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moondust

(20,011 posts)

170. Foreign trade has been going on for centuries.

Thu Feb 12, 2015, 03:26 PM

Feb 2015

Last edited Thu Feb 12, 2015, 07:21 PM - Edit history (2)

Countries trading domestically produced goods and raw materials. That was generally good and not what has ravaged the job market and middle class.

It's the closing of thousands of factories and offshoring millions of jobs, lots of automation along the way, and financialization that rewards investment/gambling/insider trading rather than work that have led to the inequality and disappearing "good" job opportunities of today. That all got started pretty much in the 70s and then took off in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s.

I'm so old I can remember when electronics and textile products were mostly "Made in USA."

This article from November 2013 frames it as a "forty year slump" starting around 1974.

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Middle class decline looms over final years of Obama presidency [View all] ND-Dem Feb 2015 OP

"But it could have been worse!" MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #1

not for me, unfortunately. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #2

Sorry to hear that! MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #4

But the decline started way before Obama came into the picture. Try the Reagan years for starters. kelliekat44 Feb 2015 #17

THANK YOU. After the first oil shock, or thereabouts. nt raccoon Feb 2015 #28

I agree for the most part JonLP24 Feb 2015 #33

when money talks guillaumeb Feb 2015 #153

"and we're gonna make sure it does": the Third Way policy once they're in office MisterP Feb 2015 #23

Yeah, they can just eat ramen noodles! ananda Feb 2015 #46

Ahhh . . . fyi everyone, this started with Reagan and trickle down and union busting . . . brush Feb 2015 #152

True quaker bill Feb 2015 #176

Decline? Try disappearance. Warpy Feb 2015 #3

I think this is the end game; wealth is moving out of the US to other places in the world. There's ND-Dem Feb 2015 #5

With recent developments, I'd say wealth is moving from other places to the US DFW Feb 2015 #6

I saw that NYT article, more of the same but huge increase in the last 6 years, due to record appalachiablue Feb 2015 #89

You may be right. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #8

Yes, global corporations have a global plan, woo me with science Feb 2015 #11

The new Greek government is inspiring in azmom Feb 2015 #39

+1000000000 woo me with science Feb 2015 #74

Still a few bites left on the carcass; bit gamy, but enough to inspire some economic "activity" hatrack Feb 2015 #32

"no political need" guillaumeb Feb 2015 #154

They know exactly what they've done, because it was the plan. woo me with science Feb 2015 #7

You stated that so succinctly: CrispyQ Feb 2015 #57

+10000000 American exceptionalism. woo me with science Feb 2015 #75

+100 appalachiablue Feb 2015 #88

put the blame where it belongs. reagan + destruction of the unions. tinkle down. pansypoo53219 Feb 2015 #9

We're deluding ourselves if we don't acknowledge the roles played Maedhros Feb 2015 #58

You are right. 840high Feb 2015 #162

What do you think the TPP will do to the middle class? nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #104

I thought the middle class was already dead? YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #120

That's what happens when you replaced middle class jobs with walmart obxhead Feb 2015 #10

A service economy cannot work well. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #13

+1 What a scam. woo me with science Feb 2015 #14

Who robs life of its quality? Who renders rage a necessity Maedhros Feb 2015 #59

Powerful video. woo me with science Feb 2015 #76

Also from Bruce Cockburn, and appropriate to our situation: Maedhros Feb 2015 #163

+2 RiverLover Feb 2015 #20

It's going to take a 50% unemployment rate azmom Feb 2015 #40

Obama did that? Who knew? frazzled Feb 2015 #36

There have been many hits over the years. The difference during this admin is that, at least ND-Dem Feb 2015 #38

It didn't come back during ANY administration's term frazzled Feb 2015 #41

I think you're mistaken. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #45

Not so frazzled Feb 2015 #42

Do you want to post some data on that, as I have? I'm open to being convinced. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #48

Here are a few things to start with frazzled Feb 2015 #66

Your own link says median income continued to rise, despite people at the bottom losing ND-Dem Feb 2015 #81

When did GOP allow Obama's economic and tax policies to pass and replace Bush's? blm Feb 2015 #65

And the relevance to my post is? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #86

LOL - Forgot about GOP holding unemployment checks hostage, eh? blm Feb 2015 #149

huh? maybe if you presented some reference to what you're talking about. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #151

Dems didn't. GOP intransigence that protected Bush's economic and tax policies did. blm Feb 2015 #64

The "recovery" is an illusion of propaganda. woo me with science Feb 2015 #12

That 93% number you have circled in the bottom right GummyBearz Feb 2015 #15

LOL nt RiverLover Feb 2015 #21

The recovery worked just fine. For those for whom it was designed. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #56

+100 appalachiablue Feb 2015 #90

+1000000000 woo me with science Feb 2015 #143

Just watched "Inside Job" on itunes flygal Feb 2015 #16

How was Obama supposed to make any changes the GOP didn't want? Bandit Feb 2015 #30

Yes edhopper Feb 2015 #47

But what is middle class? RazzleCat Feb 2015 #18

I think one hallmark of the 'middle class' is single wager earner households. elias49 Feb 2015 #19

the OP put it in bold for you Enrique Feb 2015 #69

The idea that Obama was a protector of American jobs should have died betterdemsonly Feb 2015 #22

Kick (n/t) SMC22307 Feb 2015 #24

kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #25

I think President Obama is a very nice person. NaturalHigh Feb 2015 #26

Exactly. laundry_queen Feb 2015 #27

I agree fredamae Feb 2015 #29

Middle class decline looms over 30 years of neo-liberal free trade conventional wisdom hatrack Feb 2015 #31

Let the truth be told. lonestarnot Feb 2015 #34

Bush-Cheney INTENDED to destroy middleclass and GOP congress protected their plan blm Feb 2015 #35

Exactly. That Obama was able to keep our economy from collapsing completely is a major achievement stevenleser Feb 2015 #43

Pinning the destruction of middle class on Obama's policies is utter Horseshit and blm Feb 2015 #159

I'm sure they did. Nevertheless, the article is factual. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #50

Article completely blames Obama for GOP's tactic of intransigence blm Feb 2015 #63

Indeed. GOP deliberately sabotaged recovery/etc as a political tactic emulatorloo Feb 2015 #78

It clearly doesn't do any such thing. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #85

HS - I have very clear recall of the way it all has REALLY been going down. blm Feb 2015 #158

i'm not a performer, so i'm not accustomed to an audience at all. i don't know what you're reading, ND-Dem Feb 2015 #164

So why repeatedly argue and post repug talking points if you know . . . brush Feb 2015 #165

1. I didn't 'argue' anything. 2. I didn't post any repug talking points. I posted a news article ND-Dem Feb 2015 #166

So your posts are what . . . to just blame Obama . . . brush Feb 2015 #167

Please point out the specific Obama-blaming in the articlem where it lays all the failures of the ND-Dem Feb 2015 #168

Oh please! Start with the title. nt brush Feb 2015 #169

There's no agency stated or implied in the title. "Storm looms over kansas" doesn't mean ND-Dem Feb 2015 #171

Not nearly the same. Come on, stop playing dumb. brush Feb 2015 #172

i'm not playing dumb. there's no blame in the title, explicit or implicit. nor in the article, if ND-Dem Feb 2015 #174

Oh, Hannah... SidDithers Feb 2015 #37

ROFL alcibiades_mystery Feb 2015 #44

Better Believe It MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #54

Yup. zappaman Feb 2015 #61

At least it's not the WSWS. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #67

Good catch. I was wondering where this Hekate Feb 2015 #116

Translation: Hannah Bell doesn't want you to vote FSogol Feb 2015 #49

The 2nd iteration of Hannah Bell was banned as an homophobe... SidDithers Feb 2015 #60

Wonder what Amazon's Jeff Bezos thinks about that? FSogol Feb 2015 #62

Wasn't that based on RT article posted as an OP? One found easily by using the msanthrope Feb 2015 #68

Yup. That was the one... SidDithers Feb 2015 #70

Hmmm...22 recs. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #71

Reply #72 was quite good in that thread. FSogol Feb 2015 #93

Haha, that was me! tammywammy Feb 2015 #144

I had forgotten about that. This person should not be allowed back on DU. stevenleser Feb 2015 #160

I agree...nt SidDithers Feb 2015 #161

There are almost always more than one path to achieve a goal. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #51

The only reason the rich were paying more taxes is that the rest had less money. Percentage-wise, ND-Dem Feb 2015 #52

I know the economic mess started long before 2008, CrispyQ Feb 2015 #53

I agree. First order of business was bailing out the crooks who brought down the economy. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #55

Pemember, aspirant Feb 2015 #83

Hmm davidthegnome Feb 2015 #72

Thanks so much, and keep the faith! We have no babylonsister Feb 2015 #80

Hey David, nice to see you. CrispyQ Feb 2015 #87

"If it's going to be done, we have to do it." There I agree with you. And I have to say that ND-Dem Feb 2015 #97

kick woo me with science Feb 2015 #73

But Hillary!?!? Phlem Feb 2015 #77

The decline has been in motion for more than 30 years. cheapdate Feb 2015 #79

"Globalization" has been going on for centuries. It's not the reason for our current predicament, ND-Dem Feb 2015 #84

Wrong. moondust Feb 2015 #91

Jobs & raw materials have been being moved all over the planet for millenia. What do you think ND-Dem Feb 2015 #94

Not on a large scale. moondust Feb 2015 #103

on a very large scale. I think you don't know your history if you think imports weren't fueling ND-Dem Feb 2015 #105

... moondust Feb 2015 #109

I've read similar stuff. But there wasn't just *one* black death epidemic 1348-50; there were ND-Dem Feb 2015 #110

It has everything to with our current situation. cheapdate Feb 2015 #92

Massive amounts of capital have always moved across oceans, continents, and international ND-Dem Feb 2015 #96

Well, I don't think shipments of gold and silver from the New World cheapdate Feb 2015 #98

of course nothing is ever *exactly* the same and no one claimed it was. of course capital ND-Dem Feb 2015 #106

There's no comparison, Cheapdate and Moondust are correct on this. Your posts & positions appalachiablue Feb 2015 #108

It's *bubonic plague* or "black death." google "black plague" and see what you get. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #113

It believe that google uses Bu. Plague or Black Death. Eveyone knows it's the Bubonic Plague, but appalachiablue Feb 2015 #115

I got a bit confused there. I initially thought you were claiming black plague was the common ND-Dem Feb 2015 #117

It's ok, I don't think the Medieval Police or the Sforzas are watching. But the Borgias could appalachiablue Feb 2015 #127

but it wasn't the 'black plague'. it was the 'great plague'. (lol at the 'medieval police/sforza' ND-Dem Feb 2015 #129

It certainly was the Great Plague of London like the Great Fire of London, which provided appalachiablue Feb 2015 #137

This message was self-deleted by its author ND-Dem Feb 2015 #139

yes. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #140

Calling it moondust Feb 2015 #114

Not a problem, easy to do. And who the heck would think it wrong?! TC. appalachiablue Feb 2015 #121

Globalization has been going on for centuries The2ndWheel Feb 2015 #148

Foreign trade has been going on for centuries. moondust Feb 2015 #170

you don't remember when britain was the 'jobs and industry' leader before ww2? that was an even ND-Dem Feb 2015 #179

+100 appalachiablue Feb 2015 #107

Tim Geithner foamed the runway for the banksters starting in January 2009. Octafish Feb 2015 #82

My thought exactly...How did anyone think that having Geithner and Summers deutsey Feb 2015 #145

K&R! K&R! K&R! K&R! Phlem Feb 2015 #95

Let's not forget that this has been going on for 35 years n/t eridani Feb 2015 #99

what has? families in the middle of the income distribution have been earning less since 1979? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #100

Reaganomics laid the groundwork. There was a lot of flatlining before the decline n/t eridani Feb 2015 #101

did you look at the chart? specifically, at the yellow historical median family income line? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #102

If median income goes up by 13% from 1980 to now, but food and gas are double, minimum eridani Feb 2015 #111

That's all in 2012 dollars. Which takes care of your objections, more or less. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #112

No, it does not. Expenses have increased dramatically in REAL terms n/t eridani Feb 2015 #131

that's why they used 2012 dollars. those are 'real' terms; IOW, the dollars being compared ND-Dem Feb 2015 #132

You don't seem to be seeing the difference between income and expenditures eridani Feb 2015 #134

I believe I used MEDIAN income. Can you link me to what you're referring to? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #135

It's in your own graph reference. And if you really want to be honest, the eridani Feb 2015 #136

The title of the chart is: "Real Mean and Median Income, Families and Individuals, 1947-2012..." ND-Dem Feb 2015 #138

Obama is not a miracle worker YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #118

is there somewhere in the article anyone claimed obama caused anything? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #119

Obama's Presidency has been a net positive for the vast majority of Americans YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #122

is there somewhere the article claims obama caused anything? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #124

Don't be coy. YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #126

i'm not being coy. it's a serious question. the article doesn't say or imply that obama ND-Dem Feb 2015 #141

The headline sure does treestar Feb 2015 #147

No, it doesn't. The headline refers to the Obama presidency because wages & net worth are lower ND-Dem Feb 2015 #150

Ronald. Reagan. Good grief, the amnesia is incedible. Hekate Feb 2015 #123

not seeing the reagan reference. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #125

Uh huh. It's only been pointed out a dozen times already in this thread. nt Hekate Feb 2015 #128

i don;'t see that either. can you link me? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #130

Poor you just wants to pick a fight, and I don't want to play along. Read your own thread. nt Hekate Feb 2015 #133

i'm not trying to pick a fight. i don't see the reagan reference, in the article or in the thread. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #142

Racist Ronnie Reagan guillaumeb Feb 2015 #155

reagan left office 26 years ago. his presidency may have been the "beginning of the pushback", ND-Dem Feb 2015 #175

Reagan was a figurehead guillaumeb Feb 2015 #178

Ronald Reagan, his Supply Side Republicans, their Union busting, middle class gutting piracy is Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #146

And you think the middleclass would do better under Republicans Stargazer99 Feb 2015 #156

I do? I think that? Where did you get that information? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #157

I Believe In Hillary! I Believe She Can Finish The Job! Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #173

I just found out that I am being laid off. smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #177

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you find something relatively comparable. My best wishes to ND-Dem Feb 2015 #180

Thank you so much ND-Dem! smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #181