General Discussion

patrice

(47,992 posts)

83. What you say is the sense in which the statement "Freedom isn't free" IS true. It takes utter

Fri Apr 27, 2012, 04:02 PM

Apr 2012

immediate diligence and responsibility in all of the dimensions that you mention.

It also requires the realization, and this seems particularly pertinent to sexual identity, . . . it also requires the realization that Freedom does not necessarily mean NO CONSEQUENCES. Freedom requires the ability and willingness to recognize whatever consequences there may be and to make authentic CHOICES about them. If I choose to suffer the consequences of my actions, I am free of oppression and limitation by those consequences. If I CAN'T do that, I am enslaved by consequences and those who generate them.

I usually get a chuckle out of so many Libertarians who tell me that we aren't free because of this or that law or regulation. You CAN do that, whatever, for which you can accept the consequences. That's what "I am Spartacus" means.

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Why would a straight person chose to be anything other than straight? [View all] Quixote1818 Apr 2012 OP

Which reminds me of this video by Thom Hartmann Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #1

I don't think anyone chooses their orientation at all. MineralMan Apr 2012 #2

I agree, I just enjoyed pointing out to this person that perhaps they are gay/bi and haven't come Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #5

To brand those that question whether Gay is inborn or not, may make you FEEL good, but is counterpro WingDinger Apr 2012 #24

I disagree 100%. Not branding them anything. Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #35

WE are ALL bisexual, to some extent. WingDinger Apr 2012 #38

How do you know? Have you been inside everyones body? Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #39

By making Bisexuality some kind of aberration, and solidly restraining yourself to one or the WingDinger Apr 2012 #41

Who is making bisexuality an aberration? Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #46

The drive to make gay inborn, has made many WingDinger Apr 2012 #48

I don't care if someone is 100% gay or 1% gay or completely 100% straight Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #50

THAT, is the proper way to fight for LGBT rights. WingDinger Apr 2012 #52

When did you write the playbook? TriMera Apr 2012 #54

I fought the continuum concept when young, as I too was homophobic. WingDinger Apr 2012 #55

You can still have the continuum concept and accept that we don't choose how we are. CJCRANE Apr 2012 #60

I would buy that as a working theory. WingDinger Apr 2012 #62

Exactly. There's no choosing one's orientation. It just is. MineralMan Apr 2012 #65

This post makes no sense. TriMera Apr 2012 #53

The "ALL sexual identity is 100% inborn" argument is TOOOO close to so-called "Natural Law" patrice Apr 2012 #78

Bullseye yesphan Apr 2012 #3

Haven't you heard? Gay sex is so good that it'll make you.... Scuba Apr 2012 #4

And there's all those cool parades. Iggo Apr 2012 #49

Funny how your logic never gets into the discussion. Old and In the Way Apr 2012 #6

That's the way I've always thought about the issue. hifiguy Apr 2012 #92

As a straight woman, I would love the ability to choose lapislzi Apr 2012 #7

So you can't do something you admit you may want to do? Puzzledtraveller Apr 2012 #27

1. Kinda sorta. 2. I totally agree. lapislzi Apr 2012 #47

omg this is pure gold SwampG8r Apr 2012 #8

I agree! It just came to me this am because it occurred to me that I have zero attraction to other Quixote1818 Apr 2012 #18

On the flip side loyalsister Apr 2012 #9

Plus, if you date someone with the same body type and size, you double your wardrobe. Arkana Apr 2012 #33

That's so true. nt shcrane71 Apr 2012 #43

We have a choice to treat those who love us with dignity, compassion, honesty and loyalty - hedgehog Apr 2012 #10

I don't know; I was born LGBT. Zorra Apr 2012 #11

These people who say there is a choice must have had to make a choice. Downwinder Apr 2012 #12

It is an organic CHOICE, made about Two years of age. WingDinger Apr 2012 #13

WTF is an "organic choice"? TriMera Apr 2012 #20

An organic choice is, that you didnt get a worksheet, or multiple choice test. WingDinger Apr 2012 #22

Why do you feel the need to complicate things? TriMera Apr 2012 #26

Why? Do we need to end fodder to freaks like Bachmann and her homophobe husband? WingDinger Apr 2012 #29

Oh, I do face homophobia directly. Most every day. TriMera Apr 2012 #36

much like being left or right handed LanternWaste Apr 2012 #56

I am ambidextrous, by practice, not heredity. There are likely related changes to my brain. WingDinger Apr 2012 #57

Did you choose to be tall or short? LanternWaste Apr 2012 #82

But it is genetic. Arkana Apr 2012 #31

"When did you choose to be straight?" CJCRANE Apr 2012 #14

Do you remember enough about being Two, to answer? WingDinger Apr 2012 #15

I'm not a philosopher or scientist CJCRANE Apr 2012 #16

You very well COULd have chosen then, and forgotten now. WingDinger Apr 2012 #17

If I'm not aware of it, then it's not a choice IMO. CJCRANE Apr 2012 #25

I think you're confusing forcing a thing, and merely observing the reality of a thing. LanternWaste Apr 2012 #58

Thank you. n/t TriMera Apr 2012 #59

You can almost see the "light bulb" go on over their heads when they are asked..... Fla Dem Apr 2012 #68

I tell anyone who says it's a choice leftynyc Apr 2012 #19

What is the purpose in "shutting them up"? WingDinger Apr 2012 #21

I think the poster means that they don't have an answer to that CJCRANE Apr 2012 #28

I still ask, other than the fear of freaks like Bachmann and her hubby, what is to be gained by SHUT WingDinger Apr 2012 #37

You are playing into the hands of Bachmann et al. CJCRANE Apr 2012 #40

Homophobia, and much of wingnuttery, should be portrayed like WingDinger Apr 2012 #45

Anyone who thinks it's a choice leftynyc Apr 2012 #61

Gotta leave a little room for experimenting libodem Apr 2012 #23

If it was a choice, no one would choose it. Arkana Apr 2012 #30

If sucking toes was a choice, would Dickwad Morris choose it? And have to TOE Hannity's line? WingDinger Apr 2012 #32

Bazinga. Arkana Apr 2012 #34

sexual orientation isn't a choice johnnypneumatic Apr 2012 #42

It's about biology. Individual biologies vary. About that variation: One of the major tools patrice Apr 2012 #44

Some who are bisexual choose to repress their homosexual desires closeupready Apr 2012 #51

Yes! And BECAUSE that is possible, so is the converse. SOME, i.e. not all, who are bisexual patrice Apr 2012 #63

Yes, I agree with that. I do indeed think some bisexuals closeupready Apr 2012 #67

What you are blaming on caucasians, is in large part, the result of choosing a horse in the race. WingDinger Apr 2012 #69

If I understand your point, I'm not sure I agree with it. closeupready Apr 2012 #74

That kind of static zero-sum thinking has cost us so profoundly EVER so much more than we will patrice Apr 2012 #71

Yup. Most people don't realize it, but closeupready Apr 2012 #76

What you say is the sense in which the statement "Freedom isn't free" IS true. It takes utter patrice Apr 2012 #83

I can tell you get it. Seriously. You've thought about this a lot. closeupready Apr 2012 #85

I used to teach high-school seniors. Saw a lot. I HAD to understand or else! patrice Apr 2012 #86

the real question is: provis99 Apr 2012 #64

So true. AverageJoe90 Apr 2012 #66

Unlike LGBT, there is less utility in deeming you as choosing or inheriting. WingDinger Apr 2012 #70

Good point there. nt AverageJoe90 Apr 2012 #73

Absolutely. Average Jane here ... cr8tvlde Apr 2012 #75

I would ask this back - 'Why would anyone choose to be a dumbass douchebag?' LynneSin Apr 2012 #72

LMAO!!! Behind the Aegis Apr 2012 #80

It is possible to wonder that about those who are trying to tell us that ALL sexual identity is 100% patrice Apr 2012 #87

To be honest, I don't think anyone is truly 100% straight or gay LynneSin Apr 2012 #88

He, he . . . I kind of thought that post didn't seem all that characteristic of you ... patrice Apr 2012 #89

Well, you'll never be a good Mormon with that attitude. Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #90

BTW, neither do I. And some of us can be psychologically vulnerable to members of the same sex patrice Apr 2012 #94

Because Hertz gives gay people the best rate on their car rentals? Ian David Apr 2012 #77

Even bisexuality is not a choice, though it is commonly and mistakenly thought to be. Behind the Aegis Apr 2012 #79

Nature/biology does not exist/develop in a vacuum. The context in which it evolves is physical & patrice Apr 2012 #84

I must say: I am soooooo happy! to see an intelligent civil debate about this here on DU now. patrice Apr 2012 #81

Good reply! Took me a minute to think about it. Rex Apr 2012 #91

"... only way ..."??? Or a person could just choose, more or less authentically, to not act on patrice Apr 2012 #93

The strange thing is, this either or gay or straight jazz WingDinger Apr 2012 #95

Who is we? And, do you have any links to back up TriMera Apr 2012 #96

Not the gay closet. the straight one. WingDinger Apr 2012 #97

The universe of persons, to which that theory "inborn gay" can be posed as an exclusion is a MIGHTY patrice Apr 2012 #99

Agree completely. It's a threat to self-identity & causes defensiveness on those grounds alone, patrice Apr 2012 #98