General Discussion

petronius

(26,696 posts)

42. I see no particular reason to conclude that the report and the investigation into

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 08:38 PM

Feb 2015

this particular team was motivated by racism. And conversely, it seems quite reasonable that any winning team would be subject to scrutiny. When the investigation showed what it did, I think the league took the appropriate action. So no: absent evidence I do not believe that the report, investigation, and punishment were motivated by racism.

However, that does not imply that these kids were guilty of anything, nor that they failed to represent their city well. Everything I've seen suggests they were excellent ambassadors for Chicago. And I don't think their parents did anything wrong; certainly, giving one's kid the best possible opportunities is a standard parental motivation.

Further, I'm unsurprised that bigots and racist have come out of the virtual woodwork to spew bile about this story. But the behavior of these bottom-feeders does not retroactively affect the motivations and processes of the investigation itself.

It seems to me that a lot of these points get conflated in stories like this. However, it's logical, reasonable, and not contradictory to believe that 1) the investigation and sanction wasn't motivated by racism (absent evidence to the contrary), 2) the kids are innocent victims and all-around good eggs, and 3) racism is still a major thread in our society...

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dont think the jackie robinson flap has anything to do w racism? [View all] mopinko Feb 2015 OP

From what's been reported locally, the guy who reported them is married to an African American lady, MohRokTah Feb 2015 #1

So, some of his best friends are.... NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #2

It's tough to call racism when his four kids are black. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #4

how many black kids are on his team? mopinko Feb 2015 #13

my uncle told me this story about when he was in the Army CatWoman Feb 2015 #24

yeah. wanting a black women in your bed mopinko Feb 2015 #31

This is confirmed on my FB page frequently loyalsister Feb 2015 #94

i really hope he is not abusing his wife and kids hopemountain Feb 2015 #177

that's what i think also. mopinko Feb 2015 #16

Sorry, but fuck that notion SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #32

what if they believed the coaches that it was all cool? mopinko Feb 2015 #75

It doesn't matter what the reason was for the cheating SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #78

when I played, there was no choice hfojvt Feb 2015 #197

The thing about this is that they needed to scrutinize all the teams . . . brush Feb 2015 #8

unless they check out the other teams, i will continue to believe it is bias. mopinko Feb 2015 #12

Have allegations of cheating been made against the other teams? SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #33

actually, yes. mopinko Feb 2015 #127

When was the formal complaint filed against them? SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #128

and where are your links hopemountain Feb 2015 #193

Not my judgements, Little League's SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #199

laugh all you want. it is not hilarious. nt hopemountain Feb 2015 #200

It's not hilarious for the kids SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #201

so, what if a team hopemountain Feb 2015 #203

Make all of the players on this team white SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #206

If I hand a hmmmmer, I'd hmmmmer in the morning, tblue37 Feb 2015 #154

link to some confirmation? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #158

Do you have a link to where the complaining team SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #222

Here's some info for you: ND-Dem Feb 2015 #221

A lopsided score like that is unsportsmanlike alarimer Feb 2015 #161

oh bullshit. mopinko Feb 2015 #162

Isn't it up to the umpires to invoke the mercy rule . . . brush Feb 2015 #163

iirc, it went 2 innings. mopinko Feb 2015 #171

I agree. The other team manager was the sore loser . . . brush Feb 2015 #180

if all of the teams were equally "scrutinized" then hopemountain Feb 2015 #178

Bingo! I think you're on to something. nt brush Feb 2015 #179

Because according to the falsified boundary map submitted to LL International SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #191

links please. hopemountain Feb 2015 #194

I don't live there so I don't have pics of the signs SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #198

okay. hopemountain Feb 2015 #202

Where did I blame the kids? SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #205

you "hope"? hopemountain Feb 2015 #230

Yeah, the rules are rules...like "holding" in the NFL...you call it when you want to. nt kelliekat44 Feb 2015 #241

doubt it.. londie Feb 2015 #3

Nope, the coaches cheated Duckhunter935 Feb 2015 #5

"i would use aunt millie's address in a heart beat" Nye Bevan Feb 2015 #6

the focus has been on the coaches, insisting they sought out those kids. mopinko Feb 2015 #11

Grasping at straws doesn't change anything. CANDO Feb 2015 #34

because i live here. mopinko Feb 2015 #77

little league has lines on maps everywhere; and the players recruited from other league areas ND-Dem Feb 2015 #98

No to both questions n/t SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #36

changes nothing regardless of how the conspirators were introduced elehhhhna Feb 2015 #58

do you have any evidence that the (suburban) parents or kids sought to play for this (inner-city) ND-Dem Feb 2015 #88

the kids from the burbs were from a couple of the poorest mopinko Feb 2015 #214

what are these "poorest towns in chicago"? cause all that i'd discovered so far are wealthier ND-Dem Feb 2015 #224

"bfd about your rules" NaturalHigh Feb 2015 #7

Another team broke rules and lost their state championship CANDO Feb 2015 #9

iirc, the 2 other teams that were stripped found kids lying about their age. mopinko Feb 2015 #10

You're partially correct... CANDO Feb 2015 #14

nobody drives their kid 20 miles for no reason. mopinko Feb 2015 #15

Why can't people read up on the articles out there? CANDO Feb 2015 #17

Link directly to LLB press release CANDO Feb 2015 #18

nothing in that article refutes my supposition mopinko Feb 2015 #26

Well, good luck with your persecution complex. CANDO Feb 2015 #38

Exactly SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #40

i dont believe in blindly following the rules where children are involved. mopinko Feb 2015 #81

Based on posts you've made about your legal issues SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #83

oh, you did some digging did you? mopinko Feb 2015 #126

Digging? SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #130

well i still didnt break any laws. mopinko Feb 2015 #134

I think you probably overestimate those that follow you SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #135

if they don't like rules, then they can just get everyone together to play for fun CreekDog Feb 2015 #196

"the OP doesn't believe in following rules generally"? KamaAina Feb 2015 #204

Well bless your heart SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #207

i'm not persecuted. i'm white. mopinko Feb 2015 #73

Then lets throw out all rules. yeoman6987 Feb 2015 #112

I think you may be responding to the wrong person... NaturalHigh Feb 2015 #116

You may be right. I don't know how that happened. yeoman6987 Feb 2015 #117

Thank you! NaturalHigh Feb 2015 #144

cause we all know all you have to do to get rid of racism mopinko Feb 2015 #133

Come on now, rules are only for some people. hughee99 Feb 2015 #192

yes. because mopinko Feb 2015 #210

There's two potential racial issues going on here... hughee99 Feb 2015 #217

So you're cool with cheating. That's as far as you have to go. "fuck the maps." X_Digger Feb 2015 #19

yes, i support ignoring lines on a map mopinko Feb 2015 #28

Where are you coming up with that? CANDO Feb 2015 #39

can you stop with the apologia? mopinko Feb 2015 #129

Can you stop with the baseless accusations? SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #132

Nice example you're setting for the kids. X_Digger Feb 2015 #140

thanks, i think so. mopinko Feb 2015 #172

No. cwydro Feb 2015 #20

I just see an appalling lack of responsibility and a constitutional inability BubbaFett Feb 2015 #21

and sometimes it is. mopinko Feb 2015 #29

So you're OK with cheating SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #37

cheating v giving my kids what they need? mopinko Feb 2015 #82

What about the teams that lost SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #84

they lost on the field. mopinko Feb 2015 #100

there's no evidence for your theory. There's evidence that the abilities of the kids had everything ND-Dem Feb 2015 #103

They lost to a team that had ineligible players SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #105

maybe because he knew what the kids would have to put up with on that "other" team. mopinko Feb 2015 #110

Comment in an online article SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #115

Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #41

Those pesky rules GummyBearz Feb 2015 #22

not race. racism. mopinko Feb 2015 #27

But you are playing make believe now. CANDO Feb 2015 #44

i'm the racist now. mopinko Feb 2015 #92

Who is being an apologist? GummyBearz Feb 2015 #102

No I don't think it has anything to do with racism. romanic Feb 2015 #23

THey cheated, got caught, and lost thair title Takket Feb 2015 #25

what if racists were a factor? mopinko Feb 2015 #30

and what if it's not? ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2015 #43

You know? CANDO Feb 2015 #45

Exactly... Takket Feb 2015 #48

no, when i hear from the parents and coaches why they did it, mopinko Feb 2015 #71

An investigation has already determined 'why they did it'. To field a 'superteam' that would win ND-Dem Feb 2015 #107

rly? funny i hadnt heard that. mopinko Feb 2015 #131

the league is who conducts the investigation. the coaches and parents speak to the investigators. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #159

What about pete? he's white but they won't let him in the HOF. ileus Feb 2015 #35

I see no particular reason to conclude that the report and the investigation into petronius Feb 2015 #42

when it has basically never happened before, but happens to the first all black team mopinko Feb 2015 #46

This revocation is also on very solid ground SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #49

because i dont have them yet. mopinko Feb 2015 #53

It doesn't matter why they wanted them to play on this team SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #56

sure that could work mopinko Feb 2015 #85

What evidence do you have that these kids were facing racism in their own boundaries? SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #86

i live here. mopinko Feb 2015 #93

So in other words SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #97

and you are an apologist. mopinko Feb 2015 #101

I'll proudly wear the label of SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #106

she has no evidence. she made it up. because *she,* the white lady, "lives there". ND-Dem Feb 2015 #108

I heard two other all-black teams got hit, as well. But it didn't happen to all-white teams with ancianita Feb 2015 #52

Yep. Sure would. AND would take full adult responsibility to ensure residency rules apply to EVERY- ancianita Feb 2015 #47

thank you. mopinko Feb 2015 #50

Oh. Race did. We're swimming in the ocean of race prejudice in this country. I was just ancianita Feb 2015 #54

Cheating negates the "well-deserved" description SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #51

indeed... nt ProdigalJunkMail Feb 2015 #55

Nope. Kids don't get to suffer for the sins of the adults. Had it been a white team, the adults ancianita Feb 2015 #57

You actually have no idea what would have happened had it been a white team SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #60

I've worked with white and black parents & watched the double standards, 'playing stupid' stuff. ancianita Feb 2015 #62

I think I've been very clear in what I think SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #63

League positions should be stripped from the adults. The title itself was won by the kids and should ancianita Feb 2015 #65

You sure are SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #67

Adult cheating is never fine. Your position is that these kids cheated. Own it. ancianita Feb 2015 #69

I've never said the kids cheated SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #72

See post #59 and post #65. ancianita Feb 2015 #79

yup. mopinko Feb 2015 #89

Let 'em lawyer up SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #120

It's not the first time a LL title's been taken away for rules violations. So there goes that ND-Dem Feb 2015 #114

over age is waaaaay different from "wrong side of a line" mopinko Feb 2015 #124

You have provided no proof that the boundaries are drawn based on race SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #125

Reading is fundamental: "after Zamboanga used several players that lived outside its district" ND-Dem Feb 2015 #141

AND who were lying about their age. mopinko Feb 2015 #148

Reading is fundamental: "OR were over-age" ND-Dem Feb 2015 #149

It's only happened two other times in over 60 years n/t kcr Feb 2015 #153

if so, so? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #156

Jackie Robinson West isn't the first team to lose its Little League title. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #111

To anyone here who thinks the kids didn't play in good faith, I have this to say: ancianita Feb 2015 #59

Too funny SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #61

Yep. Funny it's already come out in local news that whites have done just that over the years. lol ancianita Feb 2015 #64

The team cheated SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #66

Your mind has cheated. ancianita Feb 2015 #68

Your attitude would be laughable SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #70

I'll err on the side of kids' team sports experiences over residence exclusions any day. ancianita Feb 2015 #74

The why have any rules at all? SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #76

This is how your mind cheats. You could care less about the residence exclusion rules noted ancianita Feb 2015 #87

I wonder if the President will invite the rightful championship team to the White House? SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #91

there were rules about black eating at lunch counters. should those be obeyed? mopinko Feb 2015 #99

except that all that has nothing to do with the present case, where *black* players from *black* ND-Dem Feb 2015 #118

over age kids is a whole different issue. mopinko Feb 2015 #137

strange how you manage to ignore most of the content of the post & focus on one tiny snip. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #139

Wait, what? I thought you said screw the rules where kids are concerned?!? X_Digger Feb 2015 #143

Just a bit SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #145

i said screw lines on a map. mopinko Feb 2015 #146

Why would you oppose letting older players play SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #147

age is just a line on a map. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #152

yeah, but that is not a line that was drawn mopinko Feb 2015 #170

Then why are the kids they recruited from the suburbs BLACK? Chicago has black suburbs. A resident ND-Dem Feb 2015 #181

did i say that? mopinko Feb 2015 #208

so there are no kids who want to play baseball on chicago's south side, and the black kid ND-Dem Feb 2015 #209

i dont know how many of them there are. mopinko Feb 2015 #211

well, the team only has 14 kids, i believe. so unless fewer than 14 kids on chicago's south side ND-Dem Feb 2015 #213

that is such complete bullshit i dont know where to start. mopinko Feb 2015 #215

so; they can pick and choose who they take, even to the extent of drawing talent from ND-Dem Feb 2015 #219

i dont think you know the first thing about segregation. mopinko Feb 2015 #220

non-seq, especially because i just tracked down some of the places the non-southside players ND-Dem Feb 2015 #223

"Zamboanga USED SEVERAL PLAYERS THAT LIVED OUTSIDE ITS DISTRICT OR were over-age" ND-Dem Feb 2015 #151

yeah. some kids were out of the district, and some were over age. mopinko Feb 2015 #173

Wait, so now you're cool with over-age kids? Thought that was a rule you wouldn't break.. X_Digger Feb 2015 #175

Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #238

And what do those cheating adults in Chicago kiva Feb 2015 #80

You mean the kids who earned two runs in the game they lost? Please, tell me what they should get. ancianita Feb 2015 #90

If you're talking about the Las Vegas team SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #95

you mean the team that didn't have "ringers"? you mean the team that wasn't found to have attempted ND-Dem Feb 2015 #119

until they give that team the same scrutiny, mopinko Feb 2015 #138

the whole point of my thread is about this business of "ringers" mopinko Feb 2015 #104

That's what the investigation found. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #121

they have no way to know that. mopinko Feb 2015 #136

and you know that because.....? evidence? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #150

i have my opinion because i live here. and my kids played sports here. mopinko Feb 2015 #167

ok. it's your opinion, based on no evidence except the racism of chicago. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #168

that's right. mopinko Feb 2015 #169

So really there is no proof you will accept that these coaches kiva Feb 2015 #123

why were they cleared the first time? mopinko Feb 2015 #185

You seem to miss the point of youth sports altogether. WillowTree Feb 2015 #96

you miss the point of my whole argument. mopinko Feb 2015 #109

Do you even know who draws the boundary lines? n/t SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #142

they are based on municipal boundaries. mopinko Feb 2015 #189

No, they aren't SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #190

Well said n/t SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #113

Apparently for some, this isn't about the kids and building their character. Throd Feb 2015 #174

except that they showed exceptional character. mopinko Feb 2015 #184

Where did I say the players had no character? Throd Feb 2015 #186

Are you ok with this for school reasons? treestar Feb 2015 #122

Does anyone know if kids from the neighborhood did not make the team dilby Feb 2015 #155

my guess is that someone wanted to field an exceptional team, a winning low income black ND-Dem Feb 2015 #157

like the baake decision, you mean? mopinko Feb 2015 #166

Or more than likely the kids were chosen based on the ability to win. dilby Feb 2015 #176

and more poor kids and kids with special needs in the home district v. the suburbs too. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #182

really? mopinko Feb 2015 #183

The kids that they brought in were clearly allstars, that is a win at all costs attitude. dilby Feb 2015 #187

so, because the kid was good means nothing else matters? mopinko Feb 2015 #212

No, it wouldn't make any difference SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #188

no such thing has been proven. mopinko Feb 2015 #216

You just don't seem to get it SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #218

Have you ever known any "sports parents?" YarnAddict Feb 2015 #160

like i said, my kids played baseball. mopinko Feb 2015 #164

Do you know YarnAddict Feb 2015 #165

the "team, aka young players" hopemountain Feb 2015 #195

Seeing as they had ineligible players on the team SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #225

no, i will not answer your loaded & biased question hopemountain Feb 2015 #229

Neither of those terms is disputed SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #231

explain to you what i have already explained? hopemountain Feb 2015 #232

In other words SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #233

oh, so your narrow thinking hopemountain Feb 2015 #234

MY narrow thinking? SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #235

no. again, your opinion of what i "THINK cheating is" hopemountain Feb 2015 #236

It isn't a matter of opinion SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #237

the players did not cheat. hopemountain Feb 2015 #239

Some of the players were ineligible SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #240

When rules are selectively enforced in disproportiate harm to black people bluestateguy Feb 2015 #226

Unless someone files a complaint SickOfTheOnePct Feb 2015 #227

thank you. mopinko Feb 2015 #228