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ND-Dem

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87. Please back up your contention that he "cast minimum wage as bad for business". I don't

Wed Feb 4, 2015, 10:06 AM

Feb 2015

see him doing that at your link; I see him criticizing Amazon.

Which deserves all the criticism it could get, and more.

Second, I was talking to a few friends about Amazon and I realized that my opinion of them has shifted in the past ten years. When they started up, my attitude was very much live and let live. They had their business ideas and I had mine. I figured there was room enough for both of us. But, as I’ve watched them grow, seen their business choices and their effect on my field, I’ve come to the conclusion that they are not a positive influence on the business of words & stories. During that same conversation with my friends, I also realized that there is a long list of things that they’ve done and attitudes that they have that I think are pretty lousy, either because I think that they are not ethical or just not … nice. Once I considered the totality of my opinion about Amazon, I decided it was time to say something.

Bear in mind that I’ve made a considerable effort to look at Amazon from the standpoint of someone who loves books and reading. Though driven by ideas and opinions informed by my experience as a bookseller, what you’ll find below is not the ranting of a bookseller outraged at the competition. It is instead my complaints against Amazon as a reader and booklover.

Amazon has –

(A) Been a deceptive and pervasive influence on ecommerce.

(B) Consistently tried to eliminate other businesses to increase their hold on the book market.

(C) Engaged in pricing designed to cripple competition and manipulate its suppliers and customers

(D) Made avoiding sales tax a cardinal part of their business model.

(E) Chosen an ebook business model and format that’s bad for the consumer.

In addition, I just don’t believe that they play nicely or fairly, even by our admittedly lax standards of corporate citizenship. In many ways, Amazon is the very model of an unethical, ruthless corporation that cares about nothing other than growing and making a profit.

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Borderlands Books in SF announces closure, cites minimum wage increase [View all] benz380 Feb 2015 OP

What a HORRIBLE thing for these people to do to society...Take our money, profit off of us NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #1

the horrible thing, actually, is the government giving tax and other advantages to online ND-Dem Feb 2015 #2

I agree with that, but to blame wages? HORRIBLE message NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #3

Yes, it does, when you have tight profit margins and you're a very small independent. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #6

I think that's a fair statement. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #60

Right catrose Feb 2015 #62

Agenda jollyreaper2112 Feb 2015 #83

Exactly. And it doesn't sound like they were doing all that great in the first place: arcane1 Feb 2015 #8

wow. the big capitalist paid himself $28K, $13 an hour. Less than the new SF minimum wage. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #16

The minimum wage is being transitioned in. $15 won't be in effect until 2018 suffragette Feb 2015 #51

So what? You don't see to understand the root problem, and it's not because he has a failed ND-Dem Feb 2015 #64

Businesses that can't compete don't make money. I don't doubt he can't compete hughee99 Feb 2015 #5

I don't see that they are blaming the workers. kiva Feb 2015 #7

Of course they are, the main reasons they cant compete is NOT paying someone an extra $3 an hour NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #10

They were just barely profitable paying their workers $11.05 an hour, which was about $2 ND-Dem Feb 2015 #18

tell it to this guy - tell him he is full of shit, be my guest NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #20

I already answered that. And the owner was already paying more than $11 an hour to 6 workers. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #25

How did you answer that? So YOU are the one who cares about unfair competition NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #29

he was paying $11.05 an hour, more than the $11 demanded on your poster, and only $1.95 ND-Dem Feb 2015 #35

you're talking to a brick wall. apparently this guy should run his store as a non profit dionysus Feb 2015 #80

agreed. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #94

does he have a facebook page? snooper2 Feb 2015 #31

Is that all you have to add to this discussion? NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #34

For this discussion yes, everyone else already posted the relevant information snooper2 Feb 2015 #39

I ignored nothing, I have discussed all the points as to this issue, me thinks you just have NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #41

nope, just responding to posts and eating a bagel LOL snooper2 Feb 2015 #45

Did you pay a bagel-slicing tax on that thing? benz380 Feb 2015 #53

That is now the dumbest thing I have read this year so far LOL snooper2 Feb 2015 #55

It sounds like the owner is saying he can't keep his business open without paying hughee99 Feb 2015 #63

yeah, i'm sure fdr would have supported amazon's monopoly position, supported by no taxes and ND-Dem Feb 2015 #68

I support raising the minimum wage. kiva Feb 2015 #43

You dont blame a living wage, it is that simple. The many reasons he is going out of NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #44

I reread the article. kiva Feb 2015 #50

And it is $15 an hour by 2018, not tomorrow NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #52

In May the minimum goes up over $1 per hour, kiva Feb 2015 #54

The headline should say "Huge corporation puts another small business out into the street" NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #56

What we have here is a philosophical difference. kiva Feb 2015 #58

Yeah but the problem of wage exists because we have allowed capitalists and oligarchs NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #59

Of course there is a cost to paying for labor, kiva Feb 2015 #61

Starting in May, he would have to pay each worker $1.20 more per hour Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #85

In this case, there *is* a cost, and yes, the system is corrupt and backwards and unless you ND-Dem Feb 2015 #69

It doesn't hurt his competition at all though. Amazon doesn't have to pay $15 an hour and in fact ND-Dem Feb 2015 #65

The owner paid himself $28,000 last year - after their best year ever. hack89 Feb 2015 #14

You DONT claim the REASON is the wages when that is NOT the reason, it may be the final NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #30

There is the fact that he would still be in business if the minimum wage remained the same. hack89 Feb 2015 #37

I think you could make some exceptions for maybe $13 vs $15 in certain situations NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #40

and amazon doesn't have to employ *anyone* in san francisco, but can still take the biggest ND-Dem Feb 2015 #67

Yeah, he's making the big bucks at a storefront sci-fi bookstore and probably robbing the till too. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #89

That person has a "blame the management" script that they won't deviate from, which in this ND-Dem Feb 2015 #66

i wouldn't get too fired up using this book store as an example. mom and pop dionysus Feb 2015 #78

"struggling to compete with online book sales and a national shift to electronic readers" arcane1 Feb 2015 #4

Exactly, and not only do these employees lose their job but rightwing TERRORISTS NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #12

He is really blaming it on an inability to increase sales enough to cover increased costs. hack89 Feb 2015 #19

Agreed. This certainly doesn't set an example like the article seems to imply. arcane1 Feb 2015 #21

I think it was a given that an increased minimum wage would shut down some businesses hack89 Feb 2015 #27

Yep, and that the lost jobs weren't really all that great anyway n/t arcane1 Feb 2015 #28

I'm sure that's what the newly-fired are saying right this moment. nt Dreamer Tatum Feb 2015 #32

Yeah, probably not :( arcane1 Feb 2015 #48

I'd love to work in a bookstore, personally. But slave work at Amazon is now almost the only ND-Dem Feb 2015 #38

Same here! One with used books and a cat. arcane1 Feb 2015 #49

yes. i love bookstores with pets and comfy chairs. almost a vanishing culture. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #70

it's sad that in todays world, with everything available onlone, small book and dionysus Feb 2015 #81

Green Apple Books on Clement St. Has opened another store in The Sunset. displacedtexan Feb 2015 #88

Maybe you don't like sci-fi. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #100

if their profit margin was that slim, they would go out of business anyway. spanone Feb 2015 #9

Any increase in the minimum wage would drive some struggling stores out of business hack89 Feb 2015 #22

Bingo! nt ladjf Feb 2015 #33

Yes. Amazon doesn't have to hire *any* workers in SF, or pay taxes to the city. Yet it can ND-Dem Feb 2015 #71

No business that depends for existence on paying less than a living wage to its workers RiverLover Feb 2015 #11

THANK YOU NoJusticeNoPeace Feb 2015 #13

This. So much this. Iggo Feb 2015 #17

Except of course when you give special tax breaks to giant businesses so they can drive smaller ND-Dem Feb 2015 #24

This reminds me of the small DVD rental store in downtown Asheville closing RiverLover Feb 2015 #15

Rents on Valencia Street have gone through the roof. KamaAina Feb 2015 #23

Maybe he could have stayed in business if slavery was legal? hunter Feb 2015 #26

He's already paying above minimum and barely pays himself more than his workers. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #47

All they have to do is copy and paste earlier announcements from Blockbuster Video. lpbk2713 Feb 2015 #36

SURRENDER TO THE BORG ND-Dem Feb 2015 #72

This is an unfair and misleading headline... TreasonousBastard Feb 2015 #42

YEP. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #73

The only people who make money off books are those who move volume. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2015 #46

Everybody else does it for the love, and enough to live on. But that option is fast-disappearing. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #74

This is a crying shame. Borderlands is the best sci-fi bookstore in the whole country. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #57

Not So Fast daredtowork Feb 2015 #75

Please back up your contention that he "cast minimum wage as bad for business". I don't ND-Dem Feb 2015 #87

and to po your bubble, the last line of that article, from the owner himself says... dionysus Feb 2015 #76

Op fail? i posted the first 3 paragraphs. benz380 Feb 2015 #91

Those employees should have the chance to form a co-op to keep the store going by themselves. Ken Burch Feb 2015 #77

If they're making just above minimum wage how could the 6 employees dionysus Feb 2015 #82

Borderlands is right down the street from me- I've always been glad that they're there. NBachers Feb 2015 #79

Since he's keeping the coffee shop, he could sell a smaller quantity of books there. benz380 Feb 2015 #84

he already specializes in sci-fi. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #86

Pay your workers a living wage or give up. 6000eliot Feb 2015 #90

Not that simple when monopoloists like amazon can shift labor cost to low-wage states or cities ND-Dem Feb 2015 #93

It doesn't matter what others are doing. 6000eliot Feb 2015 #96

LOL. Amazon doesn't have to pay ANY labor in San Francisco, or taxes either. And they ND-Dem Feb 2015 #99

And this excuses other businesses from paying a living wage how exactly? 6000eliot Feb 2015 #101

The biggest competitor doesn't have to pay a living wage though, or taxes, and you're fine with ND-Dem Feb 2015 #103

I don't care about Bezos. 6000eliot Feb 2015 #104

Bezos DOESN'T pay his workers a living wage; not only that, he works them until they drop from ND-Dem Feb 2015 #105

I'm still not sure how this excuses the bookstore in the OP from paying their workers 6000eliot Feb 2015 #106

The owner doesn't pay himself a living wage either. The reason is Amazon. Sorry you're having ND-Dem Feb 2015 #107

It doesn't matter what Amazon does or what he pays himself. 6000eliot Feb 2015 #109

He pays his employees. He pays them $11 an hour and pays himself $13. I guess he doesn't ND-Dem Feb 2015 #114

Notice the store owners aren't calling for a national Guaranteed Annual Income (which would KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #92

If you read what the owner actually *said,* he didn't blame the workers. Do all you folks ND-Dem Feb 2015 #95

Sorry, I was keying off this sentence in the OP: KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #98

"In 18 years of business, Borderlands has faced a number of challenges. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #102

Who buys paper books anymore? They make these e-readers where you can have all your books in the dilby Feb 2015 #97

People like Bezos are taking us back to the 19th century. As for your ereaders: ND-Dem Feb 2015 #108

If it was just for books, sure Blue_Adept Feb 2015 #112

My kindle fire has replaced books, my laptop and my tv. dilby Feb 2015 #113

it is only one particular business quaker bill Feb 2015 #110

Something seems off krawhitham Feb 2015 #111

"one would assume a bookstore owner would get an even better price." why would anyone think ND-Dem Feb 2015 #115