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libdem4life

(13,877 posts)

133. Who is WE? And no, it's really not academic at all. ISIS is at war, whether we acknowledge it or

Thu Feb 5, 2015, 01:35 PM

Feb 2015

not. They don't happen to have fighter jets and bombs and tanks and unlimited war materiel and UN cover ... Western war tools, et al, which is what makes it "barbarian" to us.

Point is, that the actual experience of seeing one incinerated young girl...Americans did not want their government to do that in our name. And we told our government WE didn't want that. And please don't show it to us again...and they haven't. And it continues...drones now.

Personally, I don't think we belong anywhere near there, but that's a fait acompli...we are heavily invested and not just for Israel. For our own interests. So, they butcher a few, we butcher (or allow to be butchered) a lot. How is it OK for us and not OK for them...perspective or not?

Fallacious argument? It's old fashioned pot/kettle routine.

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Burning people to death. Didn't Christians do that a few years back? [View all] MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 OP

Suspected witches were never burned in this country, cwydro Feb 2015 #1

But they *were* slowly pressed to death with great weights, IIRC MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #3

More than 200 years ago... n/t Adrahil Feb 2015 #46

just one was pressed to death Marrah_G Feb 2015 #107

And nineteen were hanged jmowreader Feb 2015 #225

Yes- it was a scary time Marrah_G Feb 2015 #234

I've only been once jmowreader Feb 2015 #235

It's insane in October and if you actually live there it's hell Marrah_G Feb 2015 #238

Queen Mary Quackers Feb 2015 #18

Yes. Also known as "Bloody Mary" PassingFair Feb 2015 #39

No, that was reserved for folks 'living while black'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #156

In Dresden and Tokyo among others. Downwinder Feb 2015 #2

+1 n/t n2doc Feb 2015 #86

+2 truebluegreen Feb 2015 #226

Those Spanish knew a thing or two in the 1470's MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #4

Yes in the 13th century hugo_from_TN Feb 2015 #5

the guy burned to death in a cage was a Muslim JI7 Feb 2015 #6

What is your point? Throd Feb 2015 #8

Well essentially the civil authorities were turning a blind eye to exboyfil Feb 2015 #16

There were very few Muslim extremists until... MattSh Feb 2015 #34

Yes because of course, Soviet occupation of Afghanistan was welcomed by the people there and Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #54

Wrong pipoman Feb 2015 #77

It actually goes back 100 years nichomachus Feb 2015 #118

Don't forget the fuel we tossed on the fire in 1953.... truebluegreen Feb 2015 #227

Your accuracy is appreciated but off MasochisticHistorian Feb 2015 #243

Bingo - thanks 840high Feb 2015 #130

How about White Phospherous? Is that from the 13th Century? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #215

I remember that. Wasn't it 2011? Throd Feb 2015 #7

Burning people is un-Islamic. MADem Feb 2015 #9

OMG. This is gold. hugo_from_TN Feb 2015 #10

it's an emotional reaction to what they did to the Soldier JI7 Feb 2015 #11

There is an interesting quotation from the Quran that says something on the lines of MADem Feb 2015 #90

Which is why the terrorists of 9/11 shouldn't be considered Muslim as they did both... cascadiance Feb 2015 #102

They aren't. People forget the enormous outpouring of sympathy and goodwill from the Muslim world MADem Feb 2015 #168

Islam has no Pope. former9thward Feb 2015 #12

The Pope doesn't get to speak for Christianity either... Violet_Crumble Feb 2015 #24

"The Pope doesn't get to speak for Protestantism either..." Fixed. :-). WinkyDink Feb 2015 #65

He does not speak for Protestants nor for the millions of members of Orthodox Churches which Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #81

Anglicans come under the rubric of "Protestants," and I figured by mentioning the Eastern Chruch I'd WinkyDink Feb 2015 #205

True and I come from a Protestant background. former9thward Feb 2015 #78

Uh, yes, they do. nt MADem Feb 2015 #93

Uhh, no they don't. former9thward Feb 2015 #98

No one disregards the Grand Imam of al-Ahzar if they are Sunni. MADem Feb 2015 #172

Your second link gives a multitude of people not one. former9thward Feb 2015 #174

I provided a link upthread with his comments. He's pissed. Big time. MADem Feb 2015 #175

People forget what a Pope is. MasochisticHistorian Feb 2015 #244

"What am I, chopped liver?!"---Prince Shah Karim Al Hussaini Aga Khan (IV). WinkyDink Feb 2015 #64

He owns a good chunk of the shi'a territory--there are at least fifteen million MADem Feb 2015 #176

Really? They don't have a pope? Ya don't say!!! MADem Feb 2015 #92

A book is not a person. former9thward Feb 2015 #100

I know the difference. The book is the same no matter where you go in Islam. MADem Feb 2015 #173

Yes they do MasochisticHistorian Feb 2015 #242

Not necessarily. Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #13

Al Tabari is not the Quran. His exegesis is an opinion, and even in your example, MADem Feb 2015 #89

"Satanic, terrorist" group lobodons Feb 2015 #23

When Muslims pull out the "shatan" references, they aren't playing. They're pissed. MADem Feb 2015 #94

Apparently a Roman Emperor also lit his dinner party with torches Cleita Feb 2015 #14

If by a "few" years you mean 500 or so.. whathehell Feb 2015 #15

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Feb 2015 #17

Quite true! Technological progress and sociological progress often do not go hand in hand. RKP5637 Feb 2015 #29

Maybe, but we're talking about actions, whathehell Feb 2015 #40

About a 100 years ago exboyfil Feb 2015 #19

Individuals did that.. whathehell Feb 2015 #37

Or, literally a few. Or, more honestly, currently ongoing. enki23 Feb 2015 #72

Not as a matter of policy in the Western developed world. whathehell Feb 2015 #145

That's a hell of a qualification. It's also not done as a harvest ritual by albino Irish girls. enki23 Feb 2015 #186

No, and when you compare whathehell Feb 2015 #196

Yes, because the way to save face under well-deserved mockery is to take it ultra-literally. enki23 Feb 2015 #198

BWAHAHAHAHAHA..Project much? whathehell Feb 2015 #200

Christians burning people is not a "credible argument" that Christians burn people, "dear?" enki23 Feb 2015 #202

Insults typically underscore an inability to argue effectively, so let me explain this to you in whathehell Feb 2015 #211

Are you... responding to me with arguments against other people? Or are you trying to gaslight me? enki23 Feb 2015 #229

I'm trying to tell you whathehell Feb 2015 #237

How about Depleted Uranium and White Phospherus? What religion is the use of these, far more sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #216

No religion.at all, unless one considers imperialism a "religion". whathehell Feb 2015 #219

How do you determine that? Many of the supporters and defenders of the burning of Iraqi sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #220

"Self-defined Christians" can be as non representative of Christianity as Al Queda is of Islam whathehell Feb 2015 #222

Many Christians still fantasize about non-believers burning in Hell cpwm17 Feb 2015 #20

Religion, IMO, is one of the most dangerous clubs on earth. n/t RKP5637 Feb 2015 #30

Yeah, along with Stalin's Atheist club that killed 20 Million. whathehell Feb 2015 #148

Exactly! Same thing IMO. n/t RKP5637 Feb 2015 #179

Maybe, but "fantasizing" is a far better whathehell Feb 2015 #43

Much better. It's also much better to fantasize about a brutal rape than to undertake one. enki23 Feb 2015 #75

People fantasize about all.sorts of things, dear whathehell Feb 2015 #84

I grew up around Christians cpwm17 Feb 2015 #91

Unless you're defining "Christians" very narrowly, cpwm17, your experience is whathehell Feb 2015 #141

No, I haven't condemned all Christians cpwm17 Feb 2015 #164

That's nice, but still off point whathehell Feb 2015 #165

Once one thinks it is just to infinitely torture one for eternity for having a different opinion cpwm17 Feb 2015 #171

One doesn't have to believe something is "just" to believe it's true. whathehell Feb 2015 #204

I made sure to not make a blanket condemnation of all Christians cpwm17 Feb 2015 #213

Yes, but you seem to be retracting it.. whathehell Feb 2015 #214

Yup. "Many" is a weasel word that's a placeholder for something that is not currently quantified. enki23 Feb 2015 #185

That's true cpwm17 Feb 2015 #88

Christians are doing it now, with hellfire missiles and white phosphorous upon occassion Dragonfli Feb 2015 #21

Um, I think you mean "governments", whathehell Feb 2015 #44

Governments use people to do their killing, Those drones are not self aware just yet. Dragonfli Feb 2015 #87

Right, whathehell Feb 2015 #142

How so? "Each individual killer makes a choice to kill or not when asked to" Dragonfli Feb 2015 #147

You said governments use people. The fact is, governments are comprised of people, whathehell Feb 2015 #152

So are Corporations, but it should not excuse the people within it that are the actual perpetrators Dragonfli Feb 2015 #155

So whose excusing anyone? whathehell Feb 2015 #162

It is wrong now and it was wrong then. What's your point? n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #22

Did you actually read my OP? MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #41

How many people is ISIS then entitled to incinerate? Dreamer Tatum Feb 2015 #25

+1 Waiting For Everyman Feb 2015 #103

Which part of my 4th paragraph is unclear? nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #109

The first three make your position clear. The 4th just gives you room to weasel. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2015 #117

Few years back?...more like centuries ago davidn3600 Feb 2015 #26

"Sardonic." WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2015 #236

i have a picture book about the inquisition. the rack in the movies is NOTHING. pansypoo53219 Feb 2015 #27

The Salem "Witches" Were Hanged, not Burned Teutonic Samuel Feb 2015 #28

Tu quoque is a shitty and fallacious argument and using it to defend burning people alive is... JVS Feb 2015 #31

+1 Waiting For Everyman Feb 2015 #101

In light of my 4th paragraph... MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #114

It is only bad when Muslims do it but A-OK if Christians Do it ChosenUnWisely Feb 2015 #32

If you consider hundreds of years leftynyc Feb 2015 #33

Nah, some people don't give 2 flips about protecting Islam, they just want to stir FSogol Feb 2015 #35

True enough leftynyc Feb 2015 #38

Easy to unclog your board. Use ignore or trash thread but it's better to complain about posters Autumn Feb 2015 #52

And let them think leftynyc Feb 2015 #66

There you go, so you admit your complaint is just clogging up the board. Autumn Feb 2015 #68

If that emoticon leftynyc Feb 2015 #69

No I just like the emoticons. If Skinner didn't want us to clog up the bord with them we wouldn't Autumn Feb 2015 #71

First off, the KKK lynched thousands of Americans much more recently MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #42

Spare me the utter bullshit leftynyc Feb 2015 #47

Hah! The results! Egnever Feb 2015 #197

If you were one of the leftynyc Feb 2015 #199

Yes, they were criminals.. whathehell Feb 2015 #53

That's exactly my point. nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #62

Tthe only problem is that in whathehell Feb 2015 #85

actually the King James Bible is considerably different from say the Living Bible dsc Feb 2015 #74

Exactly -- Another stale excercise in false equivalence whathehell Feb 2015 #45

Elizabeth Warren: Destroying ISIS should be our Number 1 priority Nye Bevan Feb 2015 #36

Crickets... DonViejo Feb 2015 #178

Google "lynchings burning" and check out the images deutsey Feb 2015 #48

What is your point----That evil lies in the hearts of men of every persuasion? Yeah, and so? It WinkyDink Feb 2015 #58

That you don't have to go back to hundreds of years for examples of deutsey Feb 2015 #82

Moral relevancy makes me feel all warm and mushy inside. nt. NCTraveler Feb 2015 #49

And the Romans fed Christians to the lions. And Aztecs practiced human sacrifice. randome Feb 2015 #50

Justifying ISIS? Snow Leopard Feb 2015 #51

Which part of my 4th paragraph is unclear? nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #108

You indirectly criticized America, therefore you are defending ISIS. Maedhros Feb 2015 #131

But killing is part of religion RedCappedBandit Feb 2015 #55

Apparently you are not in a close relationship with the New Testament. WinkyDink Feb 2015 #60

Please. All of these books have ridiculous violent crap in them. nt RedCappedBandit Feb 2015 #67

Neither do a lot of the people that claim to. hobbit709 Feb 2015 #83

One wonders, Manny, chervilant Feb 2015 #56

Centuries. A millennium. The passage of time for a civilization matters. WinkyDink Feb 2015 #57

Nope, witch burnings happened many years ago. Words have meanings. 'Few' has an actual definition Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #59

And even "many" is insufficient, when he refers to 1642. WinkyDink Feb 2015 #61

Look up necklacing in Africa. haele Feb 2015 #112

Yeah, and it had everything to do with politics, whathehell Feb 2015 #143

And politics and religion don't go hand in hand in these situations? haele Feb 2015 #158

Not in South Africa, which was most noted for it, no. whathehell Feb 2015 #161

More like a year and a half ago. jeff47 Feb 2015 #128

a few, that is eight padfun Feb 2015 #203

religion sucks KG Feb 2015 #63

we all good cause we murder in a more humane manner dembotoz Feb 2015 #70

Depends on your definition of "a few." MineralMan Feb 2015 #73

"Suspected Witches Burned Alive By Christians in Kenya." A year and a half ago. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #126

Shocking details in the link marle35 Feb 2015 #181

Yeah, and if you read the link you'll see they did it to steal land, not whathehell Feb 2015 #224

Sorry MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #207

A witch burning is my congregations' plan for this weekend LanternWaste Feb 2015 #76

ISIS good - Christians bad get the red out Feb 2015 #79

Which part of my 4th paragraph is unclear? nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #110

Just a screed get the red out Feb 2015 #151

Uh... no. MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #154

Lets be inactive get the red out Feb 2015 #157

"...the extreme left...." truebluegreen Feb 2015 #228

Sorry you're lost get the red out Feb 2015 #230

I'm afraid you are the one who is lost. truebluegreen Feb 2015 #231

Not socialist enough get the red out Feb 2015 #232

"I have no clue...." you say. truebluegreen Feb 2015 #233

Sorry get the red out Feb 2015 #240

May I briefly bring to mind the photo that is credited for ending the Viet Nam War? The naked libdem4life Feb 2015 #80

No one has claimed religion is the sole purveyor of human cruelty. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #97

With all due respect, dropping incinerating materials intended to anhiliate citizens of a town libdem4life Feb 2015 #122

Fallacious argument. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #125

Who is WE? And no, it's really not academic at all. ISIS is at war, whether we acknowledge it or libdem4life Feb 2015 #133

That's what I asked you. And yes, it is fallacious. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #167

No, again, we lack the moral ground to be outraged and wag our fingers. If we did not do the same libdem4life Feb 2015 #183

Checkmate, Logic! Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #209

I believe your question was Who is We? "We" is a collective yet contextual personal pronoun. libdem4life Feb 2015 #210

Her name was/is Phan Thi Kim Phuc Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #182

Quite a remarkable woman. Thanks for the url. libdem4life Feb 2015 #184

"We" and by we I mean our elected leaders who claim to be Christians yet always ok sending Autumn Feb 2015 #218

Your "point" gives ISIS a pass. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2015 #95

Which part of my 4th paragraph is unclear? nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #111

If you think that fixes it, it doesn't. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2015 #121

Nope. nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #124

I believe Manny is lamenting the lack of moral outrage in the popular media Maedhros Feb 2015 #132

If so, this is exactly the wrong time for that. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2015 #134

There is no debate to be had over ISIS atrocities. Maedhros Feb 2015 #137

Everything isn't "all about us" (as in, self-centered as hell) Waiting For Everyman Feb 2015 #160

The United States is the #1 purveyor of violence in the world. Maedhros Feb 2015 #169

can you really prove that. i dont think you can arely staircase Feb 2015 #177

THANK You. whathehell Feb 2015 #144

Really? That's what he meant by "a few years back?" MADem Feb 2015 #170

Manny wrote "a few years ago"? Holy #%^*!!!!! MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #189

No, Manny wrote "a few years BACK." MADem Feb 2015 #193

Even worse. MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #194

How old are you? nt MADem Feb 2015 #195

I'm so glad I found this post and THANK YOU for writing this. Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #239

Has ISIS pulled somebody behind a truck yet? LannyDeVaney Feb 2015 #96

Don't give them any ideas./NT DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #105

Yes, but they had the One True God on their side. Just like ISIS does. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #99

Of course, Abe's religion doesn't work for psychopaths rock Feb 2015 #104

thank you. this was something I pointed out in another OP on the burnings. the roman niyad Feb 2015 #106

When you say a few years don't you mean hundreds of years ago? dilby Feb 2015 #113

I'm not justifying ANY of it. MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #116

Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #120

That's why they called him "HONEST Abe". n/t Smarmie Doofus Feb 2015 #115

You love cancer. sibelian Feb 2015 #119

Italians used to do that a few years back. Kaleva Feb 2015 #123

Thanks for the post illustrating that civilization has made progress onenote Feb 2015 #127

+1 outside Feb 2015 #129

Unless of course the politicians say it's OK.. Fumesucker Feb 2015 #241

heck, even Mexico was crucifying peasants in the 20s MisterP Feb 2015 #135

You make a great point, two wrongs do make a right. ileus Feb 2015 #136

Yes, that what I wrote MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #139

I understand the Romans crucified people... brooklynite Feb 2015 #138

Not what I wrote. MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #140

Seems you've had to reiterate Bobbie Jo Feb 2015 #159

Mea culpa MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #206

Well... Bobbie Jo Feb 2015 #212

Christians were burning people to death "a few years back"? What's your definition of a "few years"? cherokeeprogressive Feb 2015 #146

Next up "The Crusades!!!" ileus Feb 2015 #149

Close, but... I can't get there from here. cherokeeprogressive Feb 2015 #166

People can be very cruel. Believers and non-believers can be cruel. hrmjustin Feb 2015 #150

Obama agrees with you BeyondGeography Feb 2015 #153

Fortunately, understanding irony requires a minimum IQ MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #163

Thought you might enjoy this MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #190

Manny, here is a modern version of Christian Extremism: SomethingFishy Feb 2015 #180

Using religion to justify doing nothing when people are being brutalized is btrflykng9 Feb 2015 #187

What's unclear about paragraph 4? MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #188

It looks like President Obama has been reading DU, and your thread in the past few days. dissentient Feb 2015 #191

There's a perfectly-reasonable explanation, I swear... MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #192

Just a few years... n2doc Feb 2015 #201

+1000 MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #208

The Inquisition's auto-da-fe aint_no_life_nowhere Feb 2015 #217

Yes but then they eventually grew out of the stone age unlike some islamic countries glasshouses Feb 2015 #221

Thanks Obama! countryjake Feb 2015 #223