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In reply to the discussion: Post removed [View all]
 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
30. Wow, you just made the same debunked argument EVERY anti-Vaxxer makes.
Sun Feb 8, 2015, 12:44 PM
Feb 2015


http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/mmrdeaths.asp

Long debunked. In fact, your post is irrational and dangerous.

Your reliance upon VAERS data basically makes your entire argument BUNK!

VAERS Data
Guide to Interpreting VAERS Case Report Information

When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.
VAERS data contains coincidental events and those truly caused by vaccines.

More than 10 million vaccines per year are given to children less than 1 year old, usually between 2 and 6 months of age. At this age, infants are at greatest risk for certain medical adverse events, including high fevers, seizures, and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). Some infants will experience these medical events shortly after a vaccination by coincidence.

These coincidences make it difficult to know whether a particular adverse event resulted from a medical condition or from a vaccination. Therefore, vaccine providers are encouraged to report all adverse events following vaccination, whether or not they believe the vaccination was the cause.

Please read the following statement on the limits of VAERS data. You MUST click on the box below to access the VAERS database.

When reviewing data from VAERS, please keep in mind the following limitations:

VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning that reports about adverse events are not automatically collected, but require a report to be filed to VAERS. VAERS reports can be submitted voluntarily by anyone, including healthcare providers, patients, or family members. Reports vary in quality and completeness. They often lack details and sometimes can have information that contains errors.

"Underreporting" is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely. As an example, a great many of the millions of vaccinations administered each year by injection cause soreness, but relatively few of these episodes lead to a VAERS report. Physicians and patients understand that minor side effects of vaccinations often include this kind of discomfort, as well as low fevers. On the other hand, more serious and unexpected medical events are probably more likely to be reported than minor ones, especially when they occur soon after vaccination, even if they may be coincidental and related to other causes.

A report to VAERS generally does not prove that the identified vaccine(s) caused the adverse event described. It only confirms that the reported event occurred sometime after vaccine was given. No proof that the event was caused by the vaccine is required in order for VAERS to accept the report. VAERS accepts all reports without judging whether the event was caused by the vaccine.

DISCLAIMER: Please note that VAERS staff follow-up on all serious and other selected adverse event reports to obtain additional medical, laboratory, and/or autopsy records to help understand the concern raised. However, in general coding terms in VAERS do not change based on the information received during the follow-up process. VAERS data should be used with caution as numbers and conditions do not reflect data collected during follow-up. Note that the inclusion of events in VAERS data does not imply causality.


https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index

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Post removed [View all] Post removed Feb 2015 OP
The enormous fucking hole in that analysis: Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #1
I'm talking about the present. If the numbers change, so do the costs and benefits. Obviously. DanTex Feb 2015 #2
There was a measles outbreak in 1989-91 that infected 55k and killed 123. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #3
Anectodal evidence, huh. Yes, I'm assuming that event was covered by that study which DanTex Feb 2015 #5
We lived in a society where "most" people were vaccinated, presumably, in 1989. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #7
I don't think you understand what an "individual decision" is. DanTex Feb 2015 #12
The consequences of your "individual decision" can onecaliberal Feb 2015 #22
The overall historical fatality rate... Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #32
There are other holes as well Major Nikon Feb 2015 #14
The argument doesn't rely on 1950s data for anything except for DanTex Feb 2015 #18
Using data post 2000 would make even less sense Major Nikon Feb 2015 #36
Well, we live in 2015, so there's that... DanTex Feb 2015 #39
so do we live in a ME society... handmade34 Feb 2015 #4
You are right about that. Not vaccinating is a selfish act. But it is not an irrational one. DanTex Feb 2015 #9
Your reasoning is false jehop61 Feb 2015 #6
50 years ago, the risk of contracting measles was far higher than it was today. DanTex Feb 2015 #11
redo your math, marym625 Feb 2015 #8
What part? Mortality rate is mortality rate. DanTex Feb 2015 #10
baloney marym625 Feb 2015 #17
That's a societal argument, not an individual one. DanTex Feb 2015 #19
If the vaccination rates drop marym625 Feb 2015 #25
Yes, and if vaccination rates drop and measles rates go up, then at some point DanTex Feb 2015 #38
"That's a societal argument, not an individual one" OMFG shoot me up the ass right now, sibelian Feb 2015 #28
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you not understand the distinction between a societal DanTex Feb 2015 #34
Thank you! marym625 Feb 2015 #35
Not only is it irrational, it's plain stupid. Dr Hobbitstein Feb 2015 #13
Fair enough, but is there anything wrong with the math or the argument in the OP? DanTex Feb 2015 #15
Anti-anti-vax? Isn't that what the anti-vaxxers say to try and smear Dr Hobbitstein Feb 2015 #21
+1 marym625 Feb 2015 #27
Your "math" specifically avoids asking the relevant questions. sibelian Feb 2015 #37
What relevant questions? And can we do this without the personal attacks? DanTex Feb 2015 #40
Wow. Let's look at some materials from Europe for comparison... Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #16
If you live in a country with highe measles rates the cost-benefit analysis will change. Obviously. DanTex Feb 2015 #23
145,000 deaths EVERY YEAR from measles -- and that's at current vaccination levels mainer Feb 2015 #20
That's worldwide, not in the US. I'm talking about the cost-benefit analysis for an individual in DanTex Feb 2015 #26
Yes, it is really irrational to skip the MMR vaccine. 99Forever Feb 2015 #24
Fair enough, just curious if there is any statistical or logical argument behind that sentiment. DanTex Feb 2015 #29
I generally don't argue with stupid. 99Forever Feb 2015 #33
+1 marym625 Feb 2015 #31
Wow, you just made the same debunked argument EVERY anti-Vaxxer makes. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #30
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