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In reply to the discussion: Pres. Obama tells Dems, on TTP: "Get informed, not by reading the Huffington Post" [View all]Joe Turner
(930 posts)280. Anything this big and far reaching has to be debated
in congress and be open for amendments. Why are you consumed with quibbling about irrelevant minutia of the restrictions on even reading the TPP? Who are you spinning for? You are totally ridiculous.
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Pres. Obama tells Dems, on TTP: "Get informed, not by reading the Huffington Post" [View all]
bigtree
Jan 2015
OP
Has he explained how these Democrats are supposed to 'get informed' when they have been
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#11
Every single member of Congress has the right to review the TTP drafts. Some have taken the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#48
Well, we know they have RIGHT, but we know, unless Wyden et al are all liars, they have been DENIED
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#62
Nonsense--Elizabeth Warren has been reading the drafts. You seem to be confused.....
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#65
Right--they can't. Which is also standard procedure for many other pieces of legislation, like the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#138
Aerows, can you name the other countries in this agreement? You think they might have security
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#152
So every member of Congress has the right to see them under extraordinary
MannyGoldstein
Jan 2015
#188
There isn't a final bill to review. And no....I'm really glad Ted Cruz's staffers can't review this
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#193
It's a national security is because we've included other countries and nearly 500 outside sources
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#245
Thank you, Aerows. I appreciate your well reasoned arguments in this thread.
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#406
Elizabeth Warren was told that public opposition would be significant for the TPP if
think
Jan 2015
#235
It's not my argument. You don't seem to know much about the history of this issue. The Congressional
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#300
There is today a world full of low wage workers even without the TPP. I do not think the intent of
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#309
Are you arguing then to make things WORSE? It is the job of our GOVERNMENT not of Global Corporatio
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#314
If Elizabeth Warren would change her mind and decide to support the TPP, my support for her
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#404
She's an important voice in this debate--one I listen too. The thing is, as I've written previously
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#488
Very condescending, as if members of Congress were children. Especially considering the YEARS during
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#438
Every single member of Congress has access to the draft TPP. Some have taken the time to read
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#76
I don't have a financial adviser, Aerows. And I index. If I could turn prospecti into toilet paper
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#119
fast track means limited debate and zero amendments on a bill already signed by the President
bigtree
Jan 2015
#150
Yes--I've already said I think no amendments is a feature, not a bug on fast track.
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#153
in support of fast-track you are blocking Democrats from influencing this trade pact
bigtree
Jan 2015
#175
I don't think the Democrats have the numbers to cloture amendments that would benefit. You forget..
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#191
you're claiming, on one hand, that Congress has a right to review - on the other you dismiss them
bigtree
Jan 2015
#162
just 'review' a draft, not the final language; not so with numerous corporate representatives
bigtree
Jan 2015
#189
Lol, so in your opinion, this is how democracy works. Foreign Corporatins, NOT out Legislative Body,
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#492
My dear, you must take it up with the forefathers who wrote Article 2, Section 2, Clause 2. nt
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#495
The forefathers are dead. They would roll over in their graves, if they were to visit the country
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#499
Some sharing of the final draft with the public is overdue. I suppose there is a legal constraint if
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#128
They don't have a final. The drafts are available to every member of Congress, though. nt
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#132
In Reply 101, you cite as authoritative the source you dissed in Reply 1 as uninformative.
merrily
Jan 2015
#149
No--merely noting that it was used on DU. I suspect that even HuffPo can transcribe
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#155
Not exactly. Aerows asked you the source of your info and, as reply to Aerow's inquiry, you
merrily
Jan 2015
#173
Shame on you for actually being informed about the topic you're discussing!!...
SidDithers
Jan 2015
#202
Did you catch the part where Google is keeping secret the names of the other signatories?
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#243
Well..FDL tells them there's a problem, so there must be one. Funny...no one wants
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#246
Look here, Bub, if your Rep or Senator doesn't have a photographic memory it is on you
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#361
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#445
Did he tell those Democrats HOW they can inform themselves considering they have been DENIED
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#14
There have been leaks, damn whistle blowers again, and we know some of what is in there, relating
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#18
Every member of Congress can see it--they merely have to abide by the security procedures. nt
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#51
Yes, and several of those that have seen it (can't take notes 'natch) have...
stillwaiting
Jan 2015
#54
And I think we should listen to all voices---and thanks for confirming my point--
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#61
I don't know everything about it--but I do know who has access to it---every member of Congress,
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#80
Right--and when you deal with 12 odd countries, that's how things work. Jeebus, they can take a
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#148
Oh, lordy....those restrictions have to do with the nature of the very democratic Congress and the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#87
As I have said previously on DU this Agreement apparently includes quite a bit that goes well above
stillwaiting
Jan 2015
#116
What goes above is national security issues, which makes the secrecy all the more
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#129
Oh--I agree with Krugman. We should have strong suspicions. But we shouldn't panic and lose our
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#142
Tell me you are being sarcastic? He tells people to get smart on an agreement that
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#31
I'm sure your Prime Minister and parliament are interested in your feedback and support.
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#501
Oh we can use that ol lightning fast freedom of information thingy...with no redaction's too.
L0oniX
Jan 2015
#289
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#447
Every single congressperson has access to the drafts. Not all of them have staff access
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#67
Trust you and your nose about what? Sounds folksy but I'm not clear on what the point is.
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#446
Nonsense....Alan Grayson, like every single member of Congress, has the right to review
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#64
well, not in this case. Sen Sanders said members "have little or no knowledge as to what is in it,’
bigtree
Jan 2015
#78
I'd be very concerned about the republican majority and corporate-minded Dems passing fast-track
bigtree
Jan 2015
#143
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#448
Deflection. One can only guess what motivates your position. How wi the trade deal benefit you, your
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#491
I agree with him completely. He has done nothing to think he's selling us down the river.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#6
You mean like Ron Wyden? So 'just trust us' is good enough for the Trade Committee
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#23
In other words, since he has done nothing to explain how this will help the 99%,
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#38
Hopefully any agreement will set the stage for trade in the 21st Century. I hope we are a major
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#56
None on the Left "fear" Obama, they just want him to be accountable as any
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#216
When we find ourselves with millions of our children living in poverty, it isn't good enough
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#226
Those that support the President will not speak to facts only tell us to have Faith. nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#326
Canada and Mexico are part of the deal -- that would change/replace NAFTA. He's crafty ain't he.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#337
Is that all you have to post. What about fact you totally missed that TPP IS REDOING NAFTA?
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#343
Why do you think that? I agree things aren't as well as they were a few decades ago, but it
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#348
It is because of NAFTA. NAFTA contributed to the Race to the Bottom. If the President continues
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#401
I think NAFTA was more trying to preserve what we had and slow your so-called "race to the bottom."
Hoyt
Feb 2015
#440
I would believe what I want rather than what the corporations wish me to believe.
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#441
Well, I am sure letting the world pass us by -- by sitting on the sidelines -- won't help us.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#339
Doing nothing won't help, sorry. Plus, there are working class people in other countries too.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#351
Right, that's why wages & benefits are going down; because free trade raises standards!
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#473
When will he stand up for US workers and against the interests of multinational corporations?
Enthusiast
Feb 2015
#420
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#449
He's certainly more credible than the quacks who are spreading TPP disinformation.
Ykcutnek
Jan 2015
#10
So you can't back up your statement? How do you know that the information they are spreading
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#45
Well, I would not call MannyGoldstein a "quack", but he did make a very serious mistake
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#69
I'm willing to get all het up about the TPP, once I get some accurate information about what I
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#115
Ron Wyden is a 'quack'? All those Dems on the Trade Committee are 'quacks'? When did Democratic
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#29
All the outrage over secret negotiations over trade where liberals are well represented but not quite so much
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#74
Like I said, I trust Obama, that includes more than anonymous comments on the Internet.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#94
Ron Wyden is not anonymous, neither are Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Alan Grayson among so many
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#292
So, to be clear your position is that Ron Wyden is an internet crank because that
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#332
i doubt few of the posters pushing tpp do it because of childish devotion to politicians.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#468
I'm not following you. We are talking in this thread about the secret agreement being crafted by
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#295
I was not aware that Congress was being illegally denied access to draft accords or documents.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#307
This is waaaaay more than a mere "trade agreement". And the warrior for the lower
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#315
My full faith and trust also. Evidence to the contrary does not yet exist to change my mind.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#126
But he isn't doing what he said he believed in. He isn't trying to make this process more
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#486
Do you say anything substantive or just tell us that you blindly trust Pres Obama? nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#291
Sorry to hear that. I was hoping you'd share with us some good reason to support the TPP. nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#313
He has effectively asserted that he will engage in "double think" if required
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#502
I understand the need in some to "just go along" w/o thinking. In these trying times it is
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#505
The US negotiating position will require Vietnam et. al. to raise their minimum wage
Recursion
Jan 2015
#278
Well, since as I pointed out he's not "saying the opposite" I can't answer your question
Recursion
Jan 2015
#294
What do you do for a living? How will this costly trade deal benefit you?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#450
People have tried to 'get informed' but the current version of the TPP isn't readily available. n/t
PoliticAverse
Jan 2015
#12
I am sure Obama genuinely believes the TPP will be good for America. I don't know if he's right.
Donald Ian Rankin
Jan 2015
#16
Excuse me but he 'can't let our current Congress negotiate details'. Are they not the
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#39
Excuse me, I'm talking about during negotiations to get a final agreement that would be presented
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#43
Obama does not have Fast-Track authority and he's unlikely to get it. In any event,
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#178
"The Top Secret Trade Deal You Need to Know About..Moyers & Company" --Dean Baker/Yves Smith
KoKo
Jan 2015
#267
Well, I may be stupid and you may be much smarter than I am, so could 'analyze' the part
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#44
Aw, you are very kind, Octafish. But there are a whole lot of people who I'm sure, would disagree.
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#287
How about Clinton's Secretary of Labor, Robert Reich? "Why the TPP is a Pending Disaster"
KoKo
Jan 2015
#60
All I can say is that, unlike the last link, he's not obviously a crank.
Donald Ian Rankin
Jan 2015
#86
Well, then, it's a good opportunity to go back to "Public Citizens'" Link and inform yourself...
KoKo
Jan 2015
#103
The professional trade economists are cheerleaders for the race to the bottom.
Elwood P Dowd
Jan 2015
#140
What is logically wrong with "I think this is a bad thing, based on past experience these things
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#354
Yup, given enough opportunities real mistakes would on occasion benefit workers
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#509
There has been adequate analysis by learned individuals from a number of disciplines.
Maedhros
Feb 2015
#480
What you have done is limited your acceptable inputs to a group that is chock full
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#503
I think if it's soley about trade and economics, it's a matter of scholarship on some levels
bigtree
Jan 2015
#28
Don't make a 'case'. Publish every last bit of the TPP a year in advance and let us decide
on point
Jan 2015
#21
'There is no red state or blue state just the United Corporate neo Liberalism states of america
Ichingcarpenter
Jan 2015
#24
"Get informed, not by reading the Huffington Post..." but by reading...what, exactly?
Iggo
Jan 2015
#35
WHEN were they made available?? For years Congress has been denied access and have relied on leaks
sabrina 1
Jan 2015
#311
OK. How about the details of the negotiations so far and future negotiations in public?
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jan 2015
#40
I suspect we will see it when it's done. Right now, every member of Congress has access to the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#71
you'll see it when it's done. isn't that reassuring? good to know the masters watch over us.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#478
Every single member of Congress has access to the drafts. We see it when the drafting is done. nt
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#108
Yes. Congresspeople can read it. Sanders is complaining that his staff can't read it (yet)
Recursion
Jan 2015
#277
I *think* it also precludes a filibuster, but I'm not entirely clear on that
Recursion
Jan 2015
#283
"We share same values and are looking out for the same people" Then why so secretive??
madfloridian
Jan 2015
#91
Apparently folks know all about it, and what it does -- notwithstanding, it's far from complete.
Hoyt
Jan 2015
#102
Huffington Post is as reliable as any of the TV MSM or print media for that matter.
Enthusiast
Jan 2015
#341
My opinion of Cass Sunstein?? From 2008 He said keep harmony protect Bush. BS
madfloridian
Jan 2015
#164
Pointing and shouting "Conspiracy Theorists" is a favorite tactic of those that don't believe in
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#316
Exactly, because we all know there never are any conspiracies in Washington DC politics. nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#356
You'll see it when it's done. In the meantime, every single member of Congress has access to the
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#106
The Republicans in Congress that favor the TPP clearly are looking out for the same people that...
stillwaiting
Jan 2015
#141
Among the people who have covered the TPP for Huffington Post are Lori Wallach and Robert Reich.
pa28
Jan 2015
#125
Huffpo has published info from Grayson and others re: TPP. So, I guess Huffpo had to go under the
merrily
Jan 2015
#146
So how many "trade pacts" or "free trade agreements", have really benefited all of America?
SoapBox
Jan 2015
#168
Pres. Obama tells Dems, on TTP: "Get informed, not by reading the Huffington Post"
The CCC
Jan 2015
#183
"keep our powder dry"? what is this, 2007? are they no longer able to come up with new ways to say
MisterP
Jan 2015
#187
again, the goal's not to convince anyone, or even to stay in charge of the terms of discourse
MisterP
Jan 2015
#238
Its rather obvious for us that are independent thinkers and independent researchers.
Ichingcarpenter
Jan 2015
#240
Do you know how recently that happened? Because there had been complaints about secrecy.
merrily
Jan 2015
#228
The State Dept website currently returns 805 docs for "Trans-Pacific Partnership"
ucrdem
Jan 2015
#259
You say 805 docs are available and from your "It doesn't take a lot of reading" you believe
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#324
I think few Congressfolk have read the 802 documents, they are very busy taking sides.
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#334
Yes, I understand that point of view. But I think this is a different kind of deal.
ucrdem
Jan 2015
#272
I would ask one of the Beltway pundits if they have read through the American objectives of the TPP?
Fred Sanders
Jan 2015
#344
Those are "objectives" they mean nothing. Zero. Zilch. Tell me what the document
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#459
Well we could GET informed if they would release the text of the agreement. Very shitty tactic
Autumn
Jan 2015
#305
This thread provides a great example of the split in the Democratic Party.
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#319
This thread provides a great example of a few things, but not what you're talking about.
Jeff Rosenzweig
Jan 2015
#350
It would be swell if the Democratic Party was united and Progressive. But the reality
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#355
You've never bothered with expressing any facts. Let me know when you wish to discuss
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#389
This isn't about me. I accept your derision. But do you think that Sen Sanders
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#377
"Wait and see" and "we'll fix it later" are the political versions of the "four corners" offense in
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#456
Why would Democrats and Republicans alike (as you admit) push harmful policies like this?
TheKentuckian
Jan 2015
#371
So far no one that supports the TPP has argued with facts. They expect Blind Faith. nm
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#327
My arguments are that we shouldn't ram this thru w/o knowing what the impact will be.
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#373
The TPP is a secret set of laws unavailable to the American public, we can agree?
grahamhgreen
Feb 2015
#504
It's a bad sign. I also see this organized DU push back against criticism as a bad sign.
Enthusiast
Jan 2015
#346
Indeed. Those who want what's best for the country that also happen to be Democratic policies
RiverLover
Feb 2015
#442
Where would you like us to read about a secret agreement, Mr President?
lumberjack_jeff
Jan 2015
#335
This offers zero assurances of any kind of protection. It's rhetoric at it's finest.
rhett o rick
Jan 2015
#359
Well, the parallel system in NAFTA has allowed US and Canadian unions to sue Mexico dozens of times
Recursion
Jan 2015
#385
This goes beyond workers' rights. This allows corporations to sue countries if
djean111
Feb 2015
#408
Yes, we should listen to his bullshit projections about 650,000 new jobs instead.
Vattel
Jan 2015
#357
Why informed? It's easier to be blissfully ignorant while spouting crap like Obama's legacy is dead.
great white snark
Feb 2015
#390
Aren't those that refuse to try to learn what's going on but content to trust Obama and the
rhett o rick
Feb 2015
#467
"they won't support any new trade deal b/4 the admin. can demonstrate that the result will
riversedge
Feb 2015
#419
How can we get informed about something that is delibertately being kept secret?
Man from Pickens
Feb 2015
#457
As stated at least 20 times already-every member of congress has access to any and all drafts.
great white snark
Feb 2015
#479