General Discussion

CTyankee

(68,217 posts)

62. I was a skeptic myself but few of us had proof to the contrary.

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 05:26 PM

Feb 2015

I may be wrong...I was skeptical but had no back up evidence. But my memory is poor so help me out here. The argument I remember having was on the wisdom of further invasion and occupation by the West and I recall ME experts talking about how this would be seen as further evidence of western imperialism in order to get hold of Iraq's oil. I subscribed to this viewpoint but I don't remember being able to rebut firmly and conclusively that Saddam had no hand in 9/11.

Then IIRC, stuff began to surface that disproved Bush and Powell and from then on it was a downhill slide on that theory. I remember Richard Clarke and his book "Against All Enemies" and admiring Clarke for his impassioned stand.

But right after 9/11 there wasn't much public knowledge about some guy named Bin Laden.

I supported Edwards, too, and believed him when he lied about his affair with Rielle Hunter and fathering her baby. I swore after that not to put too much trust in any politician. It was a hard lesson for me to learn.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

156 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Question: What State Did Sen. Hillary Clinton Represent in 2002? [View all] McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 OP

Kick & highly recommended. William769 Feb 2015 #1

Good to see a K&R as the first response. Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #102

No one was manning the war room. William769 Feb 2015 #106

Seriously. Five full minutes passed, and you were still first in line. Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #108

Chuck Schumer isn't running for President; Hillary is. closeupready Feb 2015 #2

And if Schumer DID run for President, I would hold that vote against him. Jim Lane Feb 2015 #99

Idealism in retrospect. Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #103

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 Cali_Democrat Feb 2015 #3

What he said. n/t Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #7

+1,000 Scuba Feb 2015 #9

This should be the largest subthread in the entire thread. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #64

I agree 100%. nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #71

+1 Marr Feb 2015 #148

! City Lights Feb 2015 #149

So true. Some can get away with everything, yeoman6987 Feb 2015 #4

They aren't the inevitable Democratic candidate for POTUS in 2016? Fumesucker Feb 2015 #20

"Paranoia strikes deep...." Jim Lane Feb 2015 #100

There you go with assume again yeoman6987 Feb 2015 #112

If my assumption was false, pray enlighten me. Jim Lane Feb 2015 #118

What is the purpose/duty of a representative in a representative democracy? Fumesucker Feb 2015 #5

Defending the Iraq vote tracks29 Feb 2015 #6

George Will said, vssmith Feb 2015 #8

"Mission creep in Afghanistan"? Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #110

I fully realize who GW is and what he believes vssmith Feb 2015 #143

So... you were going with the blind pig/truffle metaphor? Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #147

I have an answer to your question Martin Eden Feb 2015 #10

Great post Autumn Feb 2015 #12

you are applauding someone who says they won't vote for certain Democrats. KittyWampus Feb 2015 #18

"in a Democratic primary" those are the key words. I didn't vote for Obama in the 2008 primary. Autumn Feb 2015 #21

Can I ask what's changed your mind in 6(ish) years? Agschmid Feb 2015 #104

I like Hillary, she's a lovely woman. I was able to talk to her on a couple of occasions on health Autumn Feb 2015 #136

Thanks reasonable list and it seems you feel passionately about it. Agschmid Feb 2015 #142

... in the Democratic primary Martin Eden Feb 2015 #63

But we were lied to about Saddam Hussein being behind the 9/11 attack. All of us. CTyankee Feb 2015 #44

many people knew that in real time hfojvt Feb 2015 #54

I was a skeptic myself but few of us had proof to the contrary. CTyankee Feb 2015 #62

Were you at DU in 2002? Martin Eden Feb 2015 #65

No, I didn't find out about DU until October of 2004. CTyankee Feb 2015 #67

There was no evidence that Saddam had anything to do with it Martin Eden Feb 2015 #73

thanks for the back story. always good to know. CTyankee Feb 2015 #80

The Past is Prologue Martin Eden Feb 2015 #122

Now what is to see her on Libya, S. America, Syria, and the Ukraine. TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #131

+100 ND-Dem Feb 2015 #107

It is not negative evidence Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. it was the lack of positive evidence on point Feb 2015 #128

"Bush had to launch the war before the UN basically said Bush assertions were a lie." Martin Eden Feb 2015 #139

Here is a quick reminder of the votes for IWR... Agschmid Feb 2015 #109

And what about the House? nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #114

That reminder is incomplete Martin Eden Feb 2015 #123

Want to take a trip back in time? Agschmid Feb 2015 #132

c) Martin Eden Feb 2015 #138

Who lied to us? Bush? Who believed Bush? Colin Powell knew the truth but was a coward rhett o rick Feb 2015 #68

I sincerely doubt Hillary was fooled. Martin Eden Feb 2015 #75

The point is that smart people didn't trust Bush/Cheney. Smart people recognized rhett o rick Feb 2015 #115

Can't say I disagree fredamae Feb 2015 #59

Are you really going to try and run that stinking pile past us? 99Forever Feb 2015 #11

So you don't understand why many liberals/progressives are upset about her Iraq war vote? Seriously? dissentient Feb 2015 #13

I have yet to hear any attempt at justifying HRC's IWar vote. nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #29

See post #44 n/t Martin Eden Feb 2015 #66

Oh Dog, I hope you are being factious. Tell me you are. nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #70

The poster tried to justify the vote Martin Eden Feb 2015 #74

All those who voted for the IWR and supported Bush's wars have blood on their hands. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #14

Well said. nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #27

So, Hillary gets a pass? Is that what you are saying? Broward Feb 2015 #15

Interesting the people who believe the IWR vote is a *real* political liability wyldwolf Feb 2015 #16

This has nothing to do with "political liability", this has to do with rhett o rick Feb 2015 #26

It has everything to do with political liability wyldwolf Feb 2015 #82

I sure wish Iraq hadn't taken down the World Trade Center towers. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #17

And they voted yes on the notion it would only take 6months. JaneyVee Feb 2015 #19

A clear indication of stupidity Fumesucker Feb 2015 #23

I very much doubt anyone who voted bought the six months thing, or the hang flowers around the necks merrily Feb 2015 #58

Let's guess your point. The Democrats betrayed their country because they thought rhett o rick Feb 2015 #25

ffs, no one with two brain cells believed six months or the flowers around the necks of our troops merrily Feb 2015 #37

Actually, they voted "Yes" because they wanted Bush to have credibility.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2015 #33

Your insipid cheerleading just turned offensive. AtomicKitten Feb 2015 #22

HRC was more than willing to support family friend George Bush and his illegal war. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #28

We will never forget. AtomicKitten Feb 2015 #49

We will never forget, abso-fracking-lutely. nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #60

"Hey look over there, there are other people that betrayed their constituents, party rhett o rick Feb 2015 #24

Other people who don't seem to be running for President to boot. Who didn't all advocate for the merrily Feb 2015 #32

sorry, but.....fail. nt navarth Feb 2015 #30

Republicans framed that vote as either a "Yes" or you were weak.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2015 #31

If 25 people are wrong that doesn't make it better than only 20 being right. hobbit709 Feb 2015 #34

Punjab? Ino Feb 2015 #35

How many New Yorkers -were-suffering PTSD from Sept 11th? HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #36

You don't commit blood and treasure because your constituents might feel safer if you do. merrily Feb 2015 #39

Re-read what you wrote, I did. I think nations often do commit blood and treasure for security HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #45

I was trying to support your view, not trying to undermine it. merrily Feb 2015 #46

Ok. You just gave me a chance to expand HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #47

Cool. It was a good post. merrily Feb 2015 #48

I suffered from 9/11 (though not PTSD). Jim Lane Feb 2015 #98

Are you honestly calling yourself a victim of 9/11 because you got laid off? Capt. Obvious Feb 2015 #127

To me, losing my job was worse than having to take off my shoes at the airport. Jim Lane Feb 2015 #135

Hey, I have an idea. Let's just hand over the White House to someone who didn't vote for libdem4life Feb 2015 #38

At no point has it ever been "Hillary or nobody". Half-Century Man Feb 2015 #57

Uh, that's what it seems to be as we write here and what the hubub is all about. No one else cares libdem4life Feb 2015 #79

And that's the way it is, reporting live from planet Earth. cheapdate Feb 2015 #151

Cute. So point out the mistakes. There is an old saying libdem4life Feb 2015 #154

I was affirming the undeniable good sense and logic of what you said. cheapdate Feb 2015 #155

So sorry...so used to the sarcasm and snark here...thanks for clearing it up. libdem4life Feb 2015 #156

Shameful OP. merrily Feb 2015 #40

She stil voted for it. Fearless Feb 2015 #41

I gave this a rec so I could go back and unrec it. nt benz380 Feb 2015 #42

K and effing R Hekate Feb 2015 #43

And ten years later, after all the mistakes and bloodshed, she pushes for Afghanistan "surge", and whereisjustice Feb 2015 #50

To me, her vote on the Iraqi war is just one disconcerting event among many. Half-Century Man Feb 2015 #51

It was not just a vote either. She urged her fellow Senators to vote for the invasion. merrily Feb 2015 #52

Before I can feel justified in supporting her Half-Century Man Feb 2015 #55

I don't know what questions you have about it. She advocated for the Iraq Invasion and did so merrily Feb 2015 #56

I want to hear from her the actual motivations behind mer decision. Half-Century Man Feb 2015 #61

Fair enough. She has spoken about some of those things, esp. why she did not read the NIE. merrily Feb 2015 #72

It means we can COUNT ON HER! ....To do the politically expedient thing, if not the right one. Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #85

Votes (theirs) Matter and Most fredamae Feb 2015 #53

I don'want to demonize Hillary Clinton olddots Feb 2015 #69

I am a NYer and I support her, but I did protest Hillary's and Chuck's office for their votes. hrmjustin Feb 2015 #76

We're trying to purdy up the Iraq War vote now? Iggo Feb 2015 #77

Can't let anything get in the way of the inevitability train! Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #90

I do remember. Iggo Feb 2015 #93

I am actually in agreement with you. Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #95

Not enough lipstick in the WORLD woo me with science Feb 2015 #97

Hillary is being held responsible for the Iraq war because Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #78

Over half the Democratic members of Congress voted against the Iraq War Fumesucker Feb 2015 #91

A majority of Democratic Senators voted for the war. Hillary was a junior member of the Senate. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #92

What influence she had Hillary used the other way Fumesucker Feb 2015 #94

If you want to blame a Democrat, blam Tom Dashel to Democrat in the Senate Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #96

I'll focus on Daschle when he indicates he may be running for POTUS Fumesucker Feb 2015 #119

She fucked up tabasco Feb 2015 #81

The idea that attacking Iraq because of 9-11 grief is JUSTIFIED Maedhros Feb 2015 #83

So Saddam Hussein attacked us on 9-11? Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #84

1 MILLION dead Iraqis Ramses Feb 2015 #86

One of the most important enablers of a war of aggression. JackRiddler Feb 2015 #87

I don't hate Hillary anymore for her vote but I lived in New York at the time and called Cha Feb 2015 #88

You realize that Bush and Cheney could use that exact same rationale, right? Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #89

+1! Excellent, excellent post. Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #101

Reminder: IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK THE US ON 9/11 DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #125

Normally, the spineless assholes on this site would alert an attack like yours. Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #130

I'm not alerting you, you're not alerting me. Maybe someone will get one or the other of us. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #134

So which are you? Fumesucker Feb 2015 #141

I'm glad no one deleted this disgusting post of yours. Marr Feb 2015 #150

I'm a Hillary fan? Really? Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #153

Because they are ignorant of what Hillary positions even are still_one Feb 2015 #105

Senator Clinton was a good representative for NY... Historic NY Feb 2015 #111

Your OP contains a major error of fact, please correct it MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #113

That she was joined by others in a cowardly response to war hysteria is supposed to-- eridani Feb 2015 #116

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #117

K & R juajen Feb 2015 #120

So we're defending her support of the war machine now? I thought we were past this. craigmatic Feb 2015 #121

No, just a few here are doing that. Most of us still use critical thinking skills and common sense. Rex Feb 2015 #145

Kissinger/Summers in 2016. eom JEB Feb 2015 #124

This is quite possibly the lamest attempt at Clinton apologia I've seen on this site Capt. Obvious Feb 2015 #126

K&R madokie Feb 2015 #129

Give us Clinton out of the primaries... NCTraveler Feb 2015 #133

Sole mastermind? No. That might demonstrate leadership. Orsino Feb 2015 #137

Who has accused her of being the mastermind, sole or otherwise? Phony, absurd, lame excuses TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #140

Her opening statements about the IWR Rex Feb 2015 #144

Hillarys support for Iraq war would not prevent me from voting for her. hollowdweller Feb 2015 #146

Am I correct that EVERYONE holding this vote against Clinton voted against Kerry in 2004? brooklynite Feb 2015 #152