General Discussion

frazzled

(18,402 posts)

11. Agreed (and yes, cross-dressing and transgender are separate issues)

Mon Feb 9, 2015, 03:17 PM

Feb 2015

When someone you marry turns out to be someone different than that which was revealed before marriage, there is an understandable sense of having been betrayed or deceived. And there is self-doubt: was I just being used? Is there something wrong with me?

In addition: there is no way of verifying this made-up dialogue.

I have no skin in this game whatsoever: they are all publicity hounds, including Jenner, who wouldn't be about to put this all in a tv special otherwise.

Why do we care about this anyway? Are we just feeding the publicity machine? (For disclosure: I have had friends whose husbands have left them because they were gay; and yes, the wives were hurt—you have to understand that there has been pain on both sides. I also have a friend currently transitioning (f to m), of which I am very supportive.)

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Kris Jenner Trans- Shamed Bruce Jenner For Years After Finding Him Wearing Her Dresses [View all] big_dog Feb 2015 OP

Well, so much for the whole she was "shocked, shocked" and "had no idea" meme she's been shopping. MADem Feb 2015 #1

it won the Golden Globe this year, right? big_dog Feb 2015 #3

Astounding series--first rate acting, it has that wry, quirky, but not-overdone funniness to it, and MADem Feb 2015 #32

I am no fan of Kris Jenner. However, the time to reveal a penchant for cross dressing is before you merrily Feb 2015 #2

Agreed (and yes, cross-dressing and transgender are separate issues) frazzled Feb 2015 #11

It has nothing to do with being supportive of members of the GLBT community. Few things have merrily Feb 2015 #13

I agree Dorian Gray Feb 2015 #30

I also have a friend currently transitioning (f to m), of which I am very supportive. KamaAina Feb 2015 #40

I agree 100%. crim son Feb 2015 #26

They were married for 22 years I think. HappyMe Feb 2015 #28

And Bruck couldn't? get the red out Feb 2015 #53

She was the one that was so damn ashamed. HappyMe Feb 2015 #55

I am not excusing her behavior get the red out Feb 2015 #57

I'm just asking, maybe he didn't lie about anything after her first catching him in a dress? polly7 Feb 2015 #60

In the end get the red out Feb 2015 #62

You're right, and it's none of my business - I couldn't care less if I even knew who polly7 Feb 2015 #63

They do like to make it everybody's business get the red out Feb 2015 #73

I am not entirely sure that he lied to her. HappyMe Feb 2015 #65

Apparently he didn't have any choice in the matter? LisaL Feb 2015 #91

Or maybe the "right thing" would have been for him to be honest before entering his third marriage. pnwmom Feb 2015 #104

And, as a man over 40 when he married her, he was old enough to know himself well pnwmom Feb 2015 #98

Wow. Have you spent anytime really talking to any trans* individual? Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #41

+infinity (nt) LostOne4Ever Feb 2015 #44

I've spent time talking to gay people, straight people whom gay people married without disclosure merrily Feb 2015 #48

It is really not as simple as just concealing the truth. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #67

I posted about failure to disclose material info to a prospective spouse or conception partner. merrily Feb 2015 #83

Your words: "if someone feels they cannot disclose the truth" Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #92

Exactly. Disclosure. Failing to disclose does not equal lying. merrily Feb 2015 #93

My point is there may be no material information to disclose. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #94

And you're assuming that he lived intimately with at least two other women (his other wives) pnwmom Feb 2015 #103

I am assuming nothing about him, specifically. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #115

I've only known one couple like this. pnwmom Feb 2015 #120

You still have assumptions in there that Jenner has not yet shared. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #126

If a woman is wearing her husband's clothing to look like a man TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #128

You are presuming you understand the motivation. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #133

If a guy is wearing a wig and makeup, he's a cross dresser TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #135

Or he likes the way he looks and feels in make-up. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #138

sigh TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #139

Now you've added even more to the scenario under discussion. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #143

I replied to a message on this board that referenced "cross dressing" TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #144

I agree. Of course, you cannot disclose what you genuinely do not know. merrily Feb 2015 #109

I think it might have been that simple. pnwmom Feb 2015 #102

It isn't the details of his marriage that are at issue here. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #114

Hints at what? That the process took place over a long period of time? n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #122

There is nothing in the reports I have seen about Jenner Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #125

You are right, of course. We don't know. pnwmom Feb 2015 #127

It is not that I am guessing another thing. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #134

And I guess I'm seeing it more from the unknowing spouse's point of view pnwmom Feb 2015 #136

Again - my entire point is that both parties may be unknowing. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #137

As the daughter of a gay father and straight mother, I agree. pnwmom Feb 2015 #101

I think that will happen a lot less, maybe end, now that people are feeling freer and freer merrily Feb 2015 #108

I do, too. And that's what I tell conservatives who are still against same sex marriage. pnwmom Feb 2015 #111

Everyone is better off when all people can flourish. merrily Feb 2015 #112

Wow, that really is a brilliant observation, merrily. Thanks. closeupready Feb 2015 #116

Aw, thanks, closeupready. Made me blush, you did. merrily Feb 2015 #117

But he was over 40 when he married her -- old enough, I think, to realize pnwmom Feb 2015 #99

Not necessarily. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #113

I'm not thinking he would know based on prior sexual experience with women. pnwmom Feb 2015 #123

I feel the same get the red out Feb 2015 #56

I applaud Bruce Jenner damnedifIknow Feb 2015 #66

Too bad he didn't live it... Ino Feb 2015 #79

Wow. joshcryer Feb 2015 #95

I agree. The same with being gay. You don't conceal this from a future spouse, pnwmom Feb 2015 #97

"The source" is busy these days. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #4

She can't have been surprised ... Myrina Feb 2015 #5

Because an ex wife never lies? merrily Feb 2015 #49

No, because all of the families in that clique were tight as the thieves they are ... Myrina Feb 2015 #81

Who beside Jenner's wife had first hand knowledge, though? And we don't even know if she merrily Feb 2015 #82

Yes, cross-dresser men aren't necessarily transgender. LisaL Feb 2015 #90

Now I know why Brody hated Kris. muntrv Feb 2015 #6

Kris had been a fame whore for years before the OJ trials big_dog Feb 2015 #7

Who is Brody ? obnoxiousdrunk Feb 2015 #8

Bruces son from an earlier marriage big_dog Feb 2015 #9

Quite a while ago I watched their show on E ocassionally. HappyMe Feb 2015 #10

Kris is out for her and her younger daughters only big_dog Feb 2015 #12

AFAIK, she is still their manager. merrily Feb 2015 #14

at least Kris hasn't destroyed Kendall's career as a model yet big_dog Feb 2015 #16

Funny you should mention that. merrily Feb 2015 #17

I cannot believe Kendall is the new face of Chanel 2015, are they really that desperate? big_dog Feb 2015 #19

Obviously I watch/listen to too much TV. However, I have heard designers say merrily Feb 2015 #22

She is SO plain. Almost horse-y looking. closeupready Feb 2015 #34

And I'm sure you look like a supermodel. Brigid Feb 2015 #69

I may or may not, but I don't pretend to be; this one does, though closeupready Feb 2015 #70

to you. A particular opinion I imagine, the industry finds irrelevant LanternWaste Feb 2015 #71

Great. Another member took ME to task for expressing my opinion. closeupready Feb 2015 #77

Be all that as it may . . . Brigid Feb 2015 #74

Okay, thanks, Ms. English major. Done here. Peace. closeupready Feb 2015 #78

Okay to call McCain gramps though right? snooper2 Feb 2015 #84

This young lady did nothing more than appear in a magazine ad. Brigid Feb 2015 #85

Which is a good thing. It shows that even "average looks" = beautiful. alp227 Feb 2015 #129

that was my take as well Kendall is just so AVERAGE big_dog Feb 2015 #76

I personally wouldn't mind looking that "plain." LisaL Feb 2015 #88

Seriously. They are really slumming it. smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #140

Trashy people. nt cwydro Feb 2015 #15

Anybody got any pictures of this circus troupe? TheCowsCameHome Feb 2015 #18

they alway do an x-mas card, probably for $$ big_dog Feb 2015 #20

Thanks, it looks like TheCowsCameHome Feb 2015 #21

I don't know them all, but I'll try Orangepeel Feb 2015 #59

I'm late to this thread. Is that the Addams Family? truebluegreen Feb 2015 #23

Exactly. n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2015 #24

No... NaturalHigh Feb 2015 #25

Well, to be fair, they are mysterious and spooky... Initech Feb 2015 #27

You are right: Dark Shadows is a better fit, truebluegreen Feb 2015 #119

I stand corrected. Initech Feb 2015 #121

That was my first thought as well! Owl Feb 2015 #118

Good gods who dresses those people? DeadLetterOffice Feb 2015 #31

The Adams Family's tailor? Or the costume designer from True Blood? Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2015 #38

Good Lord NT Ex Lurker Feb 2015 #33

How I loathe Kris Jenner. closeupready Feb 2015 #36

Looks like an ad for Cosmetic surgery... Ilsa Feb 2015 #39

What a bunch of assholes. So much ego and pretension. nt stillwaiting Feb 2015 #52

Oh god, that's horrifying. smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #141

I believe that her reaction Dorian Gray Feb 2015 #29

Thank you.. whathehell Feb 2015 #35

How is one supposed to react after finding out your husband believes he is a woman? LisaL Feb 2015 #37

It seems just as odd to me that anybody would be upset about it. MadrasT Feb 2015 #42

Why get the red out Feb 2015 #61

Exactly.. whathehell Feb 2015 #107

Then maybe your attraction is more fluid than many folks TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #131

Maybe accept her for who she is- a loved one? (nt) LostOne4Ever Feb 2015 #45

I would imagine that the reaction should have HappyMe Feb 2015 #54

She did have a bunch of kids before she married Jenner. LisaL Feb 2015 #87

Thank you as well.. whathehell Feb 2015 #58

That's certainly an understandable reaction. joshcryer Feb 2015 #96

Why didn't she divorce him if she was so shamed? polly7 Feb 2015 #43

Why didn't he divorce her? LisaL Feb 2015 #89

Have you considered the possibility he was trying to fight any feelings he had polly7 Feb 2015 #100

Has Bruce Jenner confirmed this yet? (nt) LostOne4Ever Feb 2015 #46

I am proud to say tavernier Feb 2015 #47

At His Size and Frame. . . ProfessorGAC Feb 2015 #50

I was thinking the same thing jmowreader Feb 2015 #75

Good point. Maybe this "insider" is just a friend trying to do him a favor. n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #105

This is radaronline melman Feb 2015 #51

"hurt the Kardashian empire" -- a media frenzy about an Olympic athlete having a sex change fits GreatGazoo Feb 2015 #64

The hubris of Kris is pretty impressive Major Nikon Feb 2015 #68

Amazing this story comes out now Egnever Feb 2015 #72

Tabloid at it's finest! Catherine Vincent Feb 2015 #80

Isn't she famous because her daughter made a sex tape? McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #86

Kris is an obnoxious person, so this "insiders" comment is easy to believe. pnwmom Feb 2015 #106

This message was self-deleted by its author alp227 Feb 2015 #130

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #110

Kris is addicted to wealth, fame, and material bullshit. Kind of sad. Initech Feb 2015 #124

The question is why he wanted to marry her. Couldn't he have found someone less toxic? pnwmom Feb 2015 #132

Again I am sticking with my comment - 'Has Bruce Jenner officially said anything' LynneSin Feb 2015 #142

Well, there are photos of him TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #145

Photos can be photoshopped LynneSin Feb 2015 #146

I agree it is odd TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #147

Oh I agree LynneSin Feb 2015 #149

Oh bullshit Egnever Feb 2015 #148