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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
81. Frank Church warned us in 1975 about the secret government and secret power.
Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:11 PM
Feb 2015

Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho) was a patriot, a hero and a statesman, truly a great American.

The guy also led the last real investigation of CIA, NSA and FBI. When it came to NSA Tech circa 1975, he definitely knew what he was talking about:

[font color="green"]“That capability at any time could be turned around on the American people and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide. If this government ever became a tyranny, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back, because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology.

I don’t want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capability that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.”[/font color]

-- Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho) FDR New Deal, Liberal, Progressive, World War II combat veteran. A brave man, the NSA was turned on him. Coincidentally, he narrowly lost re-election the next cycle.


And what happened to Church, for his trouble to preserve Democracy:

In 1980, Church will lose re-election to the Senate in part because of accusations of his committee’s responsibility for Welch’s death by his Republican opponent, Jim McClure.

SOURCE: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=frank_church_1


From GWU's National Security Archives:



"Disreputable if Not Outright Illegal": The National Security Agency versus Martin Luther King, Muhammad Ali, Art Buchwald, Frank Church, et al.

Newly Declassified History Divulges Names of Prominent Americans Targeted by NSA during Vietnam Era

Declassification Decision by Interagency Panel Releases New Information on the Berlin Crisis, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Panama Canal Negotiations


National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 441
Posted – September 25, 2013
Originally Posted - November 14, 2008
Edited by Matthew M. Aid and William Burr

Washington, D.C., September 25, 2013 – During the height of the Vietnam War protest movements in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the National Security Agency tapped the overseas communications of selected prominent Americans, most of whom were critics of the war, according to a recently declassified NSA history. For years those names on the NSA's watch list were secret, but thanks to the decision of an interagency panel, in response to an appeal by the National Security Archive, the NSA has released them for the first time. The names of the NSA's targets are eye-popping. Civil rights leaders Dr. Martin Luther King and Whitney Young were on the watch list, as were the boxer Muhammad Ali, New York Times journalist Tom Wicker, and veteran Washington Post humor columnist Art Buchwald. Also startling is that the NSA was tasked with monitoring the overseas telephone calls and cable traffic of two prominent members of Congress, Senators Frank Church (D-Idaho) and Howard Baker (R-Tennessee).

SNIP...

Another NSA target was Senator Frank Church, who started out as a moderate Vietnam War critic. A member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee even before the Tonkin Gulf incident, Church worried about U.S. intervention in a "political war" that was militarily unwinnable. While Church voted for the Tonkin Gulf resolution, he later saw his vote as a grave error. In 1965, as Lyndon Johnson made decisions to escalate the war, Church argued that the United States was doing "too much," criticisms that one White House official said were "irresponsible." Church had been one of Johnson's Senate allies but the President was angry with Church and other Senate critics and later suggested that they were under Moscow's influence because of their meetings with Soviet diplomats. In the fall of 1967, Johnson declared that "the major threat we have is from the doves" and ordered FBI security checks on "individuals who wrote letters and telegrams critical of a speech he had recently delivered." In that political climate, it is not surprising that some government officials eventually nominated Church for the watch list.[10]

SOURCE: http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB441/



I wonder if Sen. Richard Schweiker (R-PA), a liberal Republican, also got the treatment from NSA?

“I think that the report, to those who have studied it closely, has collapsed like a house of cards, and I think the people who read it in the long run future will see that. I frankly believe that we have shown that the [investigation of the] John F. Kennedy assassination was snuffed out before it even began, and that the fatal mistake the Warren Commission made was not to use its own investigators, but instead to rely on the CIA and FBI personnel, which played directly into the hands of senior intelligence officials who directed the cover-up.” — Senator Richard Schweiker on “Face the Nation” in 1976.

Lost to History NOT, thanks to people who care. Thank you, infinitely, sabrina 1.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

JFK made it abundantly clear to many people hifiguy Feb 2015 #1
John F. Kennedy's Vision of Peace Octafish Feb 2015 #25
The CIA Should Be Disbanded. Kennedy got it right. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #75
Frank Church warned us in 1975 about the secret government and secret power. Octafish Feb 2015 #81
Just think, if this policy had prevailed, I would have missed jaysunb Feb 2015 #2
How many trips did you make a broad? HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #7
LOL ! jaysunb Feb 2015 #10
Yes killing Kommunists for Freedom warrant46 Feb 2015 #22
I'm still conflicted about LBJ jaysunb Feb 2015 #34
Halliburton Deals Recall Vietnam-Era Controversy Octafish Feb 2015 #39
IIRC the second volume of Robert Caro's LBJ biography hifiguy Feb 2015 #53
They are bad, real bad, JonLP24 Feb 2015 #80
Look at foreign policy & domestic spying JonLP24 Feb 2015 #78
Same here brother, same here. GGJohn Feb 2015 #37
No he didn't or he wouldn't have escalated the war like he did during his presidency. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #3
Are you questioning the authenticity of NSAM 263? RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #5
Outstanding post, Rufus! hifiguy Feb 2015 #6
Thanks! And to answer your question: Yes, I have! RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #8
Outstanding book. H2O Man Feb 2015 #17
Yikes! Didn't even know about the Gandhi book RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #24
It didn't get H2O Man Feb 2015 #32
I'm looking forward to reading it. RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #35
I am not questioning Kennedy's words. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #9
I guess you do not know what back-channels means. Rex Feb 2015 #29
I don't doubt Kennedy tried to find a diplomatic end. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #31
Oh I do completely, by his second term. Rex Feb 2015 #33
Well it's not like Vietnam turned nuclear anyway. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #40
It easily could have, if John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles had their way. Octafish Feb 2015 #50
Many of those who disagree with you (and me) begin their posts with the words "I believe." That KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #68
+1 n/t jaysunb Feb 2015 #70
You're trying to talk facts into this debate YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #63
''This is a sacred cow here. An article of faith among Camelot believers.'' Octafish Feb 2015 #84
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Feb 2015 #16
I think his decision making in 1963 warrants at least a debate on the matter. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #27
Interesting. H2O Man Feb 2015 #42
Remarks of Senator John F. Kennedy on Indochina before the Senate, Washington, D.C., April 6, 1954 Octafish Feb 2015 #44
Excellent ! n/t jaysunb Feb 2015 #72
JFK toured Vietnam in 1951... Octafish Feb 2015 #73
this is one of the reasons heaven05 Feb 2015 #4
Bingo we have a winner! workinclasszero Feb 2015 #19
No, he really didn't Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #11
JFK’s Embrace of Third World Nationalists Octafish Feb 2015 #46
The CIA didn't much care for Kennedy. blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #12
Just the bad apples who contracted the Mafia to murder heads of state. Octafish Feb 2015 #38
The George Bush Center for Intelligence is the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #13
Pic URL: blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #14
Meanwhile, in regards to Cuba.... YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #15
Just before his assassination, President Kennedy ordered secret peace talks with Castro Octafish Feb 2015 #49
It can be safely said Castro and Khrushchev were hifiguy Feb 2015 #54
Which is so weird how the evidentiary trail led right to them. Octafish Feb 2015 #55
According to Douglass there were at least two hifiguy Feb 2015 #56
"This is a story that I don't see mentioned very often" YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #61
So when you can't find anything to support your POV, resort to condescension, YoungDemCA. Octafish Feb 2015 #67
This a a good discussion & debate - FairWinds Feb 2015 #18
George H.W. Bush was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. Octafish Feb 2015 #69
Not to mention JFK was also going to obliterate the CIA 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #20
JFK famously said after the Bay of Pigs hifiguy Feb 2015 #28
Back channel negotiations with Khrushchev. roamer65 Feb 2015 #21
Secret Government is why the pendulum won't swing back. Octafish Feb 2015 #52
All due respect, but the verdict of professional historians who have examined the KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #23
JFK would have pulled the plug on it. roamer65 Feb 2015 #58
John M. Newman, in ''JFK and Vietnam'' documented the sordid history. Octafish Feb 2015 #71
Since your extract mentions Kaiser's "American Tragedy" in its final paragraph, it is KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #76
Not a thesis. It's what the documentary record shows. Octafish Feb 2015 #82
We are now come full circle. If JFK was being fed info that led hiim to believe the KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #85
So Oliver Stone was right. That's what he said after his movie JFK came out. nt Damansarajaya Feb 2015 #26
lol. nt BootinUp Feb 2015 #47
''I will never send draftees over there to fight.'' Octafish Feb 2015 #48
He wanted a complete withdraw, but the MICIA said no way. Rex Feb 2015 #30
JFK would never fall for phony intel like Gulf of Tonkin. Octafish Feb 2015 #74
I have tried to get folks to view "Evidence of Revision" 1-6 on YouTube. kelliekat44 Feb 2015 #36
Thank you, kelliekat44! Octafish Feb 2015 #83
That's probably why the Fascists killed him. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #41
Agreed, Almost Certainly colsohlibgal Feb 2015 #43
The evidence that Oswald was "just a patsy" is undeniable. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #51
I remember seeing the clip where Oswald makes the "patsy" statement. hifiguy Feb 2015 #57
Better yet, look up the video of Jack Ruby saying "If Adlai Stevenson had been VP..." N/t roamer65 Feb 2015 #59
I deny it. As does Oswald's brother, for that matter. YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #62
K&R woo me with science Feb 2015 #45
Peter Dale Scott did the yeoman's work on JFK and Vietnam issue. Octafish Feb 2015 #86
November 22, 1963 was a coup d'état masked by an assassination...plain and simple. roamer65 Feb 2015 #60
JFK knew what he was getting into in Dallas. He had survived an attempt in Chicago... Octafish Feb 2015 #89
I have always suspected JFK was killed for his opposition to that war. Special Prosciuto Feb 2015 #64
Kennedy had too much potential to help the common people. There is even a rumor that he was dissentient Feb 2015 #65
Flying Saucer bullshit began in 1947, with the hallucinating "pilot" Kenneth Arnold Special Prosciuto Feb 2015 #66
He also shot down Operation Northwoods JonLP24 Feb 2015 #77
John Aschcroft stopped flying commercial airliners in July 2001 based on a 'threat assessment.' Octafish Feb 2015 #87
I was actually looking up black market nuclear history as well as overall nuclear history JonLP24 Feb 2015 #90
We really don't know what JFK would've done with Vietnam. He didn't want to make a decision until craigmatic Feb 2015 #79
At this point madville Feb 2015 #88
Interesting thread. K&R nt Electric Monk Feb 2015 #91
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