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JonLP24

(30,048 posts)
43. The RT op-ed actually includes a video of Obama saying exactly what the poster you replied to posted
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 10:49 AM
Feb 2015

but there is a lot being left out Obama mentions and context would be helpful in understanding the whole early elections.

Following the Presidential election of Petro Poroshenko, a wealthy businessman with support from European allies & Obama wanted to hold early elections for Parliament, before the 5 years was up. This new election prohibited Eastern regions of Ukraine form voting as well as Crimea. Crimean citizens couldn't vote in the election, turnout was a low 32% well the western parts had a 70% turnout.

This is actually contrary to what others such as Hillary Clinton : "We share the view of OSCE monitors that Sunday's election constituted a step backward for Ukrainian democracy"

Obama mentions Yankovych fleeing after the power was brokered but he signed the early elections into law, his own party later disowned them. Parliament voted to remove him from office after he extended an existing treaty with Russia from 2017 to sometime in the 2020s, 2022 if I'm not mistaken. Also 5 constitutional court judges were dismissed for "oath breaking" by Verkhovna Rada, approved by Parliament. Then Yankovych fleed but still it is an interesting choice of words by Obama given the context. One of Yankovych's more controversial moves was adding Russian to the official language (the adding or keeping off Russian as an official language is what qualifies as a politicized issue).

A lot of what he says about Russia is even more interesting. I could say more but basically paints it as Russia could be so much more if they agreed to play ball by our rules, he is right about their interests in Crimea though I wouldn't worry about the territory aspect since Crimea has changed hands so many times, but Crimea Parliament declared itself Independent & annexed with Russia so it basically fell into their laps. The international laws & this or that is basically what the dispute is about, Crimean Parliament cited Kosovo in its decision & they feel they had the right, within international law do what they did.

Interesting to say "allowed sanctions" on themselves. Indeed. Imagine if the roles were reversed & it was Russia, Crimea & Eastern parts of Ukraine that wanted to join EU & receive IMF extortion funds & it was Ukraine (that wanted to go the other way--wouldn't make sense given that natural resources is a major part of this). Ukraine would be allowing sanctions on themselves.

I personally don't have a dog in this fight except to say not to have a dog in this fight which is where I differ when it comes US/NATO/EU

On edit - My knowledge is very limited, especially in comparison to other long standing identity politics driven conflicts but I'd recommend in asking another_liberal more questions as he knows a hell lot more than I do. I'm not sure if he/she is on a side but from my POV the poster appears to be defending the truth more than anything, he/she may be off but there certainly is a Pro-Western Ukraine bloc that are off, in disputing that anyone in Ukraine is unhappy & the only ones upset or fighting is the Russian Army.

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Yanukovych caused the overthrow of his government Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #1
There is nothing in this piece which is not backed up by direct quotes . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #5
"Direct quotes"? Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #14
We "brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine" means "we overthrew the government." Really. leveymg Feb 2015 #77
Except he was talking about the agreement to hold early elections. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #85
"broker, verb": to act as a broker for Igel Feb 2015 #95
One thing I don't need is a lesson in grammar. You could use one in Poli sci - a coup is not leveymg Feb 2015 #97
What is a good, fair source of info duhneece Feb 2015 #21
Russia fits that description much better, honestly Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #23
The people who provide "news" (from both sides) Turbineguy Feb 2015 #101
Uh, what repressive brutality? MattSh Feb 2015 #60
At the point he was voted out? Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #86
Oh, so you subscribe to this theory? MattSh Feb 2015 #89
Thanks for posting the German TV video. nt snappyturtle Feb 2015 #108
RT? Android3.14 Feb 2015 #2
The story is backed up by direct quotes . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #3
Here is the link to CNN's Zakaria Interview segment with PBO on Russia... KoKo Feb 2015 #53
BTW: What PBO left out of this interview is revealing... KoKo Feb 2015 #56
So if Russia gets 'involved' with NATO members, nothing should be done? randome Feb 2015 #57
cookies of evil uhnope Feb 2015 #96
"It reveals a side to Obama that I wish I hadn't seen..." snappyturtle Feb 2015 #107
Obama's own words RiverLover Feb 2015 #4
His comments are on the video . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #7
We can ignore Obama's words if we wish. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #18
It's all they've got... SidDithers Feb 2015 #10
you know what Mark Twain said about who had the right to use the word "WE" hobbit709 Feb 2015 #6
Not off the top of my head, no . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #8
ROFL... SidDithers Feb 2015 #9
Nah ...... not really. polly7 Feb 2015 #11
+1,000 malaise Feb 2015 #16
Thanks for posting this newfie11 Feb 2015 #12
Obama's referring to the early elections agreed to before Yanukovych fled tammywammy Feb 2015 #13
Except our well-funded fascists took over the Rada and staged our coup instead. another_liberal Feb 2015 #19
The "transition" Obama is referring to in your OP is the deal for early elections. tammywammy Feb 2015 #22
Thanks Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #27
The RT op-ed actually includes a video of Obama saying exactly what the poster you replied to posted JonLP24 Feb 2015 #43
He fled because our neo-fascist armed mobs had seized the Rada and the Presidential Palace . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #33
But ........ he was supposed to stick around to be tortured and sodomized in the street polly7 Feb 2015 #34
Again, your timing is wrong. jeff47 Feb 2015 #50
Yanukovych's Party of Regions actually had the highest total popular vote in the early elections JonLP24 Feb 2015 #51
There are none so blind as those who will not see. DeSwiss Feb 2015 #44
Yanukovich still had full control of the military and security forces. They had kept the protesters pampango Feb 2015 #36
Actually, Yanukovych took three days to leisurely pack up his things and then flew away. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #103
Thank you for putting it in context davidpdx Feb 2015 #37
Yes, they don't need no stinking context when trying to cover putin's sorry **** and put the blame Cha Feb 2015 #110
Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov says Obama Confirmed US involved in Ukraine Coup KoKo Feb 2015 #71
The street battles that forced the deal were part of the overthrow. Where is the distinction? leveymg Feb 2015 #81
Thanks for posting this newfie11 Feb 2015 #15
Why not? The rest of the world knows it ..... 'bout time, I'd say. nt. polly7 Feb 2015 #17
k/r nationalize the fed Feb 2015 #20
Let just wait OverseaVisitor Feb 2015 #24
Wut, again? OilemFirchen Feb 2015 #38
And on neo-Nazis . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #62
Nice non-sequitur. OilemFirchen Feb 2015 #79
I love Mark Twain . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #82
Interesting read.... blackspade Feb 2015 #25
I call bullshit. If your story only works by leaving things out, it's a conspiracy theory. DetlefK Feb 2015 #26
Rule of thunb: OilemFirchen Feb 2015 #39
You're kidding, right? Adrahil Feb 2015 #28
The Putin boot-liking is strong in this thread...nt SidDithers Feb 2015 #30
And you know what they say about a certain river in Africa... MattSh Feb 2015 #59
What the US did was organize and instigate the overthrow of another sovereign government . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #31
Really. You pose the question in your OP then reveal your pre-determined answer. randome Feb 2015 #35
You're more right than wrong here, a_l. Shemp Howard Feb 2015 #42
No, they're really not more right than wrong. jeff47 Feb 2015 #48
It's simply an alternate opinion, jeff. randome Feb 2015 #49
You missed my point, Jeff. Shemp Howard Feb 2015 #52
Germany, France and Poland brokered the deal for early elections. n/t tammywammy Feb 2015 #54
Yes, isolationism worked so great after WWI. jeff47 Feb 2015 #64
You've got the timing backwards. jeff47 Feb 2015 #47
Yanukovych fled Ukraine long before there were any elections. nt snappyturtle Feb 2015 #109
See post 13 and 22. NCTraveler Feb 2015 #29
Yes he did overthrow Ukraine's democratically elected government Demeter Feb 2015 #32
No. Context is key. Dr Hobbitstein Feb 2015 #40
Oh..... DeSwiss Feb 2015 #41
+1 Karmadillo Feb 2015 #46
Great quote! another_liberal Feb 2015 #84
Fucking cookies. Damn Oreos always overthrow a government. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2015 #45
Like this one did: johnp3907 Feb 2015 #78
didn't happen that way. article should quote from the signed treaties/agreements. Sunlei Feb 2015 #55
Putin did not invade... MattSh Feb 2015 #65
Nah, the rebels just managed to find tons of Russian military equipment jeff47 Feb 2015 #67
Invasion MattSh Feb 2015 #73
And if it was only equipment, you'd have a point. jeff47 Feb 2015 #74
Geez. You've never heard of the Soviet Union? MattSh Feb 2015 #90
Well done, MattSh . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #91
Feel free to use any part of it or all of it... MattSh Feb 2015 #94
Yeah OverseaVisitor Feb 2015 #87
Putin invaded a country next to Russia. That was Ukraine. Both russia & ukraine 'leadership' were c Sunlei Feb 2015 #92
Isn't there a DU "comedy" forum or group for OPs like these? uhnope Feb 2015 #58
No, but there's one for yours, I think. nt. polly7 Feb 2015 #68
overpaid. uhnope Feb 2015 #69
Yes, I bet you are. Try a bit harder. nt. polly7 Feb 2015 #76
There's the Dumbgeon.... msanthrope Feb 2015 #70
What's the motive? treestar Feb 2015 #61
I doubt President Obama originated the policy . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #63
Hey now! Don't try to bring logic into this. jeff47 Feb 2015 #66
K&R woo me with science Feb 2015 #72
It can hardly be denied. I mean when you have neocons ON TAPE plotting the coup, even naming sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #75
State Dept Psaki grilled over leaked tapes--"This is What You Cook for Ukraine?" KoKo Feb 2015 #80
Thanks, I guess they don't want to talk about that, despite the wide coverage it received at the sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #93
It seems they are here in every thread telling us all to hate Russia Ramses Feb 2015 #98
Same as Iraq. I remember them well. Even down to the old Saddam lover garbage from the last war they sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #99
Kick. woo me with science Feb 2015 #83
kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #88
kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #100
Given that video shows Yanukovych voluntarily left under his own power, I'd say no. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #102
Because he walked to the car . . . another_liberal Feb 2015 #104
He took his sweet ass time packing. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #105
kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #106
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