General Discussion

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)

157. Well... To me (and this is just my bat-shit insane idology), slavery is rather black and white.

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 01:16 AM

Feb 2015

Owning slaves = bad.
Not owning slaves = good.

I cannot fathom, in any way, or by any stretch of my imagination, how slavery can not be bad. Not yesterday, today or tomorrow. I don't care if you're talking Ancient Egypt, Rome, or Greece... Medieval Europe... Or the more modern era, like colonial United States, WWII Germany, Soviet Gulags. Or current day Africa, North Korea, South America... Fuck it, there is human trafficking on every continent but Antarctica (as far as I'm aware). I cannot see anything but evil in any of it.

No matter what era you live in, slavery is a deprivation of all an individual's natural rights. They have ceased to exist of their own accord, but to live all of their life and die, not by nature, but at the hand of their master.

"all men are born equally free," and hold "certain inherent natural rights, of which they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity."

George Washington owned more than twice the people than I share office space with. He owned them. They lived and died under his rule. If they broke free, he had them hunted down. They went where he commanded, they ate what he commanded, they dressed in what he commanded, and they labored under his command until they died. Sure as hell sounds like tyranny to me.

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A holiday to honor someone who owned hundreds of slaves for over 50 years, [View all] Nye Bevan Feb 2015 OP

Oh, please ann--- Feb 2015 #1

Nope, it's not "Presidents Day", it is officially "Washington's Birthday". Nye Bevan Feb 2015 #3

Wow--I was sure that it had been changed to "Presidents' Day." Orrex Feb 2015 #11

It was. WillowTree Feb 2015 #158

This message was self-deleted by its author Bohunk68 Feb 2015 #166

It's also officially "Presidents Day" Major Nikon Feb 2015 #18

"Judging people who lived hundreds or thousands of years ago by today's standards.. whathehell Feb 2015 #33

No we should not. Because slavery is a common theme in human history. Drahthaardogs Feb 2015 #51

& some freed blacks owned slaves--human imperfection crosses all races, genders, creeds�. zazen Feb 2015 #58

Slavery still exists today. Jamastiene Feb 2015 #126

Actually what you don't realize is that the american Solomon Feb 2015 #152

ISIS enslaving and raping little girls is every bit as bad. Liberty Belle Feb 2015 #161

The Nazis' enslavement of large numbers of eastern Europeans and Jews was KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #164

That's ridiculous! Solomon Feb 2015 #174

No. Next Question. Richardo Feb 2015 #86

That's not what your Snopes link actually says. pnwmom Feb 2015 #100

"nearly half of the state governments have officially renamed their Washington's Birthday...." uppityperson Feb 2015 #118

No ann--- Feb 2015 #127

My calendar says "Presidents' Day" bigwillq Feb 2015 #175

I'm convinced. I'll never vote for him again! 11 Bravo Feb 2015 #180

He also killed hundreds/thousands WhiteTara Feb 2015 #4

And what is your source? GP6971 Feb 2015 #133

American history 101 -French and Indian Wars WhiteTara Feb 2015 #137

Far cry from genocide Telcontar Feb 2015 #138

Compared to modern instances of it, yes... Lancero Feb 2015 #160

And I cited only one instance WhiteTara Feb 2015 #168

Thank you. I thought that's what you were referring to GP6971 Feb 2015 #141

according to Thornton hfojvt Feb 2015 #173

I'm not sure you phil89 Feb 2015 #9

I'm not sure if you whathehell Feb 2015 #27

I strongly recommend you self-delete. merrily Feb 2015 #10

I tend to agree with what you are saying. However, if I am not mistaken the issue of slavery was jwirr Feb 2015 #52

Actually, it was a bone of contention in getting support for the Revolution itself, not only the merrily Feb 2015 #59

I agree that the slaves were not treated well. I mentioned the book not to defend slavery but I jwirr Feb 2015 #69

Being in Massachusetts, I've had coffee in a home that was part of the Underground Railroad merrily Feb 2015 #71

I hope we preserve those homes. They are a part of our history and we need to remember our jwirr Feb 2015 #76

"We" are doing nothing to preserve that particular one as it is a private home. merrily Feb 2015 #77

Yeah, I hear you. The historical society that should be taking care of it have other priorities. On jwirr Feb 2015 #91

It will probably survive this owner as they seem to have the money to maintain it and heaven knows, merrily Feb 2015 #93

You need to go to Mount Vernon and see the slave quarters. Scuba Feb 2015 #56

Or any plantation for that matter GP6971 Feb 2015 #67

Also from your link: benz380 Feb 2015 #2

Or, like Adams, he could have simply not owned slaves. Nye Bevan Feb 2015 #5

+1 I always enjoy agreeing with people, most esp those with whom I rarely agree. merrily Feb 2015 #15

One reason why I never use "Ignore" (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2015 #20

The Pres. Adams of the Alien and Sedition Acts earthside Feb 2015 #42

Wouldn't that have been Congress? Granted he did not veto, but did he write that legislation? merrily Feb 2015 #65

At least one of them GP6971 Feb 2015 #75

Maybe, but that is a very different issue from Adams's culpablity. merrily Feb 2015 #78

I'll have to check when I get back GP6971 Feb 2015 #87

No, if you don't know off the top of your head, you don't have a responsiblity to check merrily Feb 2015 #89

But now I'm curious GP6971 Feb 2015 #116

OK....it was a quick check via GP6971 Feb 2015 #122

Or like a Deity, he could simply have been without fault altogether.. whathehell Feb 2015 #44

Between perfection and owning slaves, fully realizing that is wrong, is a lot of ground. merrily Feb 2015 #68

+ i'm shocked that not more agree with you. bravenak Feb 2015 #73

which is likely why he was the richest president ever. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #85

Adams was worse than Washington. Glassunion Feb 2015 #129

Hogwash. He exploited human beings to support his lifestyle throughout his life. And, when he merrily Feb 2015 #14

Hah! He sure struggled hard, some 50 years while he got rich. brush Feb 2015 #24

Washington twice attempted to have Oney Judge kidnapped and returned to slavery Chathamization Feb 2015 #32

He didn't reward his "faithful" slaves who did not run away, either. merrily Feb 2015 #99

should we discount mlk jr's contribution cause he had extra-marital affairs? Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #6

False equivalency at it's finest brush Feb 2015 #7

no im comparing people who did great things but have problems with their pasts Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #12

No, your comparison was invalid, a wholly false equivalency, just as brush posted. merrily Feb 2015 #19

you are free to disagree Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #38

It not about disagreeing. It's about pointing out your errors in logic. merrily Feb 2015 #50

Then I suggest we not have a MLK Day, TM99 Feb 2015 #57

Please take that up with Nye, who wrote the OP. merrily Feb 2015 #60

You are attempting to defend the OP. TM99 Feb 2015 #61

You are mistaken. Please quote words from a post of mine saying Washington should merrily Feb 2015 #62

You attempt to defend the OP TM99 Feb 2015 #81

No. I have been arguing against posters who defend slaveowners, minimize the evil of slavery, etc. merrily Feb 2015 #88

Then you are doing so circuitously. TM99 Feb 2015 #107

Foibles and Flaws? Glassunion Feb 2015 #113

I am not totally up to snuff on my internet memes TM99 Feb 2015 #117

Pretty much anyone who ever owned slaves deserves a good hit. Glassunion Feb 2015 #119

I just don't feel that way. TM99 Feb 2015 #131

We all have our prejudices. Yours are just different from mine. Glassunion Feb 2015 #134

Funny, I never said you had any prejudices. TM99 Feb 2015 #136

You exposed your own prejudices. Not me. Glassunion Feb 2015 #139

Look, TM99 Feb 2015 #140

So a modern day slave trader is simply a "flawed" person who partakes in "abhorrent" behavior? Glassunion Feb 2015 #142

Give it up. TM99 Feb 2015 #144

Well... To me (and this is just my bat-shit insane idology), slavery is rather black and white. Glassunion Feb 2015 #157

IMO it's still false equivalency brush Feb 2015 #22

It's not an opinion. It is a false equivalency. No question. With a straw man thrown in for good merrily Feb 2015 #23

This thread is a nauseating, heart wrenchin mess already. I have a feeling it will only go downhill. merrily Feb 2015 #21

Not at all.. whathehell Feb 2015 #36

Probably not in the way you might think Major Nikon Feb 2015 #40

Having extra marital affairs has nothing to do with civil rights. merrily Feb 2015 #16

i never said it did - youre discounting what i said and focusing on something i didnt say ... eom Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #43

You miss the point. I was explaining why your equivalency was so false. merrily Feb 2015 #48

I would say that extra-marital affairs GP6971 Feb 2015 #34

Oh, contraire..When the power differential between the sexes whathehell Feb 2015 #39

That argument isn't valid when the lower power person initiates the affair. Nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #147

How about when the "lower person" is underage? whathehell Feb 2015 #163

WINNER, WINNER. Best post of the day. brush Feb 2015 #45

Yet so much of history prescribed a death penalty for only one One_Life_To_Give Feb 2015 #102

Yeah, Yeah! But even back then many knew enslaving other human beings was . . . brush Feb 2015 #146

it's true and i wasnt Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #49

Thank you.. whathehell Feb 2015 #35

Only his religious contributions. Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #120

There's strong historical evidence that slavery had a causal contribution mythology Feb 2015 #8

"even if you count the slave owning against Washington" WTF? merrily Feb 2015 #17

Yeah, enslaving human beings caused the country to become rich and . . . brush Feb 2015 #30

I choose to celebrate my children, Grant and Carter. Borchkins Feb 2015 #13

If you grow up on a society where slave owning is common Kurska Feb 2015 #25

Well said. At some future point in time we will all be criticized for eating meat or driving FSogol Feb 2015 #28

Time out! brush Feb 2015 #41

Yeah and there have always been people who supported gay rights Kurska Feb 2015 #54

Even then some realized that 5-10% of the population was born gay brush Feb 2015 #148

Lol that is really the best you have Kurska Feb 2015 #150

First of all, it's not my thread. brush Feb 2015 #154

My reply is directly related to the OP Kurska Feb 2015 #155

Two different and consequential issues that are deserving of their own thread . . . brush Feb 2015 #159

"People do not understand how much their morals are shaped by social context" whathehell Feb 2015 #46

Please see Replies 14 and 79. merrily Feb 2015 #90

This message was self-deleted by its author GeorgeGist Feb 2015 #92

For that matter, it was more difficult for them to treestar Feb 2015 #109

Moses did a few genocides, and every single Biblical author quoted to excuse anti gay bigotry in Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #26

Oh, good grief. aquart Feb 2015 #29

You don't have to honor Washington if you don't want to. Pick your favorite president, and consider dissentient Feb 2015 #31

George Washington on slavery: LWolf Feb 2015 #37

Yet nothing prevented him from freeing his own slaves before he personally had no further use for merrily Feb 2015 #55

Context. nt LWolf Feb 2015 #94

No. Hypocrisy, not context. If he seemed oblivious to the evil, context might be an argument. merrily Feb 2015 #96

No. LWolf Feb 2015 #97

Again, I did not ignore context. merrily Feb 2015 #98

A closer look LWolf Feb 2015 #101

Still not ignoring context. Not cherrypicking it, either. merrily Feb 2015 #104

Thank you. Octafish Feb 2015 #70

Don't forget corporations. Jamastiene Feb 2015 #128

So from what you posted Glassunion Feb 2015 #105

Okay. LWolf Feb 2015 #111

I missed nothing. Glassunion Feb 2015 #112

Those laws were on and off again LWolf Feb 2015 #165

yet he made beaucoup bucks off of their blood his whole life. bettyellen Feb 2015 #106

I honor the thought-processes and writings of Plato, Homer and Aristotle LanternWaste Feb 2015 #47

It should be a day to honor all Presidents. Presidents' Day, not President's Day. merrily Feb 2015 #53

Even on DU, mention slavery, the confederate flag, etc. and you get all kinds of ugly surprises. merrily Feb 2015 #63

Almost every major figure in history has a checkered past by modern ethical standards. bluedigger Feb 2015 #64

Inasmuch as Washington railed against the wrongness of slavery, judge him by his own standards. merrily Feb 2015 #79

Wut? VScott Feb 2015 #66

I think we should have a Mother Jones Day...she saved poor children from slaving 12+ hours a day libdem4life Feb 2015 #72

And let's rename the nation's capital onenote Feb 2015 #74

Our Corporate Masters have determined that we are to have TEN days a year off. No more. Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2015 #80

This message was self-deleted by its author Richardo Feb 2015 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author Richardo Feb 2015 #83

This message was self-deleted by its author Richardo Feb 2015 #84

It would be interesting to see how we will be judged in 200 years. Throd Feb 2015 #95

Workers who are paid so little they cannot afford to live anywhere abelenkpe Feb 2015 #103

+1 treestar Feb 2015 #110

Judging the 18th century by 21st century standards. Jenoch Feb 2015 #108

18th vs. 21st century Glassunion Feb 2015 #114

While I believe slavery is and was wrong, Jenoch Feb 2015 #123

The two are not mutually exclusive. Glassunion Feb 2015 #124

Of course American slavery was a terrible thing. Jenoch Feb 2015 #169

You're making terrible assumptions. Glassunion Feb 2015 #170

Robert E. Lee's slaves were descended from Washington's slaves. kwassa Feb 2015 #115

This is what happens when people take their copy of "A People's History" wayyy too seriously. Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #121

A very thought provoking OP. stevenleser Feb 2015 #125

Do you support honoring him with the name of the nation's capital? onenote Feb 2015 #135

How many folks have a National Holiday for them in the US? That kind of honor should not be stevenleser Feb 2015 #145

How many folks were the commander of the revolutionary army and first president? onenote Feb 2015 #149

I agree the Capital is a similar honor. And I would support it being revisited. stevenleser Feb 2015 #151

30 counties. 30 cities. At least onenote Feb 2015 #156

What moral failings? Glassunion Feb 2015 #171

So you support renaming the state of Washington. onenote Feb 2015 #176

There would be no benefit. Glassunion Feb 2015 #178

You realize it also would piss off a shit-ton of Democrats and independents, too, right? onenote Feb 2015 #179

Well, you see the general attitude right in this thread. Jamastiene Feb 2015 #130

Believing that slavery was an abominable institution ... DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #143

He had wooden teeth Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #132

Did you think your post GP6971 Feb 2015 #153

John Adams refused to give women rights in the constituion, Liberty Belle Feb 2015 #162

Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #167

So what do you suggest we do? BlueStater Feb 2015 #172

Apparently we should disavow the Founding Fathers altogether & pretend the US was... Hekate Feb 2015 #177