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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
212. Even with you reminding us, yes.
Thu Jan 29, 2015, 04:07 PM
Jan 2015

Hannah Bell posted important information that shows the warmongers and banksters for what they are.

For instance:

Obama follows Bush’s modus operandi on Iran

And while I don't know who is correct on this and the other issues we can no longer get from Hannah Bell, I do know I prefer Hannah Bell's perspective over yours, msanthrope. You see, Hannah Bell wants me to hear the other side. You don't.

If this were a police state, you would not have the freedom to post what you just did Glassunion Jan 2015 #1
After reading your headline, I was about to go off on you . . . markpkessinger Jan 2015 #13
I know you are being sarcastic, but I wish to remind DU of Hannah Arendt's observation that KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #127
+1 Scuba Jan 2015 #172
Thanks.... daleanime Jan 2015 #201
Probably also with the "encouragement" of the populace to visit taboo places erronis Jan 2015 #221
My sarcasm was not a jab at the state of things, but one at those who say they have Glassunion Jan 2015 #224
Yeah, I got that. I wished to underline the serious point I thought (correctly) you were KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #226
+ 1,000,000,000 WillyT Jan 2015 #236
My head hurts. nt Mnemosyne Jan 2015 #2
No secret ... GeorgeGist Jan 2015 #3
+1 Rex Jan 2015 #17
Great article. Really spells it all out. Thanks for this Willy! K&R nt riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #4
You Are Quite Welcome... WillyT Jan 2015 #14
KICK AND REC AND BOOKMARK FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY AND THE NATION. Octafish Jan 2015 #5
How can anyone defend this miscarriage of justice? elias49 Jan 2015 #6
Well, except for that pesky trial and the jury and the judge and stuff. randome Jan 2015 #7
You're talking about an outdated Espionage Act passed during the red scare JonLP24 Jan 2015 #8
randome may be conflicted when it comes to the law of the land. Octafish Jan 2015 #11
He is concerned about the 1st Amendment? News to me. Rex Jan 2015 #18
The Constitution is not immutable. And Sterling's case has nothing to do with it. randome Jan 2015 #21
It's got everything to do with the Constitution. Octafish Jan 2015 #25
'Embarrassed'? So you don't care about the agent who was outed? randome Jan 2015 #26
What's the name of that agent? riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #79
No idea. What difference does the name make? randome Jan 2015 #81
Uhm you're the one who said Sterling outed his own agent. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #86
'Outing' an agent means giving the name to someone who is not authorized to know it. randome Jan 2015 #101
Provide me with the facts that back you up riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #111
I may not have everything right, no problem admitting that. randome Jan 2015 #113
In the indictment, Sterling's book proposal is detailed. Some posters here are msanthrope Jan 2015 #114
Thank you. It's helpful to know my confusion is not completely without merit. randome Jan 2015 #117
Well... OP article is a lesson to those who would quote such a sloppy source.... msanthrope Jan 2015 #122
She did. Read the article. Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #195
But she only discussed 7 counts--ignoring the other 2, and thus, from this thread, it's pretty msanthrope Jan 2015 #199
sterling doesn't have a book. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #115
Sterling has a book proposal only. Risen has the published book riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #120
By specifying how the agent delivered secret messages, Sterling in effect outed him/her. randome Jan 2015 #126
Oh FFS, now you're just making shit up. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #129
Now I remember where I found that: in the article linked to by the OP. randome Jan 2015 #203
'Google is surprisingly unhelpful in putting it all together comprehensively.' Rex Jan 2015 #220
I probably understand it as well as anyone who is not an attorney. randome Jan 2015 #223
When did outing an agent become illegal? When Plame was outed by Novak, it took the prosecutor hughee99 Jan 2015 #143
Novak was a journalist and so was given 'extra-special-super-duper' consideration. randome Jan 2015 #144
Gone to jail too? The leaker didn't even go to jail! hughee99 Jan 2015 #158
He should have gone to jail like Sterling. randome Jan 2015 #160
They can't even back up that charge riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #149
From the indictment. randome Jan 2015 #155
so the 'Human Asset' was the Russian? bigtree Jan 2015 #165
Compromising an identity is not 'greivous harm' but it is potentially dangerous. randome Jan 2015 #166
most crimes require some proof of harm actually done bigtree Jan 2015 #169
I see nothing there that Sterling outed an agent. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #170
we're making the assumption, for the sake of argument bigtree Jan 2015 #175
I understand. I'm just attacking even that base premise nt riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #178
Assumption? He was convicted. You may make an assumption, but understand something..... msanthrope Jan 2015 #182
It's also circumstantial to see someone holding a smoking gun but without seeing the gun fired. randome Jan 2015 #180
interesting bigtree Jan 2015 #190
Interesting it has been. randome Jan 2015 #192
Congress said "meh" Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #88
What war crimes are implied by Sterling? None that I'm aware of. randome Jan 2015 #98
Sorry, you are correct, digging into the facts Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #105
Hence, the conviction. Octafish Jan 2015 #119
I'm on your side Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #124
The only ones who don't recognize this as a vicious vindictive act riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #132
Yep. Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #151
And they seem to be the ones that defend the NSA/CIA with unusual vigor Rex Jan 2015 #222
No, I'm talking about a national security agent giving away national security secrets. randome Jan 2015 #20
You said except for the law, jury, judge, etc its a police state JonLP24 Jan 2015 #23
He was also punished for outing an agent. randome Jan 2015 #28
80 Years ??? - How... Reasonable Of You... WillyT Jan 2015 #30
Don't expect me to support that kind of sentencing. I don't. randome Jan 2015 #32
You Don't See Something Wrong With The System ??? WillyT Jan 2015 #36
Juries -both on DU and in the judicial system- are not perfect. randome Jan 2015 #42
Even If That Information Was Publicly Available ??? And How Come The FBI... WillyT Jan 2015 #46
The government pressed Risen to reveal his sources. When he refused, they basically gave up. randome Jan 2015 #48
And Maybe... Just Maybe... The Reason Some Will "willingly obfuscate and deflect." WillyT Jan 2015 #50
Tell us how interdicting Iran's nuclear capacity is un-American? nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #59
Interdicting AMERICA'S Nuclear Program May Be Un-American... Iran Has It's Own Sovereignty... WillyT Jan 2015 #237
I certainly wouldn't want Congress to decide what's good for the American people JonLP24 Jan 2015 #39
I don't think we had whistleblower protections back then, did we? randome Jan 2015 #40
We have far less than we did then as evidenced by this thread JonLP24 Jan 2015 #43
Thank You For That !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #238
Huh? Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #89
His book that he was trying to sell. randome Jan 2015 #94
But there is no mention of "selling" secrets in the indictment or conviction Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #97
Yes, it is. Using classified intel as a means to gain money is the same, IMO. randome Jan 2015 #99
To clarify: My question was whether he Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #103
My arguments are NOT based on strict readings of the law since I'm not an attorney. randome Jan 2015 #104
Well, that was going to be my next question Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #109
His book was his memoirs that the CIA refused to give him permission to publish. randome Jan 2015 #210
Actually...Sterling's attempt to publish is in the indictment...there's also msanthrope Jan 2015 #118
Thanks, I guess I will have to plow Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #121
I blame Wheeler on this one..she should have disclosed to her msanthrope Jan 2015 #125
Thank you for the link Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #148
Msanthrope did not read the article. Wheeler does indeed, at the beginning of the article Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #198
But it's apparent from this thread that Wheeler is unclear--and I blame Wheeler, rather than DUers msanthrope Jan 2015 #207
No, it is clear that people are discussing the Espionage Act charges. The focus of Wheeler's article Luminous Animal Jan 2015 #217
Thank you for admitting that Wheeler is selectively discussing the charges. And I think that proves msanthrope Jan 2015 #219
Quoting inaccurately and making false statements in order to further her agenda? bvar22 Jan 2015 #228
LOL !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #239
Randome is a master of Aerows Jan 2015 #206
I am a 'master' at nothing other than my ability to look at all the fine print. randome Jan 2015 #211
There is a difference Aerows Jan 2015 #215
Their goal is not to convince anyone of anything. bvar22 Jan 2015 #230
Just thought I'd point it out Aerows Jan 2015 #234
Gotta Agree... WillyT Jan 2015 #240
Let me see if I can figure out what you are saying here. Aerows Jan 2015 #153
Is it difficult to admit it's possible that Congress blew him off because there was nothing illegal? randome Jan 2015 #157
LOL Aerows Jan 2015 #161
I have never defended torture. randome Jan 2015 #164
Anyone that ardently defends Aerows Jan 2015 #202
But we DO know that people were tortured in our name. Much to our shame. randome Jan 2015 #204
You are doing it again. Aerows Jan 2015 #214
Virtually no one is talking about torture today. randome Jan 2015 #218
Did you see the date on those 2 Aerows Jan 2015 #225
Nobody Wants To Talk About Their Pedophile Uncle Either... Doesn't Mean They Shouldn't Be In Jail... WillyT Jan 2015 #242
I am loving the post hoc defense of Judith Miller and Scooter Libby, myself. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #12
My problem with Judith Miller involves making shit up for front page stories JonLP24 Jan 2015 #15
I was disgusted when James Risen made shit up about Wen Ho Lee. Why else do you msanthrope Jan 2015 #16
My position is more about "state secrets" being used to cover things up JonLP24 Jan 2015 #22
What was covered up here? Every trial document is available online. Merlin wasn't an msanthrope Jan 2015 #24
They absolutely can JonLP24 Jan 2015 #33
The emails, phone calls, and meetings between the two were fabricated? msanthrope Jan 2015 #38
No JonLP24 Jan 2015 #41
Um, no...that's not the only evidence. What say you as to the evidence presented with msanthrope Jan 2015 #44
I don't know, was it his name? JonLP24 Jan 2015 #45
Well...there was his motive. As prosecutors pointed out, once Merlin was msanthrope Jan 2015 #55
What's the name of Human Asset #1? riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #80
Have you stopped to consider that Human Asset #1 is an actual person? msanthrope Jan 2015 #95
Nope. You're claiming this is just like Judith Miller and Valerie Plame riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #108
Um....I don't have to back it up...it's the charge on the indictment he was msanthrope Jan 2015 #112
Yes I know. I'm focusing on your persistent charge that Sterling outed an agent riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #141
First and foremost....I've already given the indictment link. I can't make you msanthrope Jan 2015 #177
I've read it. It does not say Sterling gave Risen the guy's name. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #186
And So Is Every Person Who Believed In The American Myths We Were Told As Children... WillyT Jan 2015 #243
by that standard of yours bigtree Jan 2015 #83
Again...you make the mistake Wheeler did. You focus on the 'leak' but not on the msanthrope Jan 2015 #102
the Russian engineer, Merlin? bigtree Jan 2015 #123
You don't seem to understand that the Wheeler article is only talking about 7 of the 9 msanthrope Jan 2015 #128
show me the charge you're referring to bigtree Jan 2015 #133
I've already put the link to the indictment in the thread. I can't MAKE msanthrope Jan 2015 #137
no, not a document dump bigtree Jan 2015 #139
Okay--I can't physically make you read the charges in the indictment. That's true. msanthrope Jan 2015 #185
Have You Ever Served On A Jury ??? WillyT Jan 2015 #244
Willy...I'm an attorney. I pick juries. Federal grand juries are not msanthrope Jan 2015 #259
You never mention that article's co-author, NYT reporter Jeff Gerth, msanthrope. Why? Octafish Jan 2015 #27
Because Jeffy wasn't part of the legal cases in the 4th involving either Miller or Risen? msanthrope Jan 2015 #34
Because it may be Gerth who deserves your wrath, scorn, whatever for Wen Ho Lee, not Risen. Octafish Jan 2015 #47
Apologia for Mr. Risen, who was a Whitewater RW writer in his own right msanthrope Jan 2015 #49
Ah... Thanks For The Insight... WillyT Jan 2015 #51
Satire is getting harder to separate from a JAG rerun. Octafish Jan 2015 #52
Well, I'm really glad you have respect for the rule of law. How do you feel about the Government sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #106
Do police violate someone's rights when they shoot an armed suspect? randome Jan 2015 #110
Well, I have never seen any evidence that those Americans were guilty of anything. A teenager going sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #135
Espionage Act JonLP24 Jan 2015 #9
Traitors walk free. Whistleblowers get prison. Octafish Jan 2015 #10
I agree 100% JonLP24 Jan 2015 #19
How was this "whistleblowing?" Adrahil Jan 2015 #56
No, it's Congress' job. No. Wait. It's Sterling's job. No, no, still not right. Risen's? randome Jan 2015 #65
Seeing how Sterling went to Congress to express his concerns... Octafish Jan 2015 #67
more likely someone there was the source bigtree Jan 2015 #72
Without Risen on the stand, the Defense never had a chance. Octafish Jan 2015 #75
the government fought to keep him off the stand to limit his testimony about lies and deceptions bigtree Jan 2015 #78
As I understand it, the government fought to keep Risen's testimony out of the transcript. randome Jan 2015 #82
that's just speculation bigtree Jan 2015 #85
Risen would have been jailed if he refused to testify in a criminal matter. randome Jan 2015 #107
still just speculation on your part bigtree Jan 2015 #130
Okay, so they did. But didn't the judge then rule that only Risen's transcript would be redacted? randome Jan 2015 #136
The truth would negatively impact the Government's case against Sterling, so... Octafish Jan 2015 #84
The defense could have called Risen. There was no bar to that. The government's msanthrope Jan 2015 #134
it's still a strawman bigtree Jan 2015 #142
No--it's not. Federal juries are generally smart enough to make inferences from testimony--and lack msanthrope Jan 2015 #171
Risen already said he wasn't going to testify for anyone riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #146
Nonsense--the 4th circuit's denial of appeal CLEARLY stated that he was compelled to testify. The msanthrope Jan 2015 #168
Risen was prepared to go to jail. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #176
He should have gone to jail, just like Miller if he was going to let Sterling go to prison falsely. msanthrope Jan 2015 #179
I am not James Risen. Why don't you ask him? riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #188
Testify during the appeal? OMFG. msanthrope Jan 2015 #191
Risen was willing to go to jail. The Government apparently, especially after the show in France sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #227
No--Risen was not willing to go to jail, which is why he appealed over and over. As to the rest, msanthrope Jan 2015 #229
Of course he appealed it. Why was he even threatened with jail in a country that puts on such a sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #231
Since When ??? WillyT Jan 2015 #246
LOL.... Ok, Mr. Pollyanna.... Adrahil Jan 2015 #247
So... Say It Out Loud... Let The World Know... We Have Their Backs... We ARE The World's Police... WillyT Jan 2015 #248
You don't have to be the World Police.... Adrahil Jan 2015 #249
Why... The Rest Of The World Would Have Been Better Off If We Didn't Have One... WillyT Jan 2015 #251
in this case, the CIA was fabricating evidence of Iran's nuclear ambitions bigtree Jan 2015 #250
I haven't seen that allegation with regard to this case... Adrahil Jan 2015 #253
recap from above bigtree Jan 2015 #254
I think that's a misreading of what happened.... Adrahil Jan 2015 #255
only if you take the government's prosecution at face value, which you apparently do bigtree Jan 2015 #256
I'll look into it some more.... But the story doesn't make much sense to me. n/t Adrahil Jan 2015 #257
Risen's book outlines a pattern of deception by the U.S. intelligence agencies bigtree Jan 2015 #258
The big question is: why is Obama doing this? Maedhros Jan 2015 #29
Because He Knows The American Electorate... And His Underwear Is Wet Too... WillyT Jan 2015 #31
It was misused from the get go JonLP24 Jan 2015 #35
'Leaker' and 'whistleblower' are two different classifications. randome Jan 2015 #37
was Daniel Ellsberg a 'whistleblower' for leaking the Pentagon Papers? bigtree Jan 2015 #90
No doubt Ellsberg was a whistleblower. His actions saved lives. Sterling's actions endangered lives. randome Jan 2015 #93
actually, the government's actions endangered lives bigtree Jan 2015 #116
So Sterling outed an agent because Operation Merlin wasn't as flawless as he would have liked? randome Jan 2015 #131
first of all, the subject we were discussing was his intial report to Congress bigtree Jan 2015 #138
There was enough circumstantial evidence to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. randome Jan 2015 #150
answered in #116 bigtree Jan 2015 #156
'Dubious'. Right. Not illegal, just Sterling's desire to protect us years after the fact. randome Jan 2015 #159
you completely ignored the essence of Ellsberg's own efforts bigtree Jan 2015 #162
Actually Obama has gone after leakers and whistleblowers.. Feron Jan 2015 #92
Sorry, an article that equates Snowden with a whistleblower is blatantly biased. randome Jan 2015 #96
Having read the article..... blackspade Jan 2015 #53
It's not ridiculous. It's a mistake of law and fact to presume that circumstantial msanthrope Jan 2015 #54
Oh yeah? What do you know about law? Orrex Jan 2015 #57
I'm gonna ask Skittles to schedule you for an 'intervention.' msanthrope Jan 2015 #58
Sadly Orrex Jan 2015 #60
It's the new Libertarian streak at DU...the law simply doesn't apply to msanthrope Jan 2015 #61
and here your posts and a few others have me thinking of a different 'streak' at DU bigtree Jan 2015 #63
No! Not the dreaded 'A' word! randome Jan 2015 #64
apt response to the 'L' word bigtree Jan 2015 #71
Grok: Little Sister - the antidote to Big Brother Octafish Jan 2015 #77
excellent quote, thanks nt grasswire Jan 2015 #205
..... blackspade Jan 2015 #232
k&r bigtree Jan 2015 #62
K&R Thank you. woo me with science Jan 2015 #66
Propaganda Machine... Check Out The "Lawyers" At DU... WillyT Jan 2015 #68
Neither you nor I are biologists or medical professionals. randome Jan 2015 #69
Well... I'm So Very Happy For Your Not Being "Bitter"... WillyT Jan 2015 #70
There is the the law and their is justice Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #91
Hey willy...you wanna bring racial bona fides into this? msanthrope Jan 2015 #100
is there a link to that particular show somewhere on DU? nt grasswire Jan 2015 #140
Here---- msanthrope Jan 2015 #174
okay bigtree Jan 2015 #181
You know....you seem to be suggesting that Risen's lack of testimony let an innocent man go to msanthrope Jan 2015 #183
done bigtree Jan 2015 #184
Well--it's the obvious conclusion of what you write. You suggest that Risen's lack of testimony msanthrope Jan 2015 #187
Sterling and Risen are friends. Do you think Sterling wanted his friend in jail? riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #189
Would you face an 80 year jail term for a friend? Look--of course Risen could have forecasted this msanthrope Jan 2015 #193
Sorry my bad riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #194
No--you misunderstand....the defense had no bar, at all, to Risen being called to the stand. msanthrope Jan 2015 #197
Do-over! randome Jan 2015 #196
Prescisely!!! nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #216
"Would you face an 80 year jail term for a friend?" WillyT Jan 2015 #252
you're claiming that show as a cred... grasswire Jan 2015 #208
I ain't your monkey. msanthrope Jan 2015 #209
Uhm, you could be anyone pretending. riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #145
Look--I've said this before to posters....if you think I'm lying about being an Obama campaign msanthrope Jan 2015 #173
Some of the responses to the OP are hilarious..... marmar Jan 2015 #73
Word !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #74
Some of the associations going back to Smirko Madministration become clear, as well. Octafish Jan 2015 #76
Investigation of Sterling began under Bush. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #147
He was charged December 2010. This is all on Obama riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #152
he filed a racial discrimination suit in 2000. That's when it began. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #154
It was the Obama Admin that decided to charge him in 2010 riderinthestorm Jan 2015 #167
Don't you miss Hannah Bell on these threads? nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #200
Even with you reminding us, yes. Octafish Jan 2015 #212
Hannah Bell is a banned troll..and you are missing the joke in the thread. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #213
"it's a continuation" = exactly my point ND-Dem Jan 2015 #241
Nice to see you again. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #260
Oh, I see this all the time Kelvin Mace Jan 2015 #87
Cognitive Dissonance Writ Large.... KoKo Jan 2015 #245
Dealing nuclear blueprints to the Iranians is illegal WDIM Jan 2015 #163
+ Infinity Octafish Jan 2015 #233
+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT Jan 2015 #235
kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #261
kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #262
kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #263
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