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In reply to the discussion: LBJ: "If you can convince the lowest white man that he’s better than the best colored man, he ..." [View all]Rilgin
(787 posts)So lets take your example and say the class battle is won and there is economic justice in the world. For me that means, that resources are fairly distributed over all of society and people universally are not oppressed by economic coercion. I would further say, that all public discrimination and system enforced discrimination in peoples daily life would be illegal. You would be treated, rewarded, or punished by society equal to any one of any race with that need or problem.
We know from all your posts that the end point set out above would not be enough and would leave your issues unsolved. You post this over and over. In this post you assert that at that point you will be "less well off than you". I would ask what do you exactly mean by that?
You mentioned past grievances. Is this what you mean by still less well off? Do you mean that even though treated the same you till carry grievances. And what exactly would constitute "solving past grievances". Do you mean economic reparations? How exactly does that work in society not treating people fairly and universally? I would love to hear some specifics of what you think the end game (in your words) of social justice fights. Is it just a psychological feeling. It gets solved when black people do not feel oppressed and white people do not feel privileged. Honestly, I would like you to spell it out.
I can do it for myself and my views. I see the problem as mostly capitalism and the 1% and the solution to a good and just society is attacking this part of our system. I think this is what most people who argue that racial prejudice stems from economic unfairness believe. Our goal would be a color blind society including not just economic fairness but fairness in all society interactions. At that point, white people would not be privileged. White people who believed they were privileged would clearly be objectively wrong by definition. Black people who believed white people were privileged would be clearly objectively wrong by definition. The belief among people who put class first is that if people recognize they are similar to each other and society is fair, it will address racial prejudices as well as a byproduct. People who have common interests tend to do away with racial biases in their dealings. Its harder to be biased against a co-worker, team mate, or neighbor who you have to rely on. I think its similar to crime. The best way to fight crime is not by fighting crime, its by improving economic situations. The correlation between economic problems and rises in the crime rate are very clear. However, crime is clearly a problem. However solutions that try to seperate crime from economy are on the wrong track. I believe that racial problems work the same and I believe history bears that out. History is full of politicians using race or religion if people are not poor to get them roused.
Thus the OP addresses one thing that is interesting and seems at the heart of this issue. It was an assertion that race is used by politicians and the 1% to divide us by putting into poor white people an attitude that they are better than a black person facing the exact same problems. The claim behind this is not that racial prejudices do not exist but that society is oppressing everyone the same except for a select few and the oppressors are served by the oppressed either blaming the other race or feeling privileged over the other race. The worse the economic situation of the society or the person addressed, the easier it is to distract him from the real source of his problems.
Thus we would say to a poor white person who thinks they are better individually or better off than a minority, you are wrong and being manipulated. However, are you not saying the same thing? "Fast forward to the end of this glorious classicism battle .... I will still be less well off than you."
The OP says white people who think/feel they are better than other races by reason of being white are Wrong. I would hope you agree. However, Similarly, your posts (including past ones) seem to be based on two assertions that to me exhibit some of the same blindness. First, you want to assert that white people of equal situations are more privileged than black people facing the exact same dilemma and second that "white people" are inherently responsible for problems facing black people (even the privileged ones) either because they are racist or because they are privileged.
Some of us just think that universal solutions are the only ones that work because there really is no solution to race other than by building a universal and fair society that ignores an individuals race rather than divides us into races then somehow solves our grievances. You believe the other but in no post have you actually defined what that means. I have seen some posts about "recognizing privilege" but then is silent as to what is next or how that is supposed to work. Getting to a fairer economic society might involve some of the same elements since it is clearly not what we have now but I can put forward specific solutions directed at what I see is the problem. I would like a wealth tax, high inheritance tax, socialized basics, and a negative income tax. All economic solutions to economic problems.
In this thread you mentioned "past grievances." So what exactly makes up for past grievances in your book? Is it economic reparations meaning that if you are black of the same class as a white person you get the reparations (an economic solution)? Is it just that you want more black members of the 1% so that we are equally oppressed. Just what does it mean? With respect to privilege you and other posters seem to mostly tie it to acknowledgment when asked steps. Again, I would love specifics on how this all works.
What exactly is the process that you want that would solve the racial status quo. Is it just in white people or is it universal. At what point and with what objective characteristics of society could one say that the status quo is no longer racist and white people are no longer privileged or it always the case that you will always be less well off regardless of whether that is objectively true.
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