Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Ms. Toad

(38,648 posts)
41. Wow. Have you spent anytime really talking to any trans* individual?
Mon Feb 9, 2015, 07:34 PM
Feb 2015

Particularly older trans* individuals often fight themselves for years before acknowledging that part of who they are to themselves; before they stop hoping that if they can just {fill in the blank} it will all go away. It is a HUGE step from there to telling even one other person.

My high school sweetheart transitioned a couple of years ago. We're 40+ years out of high school. She knew about herself before we started dating when we were 14-ish. For a high school couple we were extraordinarily close. In hindsight it played a huge role in both how close we were - and in how abruptly she ended our relationship. But she never even hinted about it at the time - even though we talked deeply about nearly everything.

She told me about 4 years ago. She's married - she has been for around 30 years. She didn't tell her wife until shortly before she told me (I was the second non-trans* person she told). She wasn't deliberately keeping something from her wife - she was just convinced that she would never be able to live as a woman, that she owed it to her wife to be the man her wife married, and she would have to just get by until she died.

She is one of the lucky ones - although she already had a suicide plan when I met her when we were 12, it was more theoretical than an option she was likely to execute. But it says a lot that for 90% of her life she has known how she would end it if just getting by became overwhelmingly hard. And 41% of trans* individuals attempt suicide.

So it is insultingly trivializes how hard it is to share that part of who you are to describe it as "a penchant," and to condemn someone for how long they wait before they tell their significant other - it is often a matter of life and death, and life often means keeping quiet until you just can't contain it any longer.

The good news, for my dear friend, is that once she transitioned she is far happier than I have ever known her. It is such a joy to be able to celebrate all of who she is!

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Well, so much for the whole she was "shocked, shocked" and "had no idea" meme she's been shopping. MADem Feb 2015 #1
it won the Golden Globe this year, right? big_dog Feb 2015 #3
Astounding series--first rate acting, it has that wry, quirky, but not-overdone funniness to it, and MADem Feb 2015 #32
I am no fan of Kris Jenner. However, the time to reveal a penchant for cross dressing is before you merrily Feb 2015 #2
Agreed (and yes, cross-dressing and transgender are separate issues) frazzled Feb 2015 #11
It has nothing to do with being supportive of members of the GLBT community. Few things have merrily Feb 2015 #13
I agree Dorian Gray Feb 2015 #30
I also have a friend currently transitioning (f to m), of which I am very supportive. KamaAina Feb 2015 #40
I agree 100%. crim son Feb 2015 #26
They were married for 22 years I think. HappyMe Feb 2015 #28
And Bruck couldn't? get the red out Feb 2015 #53
She was the one that was so damn ashamed. HappyMe Feb 2015 #55
I am not excusing her behavior get the red out Feb 2015 #57
I'm just asking, maybe he didn't lie about anything after her first catching him in a dress? polly7 Feb 2015 #60
In the end get the red out Feb 2015 #62
You're right, and it's none of my business - I couldn't care less if I even knew who polly7 Feb 2015 #63
They do like to make it everybody's business get the red out Feb 2015 #73
I am not entirely sure that he lied to her. HappyMe Feb 2015 #65
Apparently he didn't have any choice in the matter? LisaL Feb 2015 #91
Or maybe the "right thing" would have been for him to be honest before entering his third marriage. pnwmom Feb 2015 #104
And, as a man over 40 when he married her, he was old enough to know himself well pnwmom Feb 2015 #98
Wow. Have you spent anytime really talking to any trans* individual? Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #41
+infinity (nt) LostOne4Ever Feb 2015 #44
I've spent time talking to gay people, straight people whom gay people married without disclosure merrily Feb 2015 #48
It is really not as simple as just concealing the truth. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #67
I posted about failure to disclose material info to a prospective spouse or conception partner. merrily Feb 2015 #83
Your words: "if someone feels they cannot disclose the truth" Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #92
Exactly. Disclosure. Failing to disclose does not equal lying. merrily Feb 2015 #93
My point is there may be no material information to disclose. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #94
And you're assuming that he lived intimately with at least two other women (his other wives) pnwmom Feb 2015 #103
I am assuming nothing about him, specifically. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #115
I've only known one couple like this. pnwmom Feb 2015 #120
You still have assumptions in there that Jenner has not yet shared. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #126
If a woman is wearing her husband's clothing to look like a man TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #128
You are presuming you understand the motivation. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #133
If a guy is wearing a wig and makeup, he's a cross dresser TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #135
Or he likes the way he looks and feels in make-up. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #138
sigh TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #139
Now you've added even more to the scenario under discussion. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #143
I replied to a message on this board that referenced "cross dressing" TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #144
I agree. Of course, you cannot disclose what you genuinely do not know. merrily Feb 2015 #109
I think it might have been that simple. pnwmom Feb 2015 #102
It isn't the details of his marriage that are at issue here. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #114
Hints at what? That the process took place over a long period of time? n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #122
There is nothing in the reports I have seen about Jenner Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #125
You are right, of course. We don't know. pnwmom Feb 2015 #127
It is not that I am guessing another thing. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #134
And I guess I'm seeing it more from the unknowing spouse's point of view pnwmom Feb 2015 #136
Again - my entire point is that both parties may be unknowing. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #137
As the daughter of a gay father and straight mother, I agree. pnwmom Feb 2015 #101
I think that will happen a lot less, maybe end, now that people are feeling freer and freer merrily Feb 2015 #108
I do, too. And that's what I tell conservatives who are still against same sex marriage. pnwmom Feb 2015 #111
Everyone is better off when all people can flourish. merrily Feb 2015 #112
Wow, that really is a brilliant observation, merrily. Thanks. closeupready Feb 2015 #116
Aw, thanks, closeupready. Made me blush, you did. merrily Feb 2015 #117
But he was over 40 when he married her -- old enough, I think, to realize pnwmom Feb 2015 #99
Not necessarily. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #113
I'm not thinking he would know based on prior sexual experience with women. pnwmom Feb 2015 #123
I feel the same get the red out Feb 2015 #56
I applaud Bruce Jenner damnedifIknow Feb 2015 #66
Too bad he didn't live it... Ino Feb 2015 #79
Wow. joshcryer Feb 2015 #95
I agree. The same with being gay. You don't conceal this from a future spouse, pnwmom Feb 2015 #97
"The source" is busy these days. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #4
She can't have been surprised ... Myrina Feb 2015 #5
Because an ex wife never lies? merrily Feb 2015 #49
No, because all of the families in that clique were tight as the thieves they are ... Myrina Feb 2015 #81
Who beside Jenner's wife had first hand knowledge, though? And we don't even know if she merrily Feb 2015 #82
Yes, cross-dresser men aren't necessarily transgender. LisaL Feb 2015 #90
Now I know why Brody hated Kris. muntrv Feb 2015 #6
Kris had been a fame whore for years before the OJ trials big_dog Feb 2015 #7
Who is Brody ? obnoxiousdrunk Feb 2015 #8
Bruces son from an earlier marriage big_dog Feb 2015 #9
Quite a while ago I watched their show on E ocassionally. HappyMe Feb 2015 #10
Kris is out for her and her younger daughters only big_dog Feb 2015 #12
AFAIK, she is still their manager. merrily Feb 2015 #14
at least Kris hasn't destroyed Kendall's career as a model yet big_dog Feb 2015 #16
Funny you should mention that. merrily Feb 2015 #17
I cannot believe Kendall is the new face of Chanel 2015, are they really that desperate? big_dog Feb 2015 #19
Obviously I watch/listen to too much TV. However, I have heard designers say merrily Feb 2015 #22
She is SO plain. Almost horse-y looking. closeupready Feb 2015 #34
And I'm sure you look like a supermodel. Brigid Feb 2015 #69
I may or may not, but I don't pretend to be; this one does, though closeupready Feb 2015 #70
to you. A particular opinion I imagine, the industry finds irrelevant LanternWaste Feb 2015 #71
Great. Another member took ME to task for expressing my opinion. closeupready Feb 2015 #77
Be all that as it may . . . Brigid Feb 2015 #74
Okay, thanks, Ms. English major. Done here. Peace. closeupready Feb 2015 #78
Okay to call McCain gramps though right? snooper2 Feb 2015 #84
This young lady did nothing more than appear in a magazine ad. Brigid Feb 2015 #85
Which is a good thing. It shows that even "average looks" = beautiful. alp227 Feb 2015 #129
that was my take as well Kendall is just so AVERAGE big_dog Feb 2015 #76
I personally wouldn't mind looking that "plain." LisaL Feb 2015 #88
Seriously. They are really slumming it. smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #140
Trashy people. nt cwydro Feb 2015 #15
Anybody got any pictures of this circus troupe? TheCowsCameHome Feb 2015 #18
they alway do an x-mas card, probably for $$ big_dog Feb 2015 #20
Thanks, it looks like TheCowsCameHome Feb 2015 #21
I don't know them all, but I'll try Orangepeel Feb 2015 #59
I'm late to this thread. Is that the Addams Family? truebluegreen Feb 2015 #23
Exactly. n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2015 #24
No... NaturalHigh Feb 2015 #25
Well, to be fair, they are mysterious and spooky... Initech Feb 2015 #27
You are right: Dark Shadows is a better fit, truebluegreen Feb 2015 #119
I stand corrected. Initech Feb 2015 #121
That was my first thought as well! Owl Feb 2015 #118
Good gods who dresses those people? DeadLetterOffice Feb 2015 #31
The Adams Family's tailor? Or the costume designer from True Blood? Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2015 #38
Good Lord NT Ex Lurker Feb 2015 #33
How I loathe Kris Jenner. closeupready Feb 2015 #36
Looks like an ad for Cosmetic surgery... Ilsa Feb 2015 #39
What a bunch of assholes. So much ego and pretension. nt stillwaiting Feb 2015 #52
Oh god, that's horrifying. smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #141
I believe that her reaction Dorian Gray Feb 2015 #29
Thank you.. whathehell Feb 2015 #35
How is one supposed to react after finding out your husband believes he is a woman? LisaL Feb 2015 #37
It seems just as odd to me that anybody would be upset about it. MadrasT Feb 2015 #42
Why get the red out Feb 2015 #61
Exactly.. whathehell Feb 2015 #107
Then maybe your attraction is more fluid than many folks TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #131
Maybe accept her for who she is- a loved one? (nt) LostOne4Ever Feb 2015 #45
I would imagine that the reaction should have HappyMe Feb 2015 #54
She did have a bunch of kids before she married Jenner. LisaL Feb 2015 #87
Thank you as well.. whathehell Feb 2015 #58
That's certainly an understandable reaction. joshcryer Feb 2015 #96
Why didn't she divorce him if she was so shamed? polly7 Feb 2015 #43
Why didn't he divorce her? LisaL Feb 2015 #89
Have you considered the possibility he was trying to fight any feelings he had polly7 Feb 2015 #100
Has Bruce Jenner confirmed this yet? (nt) LostOne4Ever Feb 2015 #46
I am proud to say tavernier Feb 2015 #47
At His Size and Frame. . . ProfessorGAC Feb 2015 #50
I was thinking the same thing jmowreader Feb 2015 #75
Good point. Maybe this "insider" is just a friend trying to do him a favor. n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #105
This is radaronline melman Feb 2015 #51
"hurt the Kardashian empire" -- a media frenzy about an Olympic athlete having a sex change fits GreatGazoo Feb 2015 #64
The hubris of Kris is pretty impressive Major Nikon Feb 2015 #68
Amazing this story comes out now Egnever Feb 2015 #72
Tabloid at it's finest! Catherine Vincent Feb 2015 #80
Isn't she famous because her daughter made a sex tape? McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #86
Kris is an obnoxious person, so this "insiders" comment is easy to believe. pnwmom Feb 2015 #106
This message was self-deleted by its author alp227 Feb 2015 #130
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #110
Kris is addicted to wealth, fame, and material bullshit. Kind of sad. Initech Feb 2015 #124
The question is why he wanted to marry her. Couldn't he have found someone less toxic? pnwmom Feb 2015 #132
Again I am sticking with my comment - 'Has Bruce Jenner officially said anything' LynneSin Feb 2015 #142
Well, there are photos of him TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #145
Photos can be photoshopped LynneSin Feb 2015 #146
I agree it is odd TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #147
Oh I agree LynneSin Feb 2015 #149
Oh bullshit Egnever Feb 2015 #148
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Kris Jenner Trans- Shamed...»Reply #41