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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
48. ''I will never send draftees over there to fight.''
Sun Feb 15, 2015, 03:17 PM
Feb 2015
THE SECOND BIGGEST LIE

by Michael Morrissey

The biggest lie of our time, after the Warren Report, is the notion that Johnson merely continued or expanded Kennedy's policy in Vietnam after the assassination.

1. JFK's policy

In late 1962, Kennedy was still fully committed to supporting the Diem regime, though he had some doubts even then. When Senator Mike Mansfield advised withdrawal at that early date:

The President was too disturbed by the Senator's unexpected argument to reply to it. He said to me later when we talked about the discussion, "I got angry with Mike for disagreeing with our policy so completely, and I got angry with myself because I found myself agreeing with him (Kenneth O'Donnell and Dave Powers, Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye, Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1970, p. 15).


By the spring of 1963, Kennedy had reversed course completely and agreed with Mansfield:

"The President told Mansfield that he had been having serious second thoughts about Mansfield's argument and that he now agreed with the Senator's thinking on the need for a complete military withdrawal from Vietnam.

'But I can't do it until 1965--after I'm reelected,' Kennedy told Mansfield....

After Mansfield left the office, the President said to me, 'In 1965 I'll become one of the most unpopular Presidents in history. I'll be damned everywhere as a Communist appeaser. But I don't care. If I tried to pull out completely now from Vietnam, we would have another Joe McCarthy red scare on our hands, but I can do it after I'm reelected. So we had better make damned sure that I am reelected' (O'Donnell, p. 16)."


Sometime after that Kennedy told O'Donnell again that

"...he had made up his mind that after his reelection he would take the risk of unpopularity and make a complete withdrawal of American military forces from Vietnam. He had decided that our military involvement in Vietnam's civil war would only grow steadily bigger and more costly without making a dent in the larger political problem of Communist expansion in Southeast Asia" (p. 13).


Just before he was killed he repeated this commitment:

"'They keep telling me to send combat units over there,' the President said to us one day in October [1963]. 'That means sending draftees, along with volunteer regular Army advisers, into Vietnam. I'll never send draftees over there to fight'." (O'Donnell, p. 383).


Kennedy's public statements and actions were consistent with his private conversations, though more cautiously expressed in order to appease the military and right-wing forces that were clamoring for more, not less, involvement in Vietnam, and with whom he did not want to risk an open confrontation one year before the election. As early as May 22, 1963, he said at a press conference:

"...we are hopeful that the situation in South Vietnam would permit some withdrawal in any case by the end of the year, but we can't possibly make that judgement at the present time" (Harold W. Chase and Allen H. Lerman, eds., Kennedy and the Press: The News Conferences, New York: Thomas Y. Crowell, 1965, p. 447).


Then came the statement on October 2:

"President Kennedy asked McNamara to announce to the press after the meeting the immediate withdrawal of one thousand soldiers and to say that we would probably withdraw all American forces from Vietnam by the end of 1965. When McNamara was leaving the meeting to talk to the White House reporters, the President called to him, "And tell them that means all of the helicopter pilots, too" (O'Donnell, p. 17).


This decision was not popular with the military, the Cabinet, the vice-president, or the CIA, who continued to support Diem, the dictator the US had installed in South Vietnam in 1955. Hence the circumspect wording of the statement on Oct. 2, which was nevertheless announced as a "statement of United States policy":

Secretary McNamara and General Taylor reported their judgement that the major part of the U.S. military task can be completed by the end of 1965, although there may be a continuing requirement for a limited number of U.S. training personnel. They reported that by the end of this year, the U.S. program for training Vietnamese should have progressed to the point where 1,000 U.S.
military personnel assigned to South Viet-Nam can be withdrawn (Documents on American Foreign Relations 1963, Council on Foreign Relations, New York: Harper & Row, 1964, p. 296).

CONTINUED...

http://govt.eserver.org/gulf-war/jfk-lbj-and-vietnam.txt

Oliver Stone may have saved democracy with a work of art.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

JFK made it abundantly clear to many people hifiguy Feb 2015 #1
John F. Kennedy's Vision of Peace Octafish Feb 2015 #25
The CIA Should Be Disbanded. Kennedy got it right. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #75
Frank Church warned us in 1975 about the secret government and secret power. Octafish Feb 2015 #81
Just think, if this policy had prevailed, I would have missed jaysunb Feb 2015 #2
How many trips did you make a broad? HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #7
LOL ! jaysunb Feb 2015 #10
Yes killing Kommunists for Freedom warrant46 Feb 2015 #22
I'm still conflicted about LBJ jaysunb Feb 2015 #34
Halliburton Deals Recall Vietnam-Era Controversy Octafish Feb 2015 #39
IIRC the second volume of Robert Caro's LBJ biography hifiguy Feb 2015 #53
They are bad, real bad, JonLP24 Feb 2015 #80
Look at foreign policy & domestic spying JonLP24 Feb 2015 #78
Same here brother, same here. GGJohn Feb 2015 #37
No he didn't or he wouldn't have escalated the war like he did during his presidency. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #3
Are you questioning the authenticity of NSAM 263? RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #5
Outstanding post, Rufus! hifiguy Feb 2015 #6
Thanks! And to answer your question: Yes, I have! RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #8
Outstanding book. H2O Man Feb 2015 #17
Yikes! Didn't even know about the Gandhi book RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #24
It didn't get H2O Man Feb 2015 #32
I'm looking forward to reading it. RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #35
I am not questioning Kennedy's words. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #9
I guess you do not know what back-channels means. Rex Feb 2015 #29
I don't doubt Kennedy tried to find a diplomatic end. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #31
Oh I do completely, by his second term. Rex Feb 2015 #33
Well it's not like Vietnam turned nuclear anyway. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #40
It easily could have, if John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles had their way. Octafish Feb 2015 #50
Many of those who disagree with you (and me) begin their posts with the words "I believe." That KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #68
+1 n/t jaysunb Feb 2015 #70
You're trying to talk facts into this debate YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #63
''This is a sacred cow here. An article of faith among Camelot believers.'' Octafish Feb 2015 #84
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Feb 2015 #16
I think his decision making in 1963 warrants at least a debate on the matter. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #27
Interesting. H2O Man Feb 2015 #42
Remarks of Senator John F. Kennedy on Indochina before the Senate, Washington, D.C., April 6, 1954 Octafish Feb 2015 #44
Excellent ! n/t jaysunb Feb 2015 #72
JFK toured Vietnam in 1951... Octafish Feb 2015 #73
this is one of the reasons heaven05 Feb 2015 #4
Bingo we have a winner! workinclasszero Feb 2015 #19
No, he really didn't Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #11
JFK’s Embrace of Third World Nationalists Octafish Feb 2015 #46
The CIA didn't much care for Kennedy. blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #12
Just the bad apples who contracted the Mafia to murder heads of state. Octafish Feb 2015 #38
The George Bush Center for Intelligence is the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #13
Pic URL: blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #14
Meanwhile, in regards to Cuba.... YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #15
Just before his assassination, President Kennedy ordered secret peace talks with Castro Octafish Feb 2015 #49
It can be safely said Castro and Khrushchev were hifiguy Feb 2015 #54
Which is so weird how the evidentiary trail led right to them. Octafish Feb 2015 #55
According to Douglass there were at least two hifiguy Feb 2015 #56
"This is a story that I don't see mentioned very often" YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #61
So when you can't find anything to support your POV, resort to condescension, YoungDemCA. Octafish Feb 2015 #67
This a a good discussion & debate - FairWinds Feb 2015 #18
George H.W. Bush was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. Octafish Feb 2015 #69
Not to mention JFK was also going to obliterate the CIA 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #20
JFK famously said after the Bay of Pigs hifiguy Feb 2015 #28
Back channel negotiations with Khrushchev. roamer65 Feb 2015 #21
Secret Government is why the pendulum won't swing back. Octafish Feb 2015 #52
All due respect, but the verdict of professional historians who have examined the KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #23
JFK would have pulled the plug on it. roamer65 Feb 2015 #58
John M. Newman, in ''JFK and Vietnam'' documented the sordid history. Octafish Feb 2015 #71
Since your extract mentions Kaiser's "American Tragedy" in its final paragraph, it is KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #76
Not a thesis. It's what the documentary record shows. Octafish Feb 2015 #82
We are now come full circle. If JFK was being fed info that led hiim to believe the KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #85
So Oliver Stone was right. That's what he said after his movie JFK came out. nt Damansarajaya Feb 2015 #26
lol. nt BootinUp Feb 2015 #47
''I will never send draftees over there to fight.'' Octafish Feb 2015 #48
He wanted a complete withdraw, but the MICIA said no way. Rex Feb 2015 #30
JFK would never fall for phony intel like Gulf of Tonkin. Octafish Feb 2015 #74
I have tried to get folks to view "Evidence of Revision" 1-6 on YouTube. kelliekat44 Feb 2015 #36
Thank you, kelliekat44! Octafish Feb 2015 #83
That's probably why the Fascists killed him. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #41
Agreed, Almost Certainly colsohlibgal Feb 2015 #43
The evidence that Oswald was "just a patsy" is undeniable. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #51
I remember seeing the clip where Oswald makes the "patsy" statement. hifiguy Feb 2015 #57
Better yet, look up the video of Jack Ruby saying "If Adlai Stevenson had been VP..." N/t roamer65 Feb 2015 #59
I deny it. As does Oswald's brother, for that matter. YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #62
K&R woo me with science Feb 2015 #45
Peter Dale Scott did the yeoman's work on JFK and Vietnam issue. Octafish Feb 2015 #86
November 22, 1963 was a coup d'état masked by an assassination...plain and simple. roamer65 Feb 2015 #60
JFK knew what he was getting into in Dallas. He had survived an attempt in Chicago... Octafish Feb 2015 #89
I have always suspected JFK was killed for his opposition to that war. Special Prosciuto Feb 2015 #64
Kennedy had too much potential to help the common people. There is even a rumor that he was dissentient Feb 2015 #65
Flying Saucer bullshit began in 1947, with the hallucinating "pilot" Kenneth Arnold Special Prosciuto Feb 2015 #66
He also shot down Operation Northwoods JonLP24 Feb 2015 #77
John Aschcroft stopped flying commercial airliners in July 2001 based on a 'threat assessment.' Octafish Feb 2015 #87
I was actually looking up black market nuclear history as well as overall nuclear history JonLP24 Feb 2015 #90
We really don't know what JFK would've done with Vietnam. He didn't want to make a decision until craigmatic Feb 2015 #79
At this point madville Feb 2015 #88
Interesting thread. K&R nt Electric Monk Feb 2015 #91
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