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Karmadillo

(9,253 posts)
Sun Feb 15, 2015, 01:35 AM Feb 2015

Dresden was a civilian town with no military significance. Why did we burn its people? [View all]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/11410633/Dresden-was-a-civilian-town-with-no-military-significance.-Why-did-we-burn-its-people.html

Dresden was a civilian town with no military significance. Why did we burn
its people?

If there was no good strategic reason for it, then not even the passage of time can make it
right


By Dominic Selwood
11:14AM GMT 13 Feb 2015

Today marks the 70th anniversary of “Operation Thunderclap”, one of the twentieth century’s most controversial military actions.

From 13 to 15 February 1945, British (and some American) heavy bombers dropped 2,400 tons of high explosives and 1,500 tons of incendiary bombs onto the ancient cathedral city of Dresden. In just a few hours, around 25,000 to 35,000 civilians were blown up or incinerated.

Victor Gregg, a British para captured at Arnhem, was a prisoner of war in Dresden that night who was ordered to help with the clear up. In a 2014 BBC interview he recalled the hunt for survivors after the apocalyptic firestorm. In one incident, it took his team seven hours to get into a 1,000-person air-raid shelter in the Altstadt. Once inside, they found no survivors or corpses: just a green-brown liquid with bones sticking out of it. The cowering people had all melted. In areas further from the town centre there were legions of adults shrivelled to three feet in length. Children under the age of three had simply been vaporised.

<edit>

Supporters of Britain’s “area bombing” (targeting civilians instead of military or industrial sites)
maintain that it was a vital part of the war. Churchill wrote that he wanted “absolutely devastating, exterminating attacks by very heavy bombers from this country upon the Nazi homeland”. In another letter he called it “terror bombing”. His aim was to demoralise the Germans to catalyse regime change. Research suggests that the soaring homelessness levels and family break ups did indeed depress civilian morale, but there is no evidence it helped anyone prise Hitler’s cold hand off the wheel.

Others maintain that it was ghastly, but Hitler started it so needed to be answered in a language he understood. Unfortunately, records show that the first intentional “area bombing” of civilians in the Second World War took place at Monchengladbach on 11 May 1940 at Churchill’s orders (the day after he dramatically became prime minister), and four months before the Luftwaffe began its Blitz of British cities.

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I studied this a little some years ago MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #1
Köln was similarly flattened NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #3
Ever heard of Carthage? rjsquirrel Feb 2015 #11
Also rjsquirrel Feb 2015 #12
Dresden had over 100 factories jmowreader Feb 2015 #13
Shhhhh---don't mention inconvenient facts. MADem Feb 2015 #52
...^ that 840high Feb 2015 #68
Hitler was not democratically chosen tobe leader CreekDog Feb 2015 #126
No, he just showed up out of the blue, and everyone HATED him...not. MADem Feb 2015 #128
You either own your wrong comment or you disown it CreekDog Feb 2015 #138
Hey, you have a great day, now!!!! MADem Feb 2015 #139
I didn't put words in your mouth and you repaid that by putting words in mine CreekDog Feb 2015 #140
Hey, you have a great day, now!!! nt MADem Feb 2015 #141
A reason we flourished then was that WWII or "the peace" eliminated a lot of our competiton. merrily Feb 2015 #63
Why weren't they bombed then? former9thward Feb 2015 #90
The rail yards were more important to bomb, and they were the center of our attacks jmowreader Feb 2015 #92
The factories were in the suburbs - the bombers took out the city center. hedgehog Feb 2015 #135
That's my understanding too Sanity Claws Feb 2015 #15
Zeiss had most of it's manufacturing there Major Nikon Feb 2015 #16
Yet they were not targeted. former9thward Feb 2015 #91
Jena, where one of the Zeiss factories was built was bombed several times Major Nikon Feb 2015 #98
Funny how people try to justify what is now considered war crirmes. former9thward Feb 2015 #103
Even funnier how rjsquirrel Feb 2015 #104
Funny how people can't follow online conversations Major Nikon Feb 2015 #105
The typo police always on guard! former9thward Feb 2015 #115
Bobbing And Weaving! ProfessorGAC Feb 2015 #122
Ever heard of the 20-million Chinese killed during the Japanese occupation, or the 15 million leveymg Feb 2015 #59
Napalm was used a fair amount in WWII. During the American Civil war we came up with the idea of braddy Feb 2015 #4
Sherman's march to the sea MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #5
Oh, it didn't originate with us. aquart Feb 2015 #120
You might want to read C.P. Snow who explained how strategic bombing probably prolonged the war leveymg Feb 2015 #40
I love C.P. Snow MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #78
Extremely interesting. Thank you for posting this. Karmadillo Feb 2015 #89
In part, it was to serve as a warning to Stalin of the capabilities of Western air power. . . Journeyman Feb 2015 #2
same reason nuclear devices were dropped guillaumeb Feb 2015 #29
Not to mention, America's willingness to use them. leveymg Feb 2015 #54
whatever weapons are needed by the Empire guillaumeb Feb 2015 #60
Extinction is Us leveymg Feb 2015 #67
Another reason, and it kind of sucks... Wounded Bear Feb 2015 #6
interestingly the same process happened in the Korean War: they started to run out MisterP Feb 2015 #81
At that point in the war... Cali_Democrat Feb 2015 #7
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #8
Slaughterhouse Five Lint Head Feb 2015 #9
I read it in high school burrowowl Feb 2015 #99
My dad had a book titled The Complete History of a WW ll. He must have acquired it in the late 40's or the early 50's mobeau69 Feb 2024 #143
Don't look for logic in war. McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #10
Seriously? treestar Feb 2015 #14
Apparently, we've cycled through the other TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #21
seriously. Vietnam, Iraq, etc are there treestar Feb 2015 #25
Not everything posted is an attack against the US, at least to the non-paranoid DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #26
you have to have USDS treestar Feb 2015 #28
The article indicates it was mostly British bombers involved CJCRANE Feb 2015 #32
Wow, even more absurd a discussion then treestar Feb 2015 #34
It was controversial at the time and there was disagreement about its effectiveness: CJCRANE Feb 2015 #39
Discussing that or anything at that time made some sense treestar Feb 2015 #42
Bombers involved gladium et scutum Feb 2015 #36
Thanks. See my post #39 about the origin of the policy and discussion of its effectiveness. nt CJCRANE Feb 2015 #41
I'd bet good money that I know a great deal more about that war than you do. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #37
That has to win the internet for absurdity today treestar Feb 2015 #43
You're trying misdirection. You lost. Enjoy your Sunday. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #44
If a declaration of "you lost" is all we need treestar Feb 2015 #48
If you need it spelled out... DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #53
You you you treestar Feb 2015 #62
The one we're not supposed to be discussing, because treestar said so? DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #65
It's Obama's fault!!! MADem Feb 2015 #58
thanks Obama! treestar Feb 2015 #66
You could, of course, notice that it's a British article muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #109
Might want to deep digger into our actions prior to WWII Lurks Often Feb 2015 #117
This is how we get away with murder whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #35
Like the Germans did, you mean? treestar Feb 2015 #46
Having difficultly parsing your post whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #55
No, I have a very cohesive thought treestar Feb 2015 #61
Glad to know whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #71
These deaths were right and good. So you have to stop talking about them now. nt DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #75
Did you miss the part about civilian casualties being an hedgehog Feb 2015 #136
You're supposed to be angry.. Matrosov Feb 2015 #50
There must be a point where even terrorism is called for treestar Feb 2015 #56
"There must be a point where even terrorism is called for" So say terrorists everywhere. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #69
Yeah...like these terrorists! MADem Feb 2015 #74
thanks for making my point for me. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #77
Well, if I had any point to make, I suppose it would be that Dresden did have military MADem Feb 2015 #82
"There must be a point where even terrorism is called for" Rex Feb 2015 #97
First they came for the Communists JonLP24 Feb 2015 #123
First you eliminate the intellectuals and free thinkers Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #124
Yes, angry--isn't this AWFUL???? MADem Feb 2015 #70
I don't think anyone on this thread has said the bombing of London was an hedgehog Feb 2015 #137
When people suggest that the bombing of Dresden was unprovoked, had no military MADem Feb 2015 #142
Well you are lol...the rest of DU are supposed to talk about it and maybe have a discussion. Rex Feb 2015 #96
Um, war. Telcontar Feb 2015 #17
Went to Dresden back in 2004 GreatGazoo Feb 2015 #18
Not Quite... catnhatnh Feb 2015 #22
To stop the war Recursion Feb 2015 #19
So philosophical whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #31
There is a point where people are responsible for what their country does treestar Feb 2015 #38
Well whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #45
So you're not OK with that treestar Feb 2015 #47
And if it was your town whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #49
So you're criticizing Churchill for the decision? treestar Feb 2015 #51
Confused, what have you supported for the last ten to fifteen years? whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #57
You know what I'm talking about treestar Feb 2015 #64
You supported Bush's illegal wars? whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #72
I have to ask, are you being deliberately obtuse or genuinely mistaken Telcontar Feb 2015 #106
Huh? Recursion Feb 2015 #84
War is hell ... reasons for this rosesaylavee Feb 2015 #20
One of the premises of strategic bombing was break the will of the citizenry, Lurks Often Feb 2015 #23
I learned about that via fiction treestar Feb 2015 #27
Oh, are we asking why persons of non-military significance were burned? Please, carry on. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2015 #24
No, it wasn't tabasco Feb 2015 #30
Dresden was bombed because most people are willing to commit mass murder. Vattel Feb 2015 #33
As the granddaughter of a Nazi soldier, KitSileya Feb 2015 #73
26 German and 1 Polish assination attempts on Hitler over 10 years - this was a Resistance Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #86
WWII "Collateral damage" had a much broader interpretation Zambero Feb 2015 #76
Also "cannon fodder" was considered part and parcel of war. MADem Feb 2015 #79
I doubt much of that JonLP24 Feb 2015 #125
I am getting the sense you aren't taking the point I'm making. MADem Feb 2015 #129
This message was self-deleted by its author MADem Feb 2015 #129
This message was self-deleted by its author MADem Feb 2015 #129
This message was self-deleted by its author MADem Feb 2015 #129
This message was self-deleted by its author MADem Feb 2015 #129
Sorry, everyone--for some strange reason, my post repeated itself with the same post number MADem Feb 2015 #129
With 70 years passing, there are questions that can be asked Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #83
Bridges, rail hubs, and road junctions Telcontar Feb 2015 #107
I used to say that too, with deep conviction. Then I learned to speak French and hear their side Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #113
Those that should answer that are long gone PumpkinAle Feb 2015 #80
Because it was war, and that didn't stop Germany from attacking civilian still_one Feb 2015 #85
Google "Coventry." cwydro Feb 2015 #87
Seriously? Why did we bomb German cities? cheapdate Feb 2015 #88
US and Britain wanted to slow the Soviet advance on Berlin. Special Prosciuto Feb 2015 #93
No cause justifies the deaths of innocent people. Albert Camus Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #94
Albert Camus is an idiot who wasnt responsible for the survival Telcontar Feb 2015 #108
Camus in French Resistance Intel unit "Combat" from 1941, & published a clandestine journal Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #114
No evidence he participated in any active resistance Telcontar Feb 2015 #116
Gathering Intel & disfusing it to Resistance & Allies made him an enemy combattant of Nazis Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #118
Why did we kill a million Iraqis in Iraq? Rex Feb 2015 #95
It is the same tactic General Sherman used in his burning of the South tblue37 Feb 2015 #100
Why did the Germans bomb London? n/t oneshooter Feb 2015 #101
In Memoriam Dresden - 1945 by Daniel Bukvich TexasTowelie Feb 2015 #102
To allow hind-sighters to cluck their tongues righteously 70 years after the fact. Orrex Feb 2015 #110
Why did Fighters Strafe fleeing civilians? One_Life_To_Give Feb 2015 #111
Bro we in the West are the biggest LIARs in history malaise Feb 2015 #112
Thank you for assuring me they suffered. aquart Feb 2015 #119
I don't know the details of this -- but similar examples are the problem with war JonLP24 Feb 2015 #121
Henry V Act 3 Nevernose Feb 2015 #127
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