General Discussion

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

47. Try reading.

Wed Feb 4, 2015, 11:06 AM

Feb 2015

Specifically, this part:

Because the current anti-vaxxers are lost. They will never be convinced that they are wrong. Instead, mocking, shunning and otherwise "flaming" them will help reduce the number that join their ranks.

I'm not going to try to convince an anti-vaxxer they are wrong. Because that is not possible.

Anti-vaxxer believe they are brave rebels standing up to evil big medicine and evil big government. They believe arguments that are lies designed to defraud them. When the lies are exposed to the point where they are not sustainable, the fraud moves to a different set of lies. Which the anti-vaxxers happily accept as truth, ignoring the last few times their "truth" was destroyed.

You aren't going to turn a devout Catholic into a Jew with a reasoned debate. And you aren't going to turn an anti-vaxxer back to reality with a reasoned debate.

Since we can not get anti-vaxxers to rejoin reality, we're left with containing and reducing their influence. "Being nice" requires pretending that there is a debate to be had. Which means marginal people think there is a debate, and may themselves fall to the anti-vaxxer side. So "being nice" actually makes the situation worse. It produces more anti-vaxxers.

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Highlight:

Vaxxer/Anti-Vaxxer is the Wrong Conversation [View all] daredtowork Feb 2015 OP

Excellent post. leftofcool Feb 2015 #1

What caused this issue in the first place is a discredited and retracted study NuclearDem Feb 2015 #2

That's pretty much it. HappyMe Feb 2015 #5

What you say about the discredit study is true. Maedhros Feb 2015 #23

Nice effort to label the 'other' side as 'Vaxxers'. randome Feb 2015 #3

This is what I would expect to hear if Luke Russert had Sanjay Gupta's job. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #4

No, there aren't two equal sides to this debate... SidDithers Feb 2015 #6

There is no debate. Vaccinate or isolate. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #7

you are right, we should give anti-vaxxers hugs...and while they are not looking snooper2 Feb 2015 #8

"Take a breath and look at some of the issues"? Orsino Feb 2015 #9

Recommended. I think your post hits the right tone. nt DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #10

Oh bullshit. This is a self inflicted wound and not a failure of public health services. Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #11

Wrong. Daemonaquila Feb 2015 #12

I think everyone is missing my second paragraph daredtowork Feb 2015 #15

Sorry they need to be shamed into a corner until their delusions are mocked to destruction on point Feb 2015 #17

If the laugher is outnumbered daredtowork Feb 2015 #19

Your approach of quiet rational discussion is fine for those who got bad info that needs correction on point Feb 2015 #27

This problem is not in the vaxxing argument though daredtowork Feb 2015 #46

One more way to divide and conquer the general population 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #13

Because one side in this "debate" is facilitating a disease outbreak. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #20

Idiocy and a half-witted denial of science is the most effective way to divide. LanternWaste Feb 2015 #22

Really? I feel sad for the people who are dying. kcr Feb 2015 #31

1 percenters and Wall Street deserve more derision (and jail) for their socoipathic ways. Mika Feb 2015 #14

Word. That's been bothering me, too. daredtowork Feb 2015 #16

Just another diversionary tactic on your part. HappyMe Feb 2015 #28

You can't walk and chew gum at the same time? Mika Feb 2015 #32

+1. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #49

I find it offensive that as we still await and hope for an AIDS vaccine, people push the idea that Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #18

So, you're saying we have to wait 12 years for a newly educated populace? brooklynite Feb 2015 #21

Feel free to negotiate faster daredtowork Feb 2015 #24

Swap out "vaccinations" with "Middle East Policy", "climate change", "marriage equality"... brooklynite Feb 2015 #25

Progressives have written for years about daredtowork Feb 2015 #26

Thank you! jenny8675309 Feb 2015 #29

Welcome to DU, jenny8675309! Rhiannon12866 Feb 2015 #42

Welcome to DU! gopiscrap Feb 2015 #45

+1 ND-Dem Feb 2015 #50

This is a really good point: closeupready Feb 2015 #30

No, it really isn't. jeff47 Feb 2015 #34

Well, you know, I mean, you know everything, like many here on DU. closeupready Feb 2015 #36

You're making an argument. To make that argument, you need facts that support it. jeff47 Feb 2015 #37

Okay. I think I'm done here. closeupready Feb 2015 #38

Cherry-picking Mississippi daredtowork Feb 2015 #41

They will not come to terms with you. jeff47 Feb 2015 #48

I know 2 people who actually had polio daredtowork Feb 2015 #64

They're already angry. jeff47 Feb 2015 #66

lol? daredtowork Feb 2015 #71

Wow, that's a way to handle an argument. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #39

We tried that. It's why we are in the situation we now face. jeff47 Feb 2015 #33

No more Mr. Nice Guy? daredtowork Feb 2015 #43

Try reading. jeff47 Feb 2015 #47

You said two different things there daredtowork Feb 2015 #57

No, you're still thinking in terms of converting them back. jeff47 Feb 2015 #63

Yes they do matter daredtowork Feb 2015 #65

You keep mixing different pools of people in order to try and make a point. jeff47 Feb 2015 #67

With ridicule you are making the anti-vaxxers matter daredtowork Feb 2015 #70

Good post. When frustration strikes, people look for a scapegoat. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #75

Unfortunately, no. Studies have shown that anti-vaxxers will not listen to reason. stevenleser Feb 2015 #35

If it's a tool daredtowork Feb 2015 #44

Thank you for trying to bring some reason to this mess. While I strongly support vaccinating rhett o rick Feb 2015 #40

Actually, ridicule can be effective. randome Feb 2015 #51

How does ridicule ever help? Those that use ridicule are sure it helps but those that rhett o rick Feb 2015 #56

I said it doesn't help those who are ridiculed. randome Feb 2015 #69

Your post is laced with irony. Those that first thought the world was round were viewed as the rhett o rick Feb 2015 #74

I note you simply ignored my comment about the badly needed HIV vaccine. Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #52

I agree we need an HIV vaccine daredtowork Feb 2015 #58

Why do you say 'your' HIV vaccine? That is exactly why your opinion on this is without merit. Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #72

Because this is my OP daredtowork Feb 2015 #73

One should not have to suffer idiots rock Feb 2015 #53

"....that Settles These Matters." That is not what the Scientific Method claims to do. WinkyDink Feb 2015 #54

Good point. daredtowork Feb 2015 #60

RNC depends on keeping people ignorant. MSM mainstreamed ignorant teabaggers emulatorloo Feb 2015 #55

A lot of disinformation is deliberately disseminated daredtowork Feb 2015 #61

The problem is the cat's out of the bag. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #59

How do you suggest containing it? daredtowork Feb 2015 #62

I think it's about credulity and trust lumberjack_jeff Feb 2015 #68

Exactly! Android3.14 Feb 2015 #76