Jan 2015 #174

okay bigtree Jan 2015 #181

You know....you seem to be suggesting that Risen's lack of testimony let an innocent man go to msanthrope Jan 2015 #183

done bigtree Jan 2015 #184

Well--it's the obvious conclusion of what you write. You suggest that Risen's lack of testimony msanthrope Jan 2015 #187

Sterling and Risen are friends. Do you think Sterling wanted his friend in jail? riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #189

Would you face an 80 year jail term for a friend? Look--of course Risen could have forecasted this msanthrope Jan 2015 #193

Sorry my bad riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #194

No--you misunderstand....the defense had no bar, at all, to Risen being called to the stand. msanthrope Jan 2015 #197

Do-over! randome Jan 2015 #196

Prescisely!!! nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #216

"Would you face an 80 year jail term for a friend?" WillyT Jan 2015 #252

you're claiming that show as a cred... grasswire Jan 2015 #208

I ain't your monkey. msanthrope Jan 2015 #209

Uhm, you could be anyone pretending. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #145

Look--I've said this before to posters....if you think I'm lying about being an Obama campaign msanthrope Jan 2015 #173

Some of the responses to the OP are hilarious..... marmar Jan 2015 #73

Word !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #74

Some of the associations going back to Smirko Madministration become clear, as well. Octafish Jan 2015 #76

Investigation of Sterling began under Bush. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #147

He was charged December 2010. This is all on Obama riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #152

he filed a racial discrimination suit in 2000. That's when it began. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #154

It was the Obama Admin that decided to charge him in 2010 riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #167

Don't you miss Hannah Bell on these threads? nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #200

Even with you reminding us, yes. Octafish Jan 2015 #212

Hannah Bell is a banned troll..and you are missing the joke in the thread. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #213

"it's a continuation" = exactly my point ND-Dem Jan 2015 #241

Nice to see you again. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #260

Oh, I see this all the time Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #87

Cognitive Dissonance Writ Large.... KoKo Jan 2015 #245

Dealing nuclear blueprints to the Iranians is illegal WDIM Jan 2015 #163

+ Infinity Octafish Jan 2015 #233

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #235

kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #261

kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #262

kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #263