General Discussion

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)

137. Moral equivalence?

Wed Feb 4, 2015, 11:00 PM

Feb 2015

If a Nobel Peace Prize winning, former constitutional law lecturer turned moderate Republican President orders the drone execution of Anwar al-Awlaki and follows up with the drone execution of al-Awlaki's 16 year old son Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, are the executions not criminal acts?

And no, people should protest barbarous acts and war crimes whenever they occur. The war crimes of Bush and Obama do not excuse the war crimes of ISIS militants.

But when the US denounces a group for actions that the US itself engages in one must allow for a little questioning of sincerity. War crimes are war crimes whether they are large scale, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, genocide against the First Peoples of this country,
or whether they are small scale, like the killing of the Jordanian pilot.

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Highlight:

Right on cue, Glenn Greenwald turns an ISIS atrocity into an anti-Obama screed... [View all] Blue_Tires Feb 2015 OP

Of course he did leftynyc Feb 2015 #1

No surprise there. zappaman Feb 2015 #2

Preemptive outrage, that's a new one. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #3

Here is a link to the article in question el_bryanto Feb 2015 #4

Thank you. The OP is wrong - this is no screed against Obama. It's a clinical analysis leveymg Feb 2015 #6

Indeed. n/t markpkessinger Feb 2015 #14

The swooners see anything critical of "USA! #1!!1!" as an "anti-Obama screed." PSPS Feb 2015 #26

Put a Republican in office and they'd be doing the opposite. alarimer Feb 2015 #50

Yes. Cult of personality. Was Bush's, now Obama's. You have to summarily dismiss them as irrational. PSPS Feb 2015 #59

I think anyone leftynyc Feb 2015 #192

Not all of them. Some are clearly right-wingers wearing sheep's clothing. Scuba Feb 2015 #195

whenever I think they cannot get more pathetic, they find a way Skittles Feb 2015 #92

+1 F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #40

"Very misleading OP." Big surprise there. Usually Greenwalds detractors are so fair. Vattel Feb 2015 #43

+1 grntuscarora Feb 2015 #62

Lying is what liars do. 99Forever Feb 2015 #63

critical thinking skills make a difference Skittles Feb 2015 #86

Thank you for posting the link n/t deutsey Feb 2015 #84

Thank you for the link. SamKnause Feb 2015 #111

I don't know what he said, but G_j Feb 2015 #5

Why wouldn't he? That's been his MO all along. eom MohRokTah Feb 2015 #7

Glenn Greenwald wanted to throw Bush and Cheney in jail. Octafish Feb 2015 #8

Sunstein is a legal scholar, Greenwald is a writer OKNancy Feb 2015 #13

Sunstein is a lawyer. MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #17

Glenn Greenwald vs. Cass Sunstein -- Battle Royal, in their own words! Octafish Feb 2015 #24

Sunstein shows great integrity MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #29

that's the truth G_j Feb 2015 #34

In La La Land, job titles only discredit you. Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #18

Sunstein is a legal hack and token "liberal" at Univ of Chicago Law. leveymg Feb 2015 #20

We need more like Sunstein working for the federal government. Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #27

Sunstein really seems too vacuous and low wattage to be truly despicable. leveymg Feb 2015 #32

that's an awfully low bar you've set there frylock Feb 2015 #38

Ditto to Greenwald fans. nt Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #41

4 hidden posts Long Drive Feb 2015 #45

Want to explain to the site admins why you can view a hidden transparency page? Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #46

Want to get a clue? Long Drive Feb 2015 #48

Not the transparency page. Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #49

You are mistaken. zappaman Feb 2015 #52

I can see clearly that you have 4 hidden posts Long Drive Feb 2015 #53

I hope to one day have enough DU knowledge as a zombie. nt Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #56

Ah Honey Long Drive Feb 2015 #60

LOL Hissyspit Feb 2015 #157

The hidden post tangent wasn't working? Long Drive Feb 2015 #69

It's magic I tells ya ...magic L0oniX Feb 2015 #207

LOL!!! Capt. Obvious Feb 2015 #216

just got the fifth Ichingcarpenter Feb 2015 #225

I'm sure he's already back in the saddle. QC Feb 2015 #226

can you kindly point me to an example of the bar that "Greenwald fans" have set.. frylock Feb 2015 #68

Holy Shit that made me laugh! Long Drive Feb 2015 #74

It also was Greenwald who called out Bush and Cheney on illegal NSA spying back in 2007. Octafish Feb 2015 #22

A year after others had already broken the story. Yeah, amazing journalist job that. stevenleser Feb 2015 #51

Except for that pesky fact that he was writing about in 2005 on his blog, "Unclaimed Territory" Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #128

Ah so the entire world thinks another journalist broke the story but it was Greenwald all along? stevenleser Feb 2015 #151

Greenwald has never claimed that he broke the story. Nor has anyone else. You are woefully inept at this. Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #161

You just did in your previous comment to me. Nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #162

Really. "Journalist" Leser. Quote me where I claim he broke the story. Use your best "journalistic" Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #163

Here's the link. Do we really have to play these silly games? stevenleser Feb 2015 #166

So extraordinarily dishonest. Nothing there about me or him claiming to break any sort of story. Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #172

Greenwald has no cred except among anti-us nationalists stevenleser Feb 2015 #174

No."Journalist" Leser. I plainly said that he was reporting on the NSA story 2 years Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #178

You just proved me right. The NY times broke the story in mid Dec 2015, nearly 2006 stevenleser Feb 2015 #180

Not once said he beat them to it. Quit lying. Merely said he was reporting on it. Where are your Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #186

Own up to what you wrote. Nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #181

For someone who wishes to be taken seriously as a journalist, you're highly subjective... MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #230

wtf does that matter? bigtree Feb 2015 #132

So let me get this straight, you demand he get credit for breaking an already broken story? stevenleser Feb 2015 #150

Send me the links where you were reporting on NSA abuses in 2005 "journalist" Leser. Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #167

I'm tired from already linking to something you said then denied. stevenleser Feb 2015 #169

Quote me. You can't. Quote me in your subject line. "Journist" Leser. There will be crickets. Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #173

See my #174. Own up to what you wrote. Nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #176

Nope. Not any where ever have I made the claim he broke the story. Pure fabrication "journalist" Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #179

Own up to what you wrote. Nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #182

Quote what I wrote in your subject line. "Journalist" Leser. Quote where I said he broke the story? Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #183

I've quoted you several times now. Own up to it or retract it. stevenleser Feb 2015 #184

Your credibility is a shit clogged toilet. Quote me in subject line where I said he broke the story. Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #187

1/30/06- Digby:"Glenn Greenwald has been the go-to guy in this [illegal NSA wiretaps/hearing Qs]" deurbano Feb 2015 #188

where did he ask for that kind of accolade? bigtree Feb 2015 #190

"I find it odd to see DUers hating on the guy now." Give them credit for being flexible. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #54

The War bits. The Bankster bits. Octafish Feb 2015 #124

Money wins elections so we're ok with oligarchy big money now. L0oniX Feb 2015 #206

Sorry Octafish, I think Greenwald is a tool. hunter Feb 2015 #78

Well that is certainly insightful analysis. Maedhros Feb 2015 #114

Reality often surprises me. hunter Feb 2015 #123

But he wrote in his book that he supported Bush frazzled Feb 2015 #235

Our current Sec of State believed Bush & the Invasion of Iraq. bvar22 Feb 2015 #242

I called him out on it, too (in person) frazzled Feb 2015 #243

What a BS OP. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #9

Do you believe the U.S. is better or worse than ISIS? Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #232

What a smug prick. Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #10

Anger issues? Long Drive Feb 2015 #47

maybe just homophobia nt grasswire Feb 2015 #75

Oh I dunno. Puglover Feb 2015 #91

As in NJ? It seems more Pretzeley to me. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Feb 2015 #97

Are they still snowed in up there in Jersey? QC Feb 2015 #98

This message was self-deleted by its author QC Feb 2015 #98

you poor thing Skittles Feb 2015 #88

I don't know davidpdx Feb 2015 #234

Bit of a one trick pony, isn't he...nt SidDithers Feb 2015 #11

You ought to read the article before you comment. elias49 Feb 2015 #23

An entire article journey begins with the first sentence… MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #229

No. elias49 Feb 2015 #12

Is your complaint that the US drone program shouldn't draw complaints? MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #15

--- G_j Feb 2015 #58

This message was self-deleted by its author G_j Feb 2015 #61

He's a terror apologist. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #16

this is apologizing for terror? bigtree Feb 2015 #36

Two lines followed by an entire screed of false moral equivalence? msanthrope Feb 2015 #102

false moral equivalence? that's one opinion bigtree Feb 2015 #127

An opinion everyone except anti-US nationalists agree with. stevenleser Feb 2015 #159

Right. NanceGreggs Feb 2015 #171

I don't think you or anyone else holds the morality card on when it's appropriate to speak out bigtree Feb 2015 #189

It has nothing to do with morality. It has to do with nationalistic thinking. As Orwell pointed out. stevenleser Feb 2015 #220

no. It's about your cheap, petty labeling bigtree Feb 2015 #222

"My own Government, I can not be Silent.” G_j Feb 2015 #219

on point, G_j bigtree Feb 2015 #223

the King speech few want to acknowledge, G_j Feb 2015 #224

Yes, we just make movies about men who kill children F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #152

"our troops" eh? I take it you are a Chris Kyle fan then? redgreenandblue Feb 2015 #191

Yes..when i likened msanthrope Feb 2015 #228

Some of his acolytes here can do the same thing. A thread about a president picking up a hitchhiker Number23 Feb 2015 #19

"blue links of madness" Bobbie Jo Feb 2015 #121

Oh, giftedgirl hit the jackpot when she came up with. What made it so perfect was that it is so Number23 Feb 2015 #122

If it's a screed against anything, it's against U.S. militarism in general . . . markpkessinger Feb 2015 #21

OP fail. nt elias49 Feb 2015 #25

OP on point! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #28

How so? Please try to explain. elias49 Feb 2015 #37

Nevermind is right..... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #39

Nothing says vacuuousness like cheerleading an unspecified/unlinked claim. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #104

BRAVO Long Drive Feb 2015 #136

Big time deutsey Feb 2015 #85

Did I fail to make my point? Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #221

Greenwald wants to spark a discussion about collateral killings from U.S. operated drones bigtree Feb 2015 #30

bugsplat -- ugh that's so revolting of them. nt grasswire Feb 2015 #79

Excellent post. F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #147

Just trying to point out his hypocrisy and anti-U.S. myopia... Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #233

what do you know about how he feels about the U.S. bigtree Feb 2015 #236

Cesca makes my point a bit more eloquently here: Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #240

I actually agree our politicians use these tragedies and atrocities for their own political purpose bigtree Feb 2015 #241

Was the article untrue? Or just unflattering? arcane1 Feb 2015 #31

It wasn't even about Obama. It dealt with blast effects on human tissue. Not flattering, leveymg Feb 2015 #33

Opportunistic but not untrue. AtomicKitten Feb 2015 #35

Expect the TigerBeat crowd to be suitably outraged in 3.....2.....1 Tarheel_Dem Feb 2015 #42

DURec for Greenwald, unrec for the OP... bvar22 Feb 2015 #44

Reading the recs Long Drive Feb 2015 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #139

... SidDithers Feb 2015 #158

So you agree with Greenwald that the U.S. is no better than ISIS? Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #231

Anti-US screed anyway. Greenwald fanboys are zeroing in on the Obama in your OP stevenleser Feb 2015 #55

I get the impression that you would like to eliminate all anti-USA "screed". Maybe Fox Noise is rhett o rick Feb 2015 #67

Nice try at changing the subject, but no. The answer to wrongdoing by others is not "US Bad" stevenleser Feb 2015 #71

The linked article reveals a side of the USofA that some wish to pretend rhett o rick Feb 2015 #103

The linked article is the latest attempt by Greenwald and fans to minimize ISIS and stevenleser Feb 2015 #156

a text book example of intellectual dishonesty? G_j Feb 2015 #168

Could it be CT?Greenwald and fans conspiring to minimize ISIS atrocities by revealing US atrocities. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #197

unfortunately, the two are directly linked. G_j Feb 2015 #76

care to dicuss the actual substance of the actual article? G_j Feb 2015 #64

Discuss with substance? Not a chance. nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #100

*Fuck you*, Glenn Greenwald. nt AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #65

I can see why you wouldn't link to it since it isn't anything like your OP riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #66

+1 Marr Feb 2015 #73

The truth is hell. And they can't handle it. This fangirl is laughing her ass off Autumn Feb 2015 #77

Right on cue. Puglover Feb 2015 #87

It's all so predictable. Autumn Feb 2015 #93

It's honestly not funny. Puglover Feb 2015 #94

I can only see it as performance art. It has to be. Autumn Feb 2015 #95

I sit in my comfortable living room Puglover Feb 2015 #96

It's like somebody put up the bat signal. QC Feb 2015 #101

Yeah, just like that. Jeff Rosenzweig Feb 2015 #112

Aw it looks like a few of my besties Puglover Feb 2015 #133

LOL! yowzayowzayowza Feb 2015 #145

Most of the people who post there ... NanceGreggs Feb 2015 #149

This thread shows the real divide nationalize the fed Feb 2015 #70

Question Authority grasswire Feb 2015 #80

All is for the best, believe in what we're told. Maedhros Feb 2015 #116

It's truly gross that the only thing you saw in that article was Obama's name. Marr Feb 2015 #72

Go figure, the more he comes out with his crap the clearer the picture becomes. Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #81

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #82

If you "understand" Greenwald then I dont know if you are following the truth. Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #110

What crap, historical fact? whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #89

He does not report historical facts, impossible to get the facts from him Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #109

So you reviewed the media entries in the article whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #115

After someone tells different tales on the same subject I mark them off on Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #117

Brilliant! whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #118

Well, alrighty then! Oilwellian Feb 2015 #90

I do not believe anything he has to say, zero confidence in his reporting. Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #107

What a piece of shit whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #83

^^^THIS^^^ add: very stinky too. L0oniX Feb 2015 #129

I was going to ask if you were ashamed of your misinformation/propaganda but I see you are by TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #105

Unbelievably dishonest - you don't link to the article you're criticizing, you just expect scarletwoman Feb 2015 #106

The article is a painful reminder of the thousands of innocents killed by Obama's drones Bonobo Feb 2015 #108

The Truth is Ugly. SamKnause Feb 2015 #113

Well, this is a rather disingenuous OP, empty of validity... MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #119

no can do guillaumeb Feb 2015 #209

US black ops - 130+ countries last year Man from Pickens Feb 2015 #120

I admit it - I see a trend. grasswire Feb 2015 #125

I sense a couple of other possible trends. merrily Feb 2015 #130

Post BS and run? SaveOurDemocracy Feb 2015 #126

Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #131

enjoy every crumb. KG Feb 2015 #134

Of course, Glenn, how's that PUTEEN doing (yes I know it's SNOWjob in Russia)?!1 n/t UTUSN Feb 2015 #135

Moral equivalence? guillaumeb Feb 2015 #137

well said G_j Feb 2015 #142

"our" govt?? moondust Feb 2015 #138

There are 6 million Americans who live abroad. progressoid Feb 2015 #199

Which government is Greenwald referring to? Major Hogwash Feb 2015 #140

This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Feb 2015 #160

nice of you to chide him for leaving the U.S. (he is still an American) bigtree Feb 2015 #237

Does he pay taxes? Major Hogwash Feb 2015 #238

irrelevant bigtree Feb 2015 #239

Where was Greenwald when Bush was in Office nakocal Feb 2015 #141

He wrote three books about the George W. Bush Administration G_j Feb 2015 #143

Yeah, but except for those three books QC Feb 2015 #144

Was that before or after Greenwald endorsed the Iraq War? Major Hogwash Feb 2015 #146

No they don't. They just see through misleading bull crap when it's posted. Hissyspit Feb 2015 #154

Let see how good your memory is if Hillary is the nominee whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #164

All will be forgiven then, of course. QC Feb 2015 #196

easy decisions guillaumeb Feb 2015 #208

When did he "endorse" the Iraq War. cpwm17 Feb 2015 #201

Wow. You may want to delete this post. Hissyspit Feb 2015 #153

No, they shouldn't delete. It took a long time for Greenwald to realize Bush was stevenleser Feb 2015 #185

Hunh? Hissyspit Feb 2015 #227

... xocet Feb 2015 #148

"Anybody finally want to start admitting I've been right about him and his "brand" of agenda-based" Hissyspit Feb 2015 #155

He's got a point Warpy Feb 2015 #165

Almost. He might have one if the Obama administration had dropped white phosphorous stevenleser Feb 2015 #170

I didn't see it as anti Obama, specifically Warpy Feb 2015 #175

Nor did I, as I noted in my #55 above. stevenleser Feb 2015 #177

K&R! stonecutter357 Feb 2015 #193

"Did something once"? In case you haven't noticed, we're still doing it. Scuba Feb 2015 #194

Huh? progressoid Feb 2015 #198

To be fair, it did mention Obamas name in the article. Autumn Feb 2015 #200

That's because Ellen has Bo. progressoid Feb 2015 #203

Obviously the secret service detail has failed again. Autumn Feb 2015 #204

He may not be on cue, but yes, he is indeed right. Orsino Feb 2015 #202

No, he's not right. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #212

His tweet could be called a broad brush... Orsino Feb 2015 #213

Or it can be called a tu quoque. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #214

Greenwald impugned motives, not factual errors. Orsino Feb 2015 #218

Why is no one allowed to feel indignation over ISIS Arkana Feb 2015 #205

That is an excellent question!! Peacetrain Feb 2015 #210

The blatant racism is dripping through that tweet Capt. Obvious Feb 2015 #211

Then point it out. nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #215

This OP is a huge fail. Mr. Greenwald wrote an article pointing out the hypocracy rhett o rick Feb 2015 #217

He didn't minimize, he equivocated Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #244

So.....do you agree with the OP or not? I am not sure of your point. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #245

Right, GG.. we shouldn't feel anything about ISIS because of what you think. Got It, ********. Cha Feb 2015 #246

K&R Cha Feb 2015 #247

K Cha Feb 2015 #248