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ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)

263. i think kennedy's challenge had nothing to do with carter's "unpopularity".

Thu Feb 19, 2015, 04:02 AM

Feb 2015

Mr. Carter told Stahl, "The fact is that we would have had comprehensive health care now, had it not been for Ted Kennedy's deliberately blocking the legislation that I proposed." Mr. Carter contends Kennedy did it out of spite to deprive his rival of a major domestic policy success. Mr. Carter declared, "It was his fault. Ted Kennedy killed the bill." In a journal entry included his new book, "White House Diary," Carter noted, "Kennedy continuing his irresponsible and abusive attitude, immediately condemning our health plan."

Of course, Kennedy had his own say about his chilly relationship with Carter in his memoir, "True Compass." Kennedy said it was Mr. Carter who "slowed things down." He noted, "If we had passed comprehensive national health insurance together it would have been a huge victory for Carter."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/time-has-not-cooled-jimmy-carter-ted-kennedy-feud/

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How many DUers are old enough to have experienced our bad losses? [View all] MohRokTah Feb 2015 OP

I remember all of them MiniMe Feb 2015 #1

Identical Situation Mini ProfessorGAC Feb 2015 #180

My first vote was for Jimmy Carter in 1976 Gothmog Feb 2015 #193

Careful, you're injecting pragmatism into the DU fantasy world. FSogol Feb 2015 #2

Pragmatism? Hardly. Falsehoods? Definately .... Scuba Feb 2015 #145

Thank. You. Scuba! Caretha Feb 2015 #155

The OP is wrong about at least half of the timeline offered leveymg Feb 2015 #156

Ross Perot contributed significantly to Clinton's win Calista241 Feb 2015 #271

"but the centrists did when we ran progressives" = +100. Not only abandoned, but sabotaged. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #192

Agreed. I am old enough to remember that also. And I go further back. We nominated Jimmy jwirr Feb 2015 #210

Where can I get that Feingold "button"? Lifelong Protester Feb 2015 #222

... Scuba Feb 2015 #226

Thanks! Lifelong Protester Feb 2015 #257

+++ fadedrose Feb 2015 #268

Wow that made me stop and think.. Peacetrain Feb 2015 #3

If they get the right jury I'm sure the OP could end up hidden. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #4

Oh yeah RoccoRyg Feb 2015 #41

Not sure what George Wallace running in that election has to do with 2016? randys1 Feb 2015 #202

No, he's not right. Hissyspit Feb 2015 #241

When Bill Clinton won the primaries for 1992, I was not very happy about it. NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #5

I don't believe a single candidate you mentioned could have defeated Bush. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #6

Because??? NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #16

Jerry Brown is my governor now Frances Feb 2015 #37

Smartest man in the room. NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #44

Mike Royko, a columnist in Chicago, called him Governor Moonbeam. It was sick, but it was all over Hekate Feb 2015 #108

And Royko Was An Outspoken Dem ProfessorGAC Feb 2015 #182

Like I said, I liked his columns. They appeared in some paper where I was living in college... Hekate Feb 2015 #216

I Was Amplifying Your Point, Not Disagreeing ProfessorGAC Feb 2015 #233

I understood, and thank you. Hekate Feb 2015 #242

Both Jerry Brown and Bill Clinton are borderline geniuses in their own right and randys1 Feb 2015 #203

The trouble is that "have to adopt some of it" only lasts up until inauguration. NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #206

+100. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #260

walmart & jackson stephens. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #80

Not in those days, pal. Try again. Hekate Feb 2015 #103

is that so? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #214

Because it fits the narrative they are trying to spin and their ideology. TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #148

Because RobinA Feb 2015 #160

Except Gore did beat Bush - w/ popular vote, just not Electoral Panich52 Feb 2015 #17

actually the Supreme Court stopped a recount rbrnmw Feb 2015 #24

Actually no. former9thward Feb 2015 #107

Yes, the SCOTUS should've ordered a statewide recount. joshcryer Feb 2015 #125

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #134

By that time it passed the deadline. joshcryer Feb 2015 #139

Nonsense Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #141

It is a fact Gore sought a selective recount. joshcryer Feb 2015 #144

Florida Law demanded that any recounts be selective Bandit Feb 2015 #191

Yeah, but that was also a different Bush. Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #84

Wrong. Bush lost because the economy was so bad. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #90

Bush lost because of Perot. former9thward Feb 2015 #112

Also true. But Perot was popular because the economy was terrible and had been terrible JDPriestly Feb 2015 #121

"the giant sucking sound"... former9thward Feb 2015 #184

So we elected a Clinton and Perot's prediction proved true. I don't want to make that mistake JDPriestly Feb 2015 #204

Nonsense Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #143

No, he guessed right on bread. former9thward Feb 2015 #187

Bush lost due to one seminal moment.... CANDO Feb 2015 #196

The arguments don't square. Two of the oldest elections involved the first times we had serious newthinking Feb 2015 #122

Jerry Brown has turned California around. When he was elected, the nation was laughing at our JDPriestly Feb 2015 #92

I think you're wrong about Unknown Beatle Feb 2015 #123

I campaigned for Jerry Brown in '76 pamela Feb 2015 #221

Hilarious. onehandle Feb 2015 #12

Ya. Ricky Ray Rector executed. Don't Ask Don't Tell and NAFTA. Just fucking hilarious. NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #18

If only Hillary had Bill's charisma . . .. but she doesn't. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #101

Bill Clinton appointed Breyer and Ginsburg Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #20

And Jerry Brown and McCarthy would have done at least as well. (nt) NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #34

President McCarthy? Frances Feb 2015 #39

Jerry Brown or McCarthy would have lost worse to Bush than Dukakis did. eom MohRokTah Feb 2015 #50

But Bush Sr. would not and that was the alternative to Clinton. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #73

Breyer sucks. Ginsburg is pretty good. Vattel Feb 2015 #49

Eugene McCarthy had pretty well been reduced to Harold Stassen status by '92 Algernon Moncrieff Feb 2015 #161

2000 and 2010 were ties for the worst losses of all. onehandle Feb 2015 #7

I do treestar Feb 2015 #8

I still have my McGovern button HERVEPA Feb 2015 #15

McGovern was well before my time forest444 Feb 2015 #47

Navy blue with McGovern in white? treestar Feb 2015 #171

I think, but I'll have to check. Still have McCarthy from '68 I believe also. HERVEPA Feb 2015 #172

Gods, do I remember. But it's kind of like being able to remember polio and measles around here... Hekate Feb 2015 #9

One of my saddest childhood memories is my parents actually crying when enough Feb 2015 #10

I remember wearing a Stevenson button in school. RoverSuswade Feb 2015 #86

I'm the same age as you. ANOIS Feb 2015 #209

Too bad that more did not vote for the right people... Bonobo Feb 2015 #11

The only way to alter the two party system is to amend the constitution to end the electoral college MohRokTah Feb 2015 #14

It's especially difficult when we mock attempts by the states to call a Constitutional Convention. Bonobo Feb 2015 #26

I am firmly opposed to a Constitutional Convention. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #48

It's a tough call but... Bonobo Feb 2015 #51

Not a tough call with the number of state legislatures in the hands of theocratic GOP. longship Feb 2015 #79

I think the Constitution needs to be modernized, but there are no set procedures for it Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2015 #113

The Handmaid's Tale and The Hunger Games Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #166

Do you like the Citizens United decision. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #95

one thing we agree on grasswire Feb 2015 #244

I think we would actually agree on a lot. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #246

You can strengthen third parties with approval voting. joshcryer Feb 2015 #126

I remember when Dukakis lost in 1988. Terra Alta Feb 2015 #13

I was 19 actually rbrnmw Feb 2015 #265

the first political memory I have is..... rbrnmw Feb 2015 #19

mine = "kennedy, kennedy is our man! nixon's in the garbage can!" ND-Dem Feb 2015 #262

"because of a challenge from the left in the primaries" - is horseshit. Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #21

Agreed. Carter lost because of inflation and the hostage crisis... First Speaker Feb 2015 #23

i think kennedy's challenge had nothing to do with carter's "unpopularity". ND-Dem Feb 2015 #263

+10 appalachiablue Feb 2015 #53

Correct, Reagan/Bush October Surprise had a lot to do with it dreamnightwind Feb 2015 #99

Oh, don't mention historical facts that fairly convincingly challenge the OP's premise. Hissyspit Feb 2015 #240

Anyone who talks about the 1980 race without mentioning "Iran", "hostage crisis", and... JHB Feb 2015 #230

I like to remember the good ones when I was much younger GP6971 Feb 2015 #22

Do you remember the Democratic "base" turning against LBJ? OilemFirchen Feb 2015 #59

Not sure I understand GP6971 Feb 2015 #63

Why is that, do you s'pose? OilemFirchen Feb 2015 #65

I was just commenting on the better times as opposed to our losses.....kind of a positive spin. GP6971 Feb 2015 #71

No, the radical left.... OilemFirchen Feb 2015 #75

Ahhhhhhh......got it! GP6971 Feb 2015 #81

LBJ had signed the Civil Rights Act and had gotten us deeper into the Viet Nam War. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #100

LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act. The South has voted against Democrats for the most part since JDPriestly Feb 2015 #102

Arkansas is, indeed, a Southern state Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #133

But I doubt that Hillary will be viewed as having much that is Southern in her background. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #135

It's been more than 20 years since Hillary had any visible connection to the state Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #136

Nixon and Johnson never ran against each other Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2015 #114

Some of us can remember the way Nixon sabotaged the Paris peace talks to win the election Fumesucker Feb 2015 #25

Nixon committed treason rbrnmw Feb 2015 #31

How about Ronnie with the Iran hostage issue? I firmly believe treason doesn't apply GP6971 Feb 2015 #42

listen to this rbrnmw Feb 2015 #43

Thanks GP6971 Feb 2015 #61

1968. The entire year was horrible. blue neen Feb 2015 #27

The 68 election was my political awakening Midnight Writer Feb 2015 #96

That's a really cool story about your mom. blue neen Feb 2015 #178

Left challenges weren't only cause of St Ronnie winning Panich52 Feb 2015 #28

"I ain't wearin' no stinkin' sweater in my house & I ain't drivin' 55." CrispyQ Feb 2015 #199

It took a while, but new solar panels were put up in 2013-14 Bongo Prophet Feb 2015 #245

Thanks for posting. -nt CrispyQ Feb 2015 #248

I remember, "Don't change Dicks in the middle of the Screw. Vote for Nixon in '72." Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #29

I remember Dukakis and Mondale, but your premise is flawed dissentient Feb 2015 #30

Ssssh! This ia an "older and wiser" OP. Bonobo Feb 2015 #38

And he who doesn't learn lessons from history is bound to repeat them. n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #40

Do you consider FDR a liberal? Because he won 3 times dissentient Feb 2015 #46

He had a Democratic Congress and a packed Supreme Court. The rules have now been changed pnwmom Feb 2015 #77

you might want to google "packing the court". It didn't happen. Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #146

The extremes can never win on a national level. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #67

Personality is also a factor. And Hillary does not have a winning personality. Bill did. Hillary JDPriestly Feb 2015 #104

Mondale and Dukakis were extreme (in what way?) but Reagan and Junior Bush are moderate men of the TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #151

And the Third Way defines "extreme" as anything to the left of LondonReign2 Feb 2015 #195

+1. There seems to be some collection amnesia going around about what winter is coming Feb 2015 #267

Mondale and Dukakis were technocrats, not populists n/t eridani Feb 2015 #82

The Party flushed McGovern down the toilet is the actual story. And the rest weren't ND-Dem Feb 2015 #97

I first heard that stale Third Way talking point ("too liberal") from jiacinto Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2015 #117

yeah. Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #147

I remember DUgosh Feb 2015 #32

I don't believe that the Country is Center rbrnmw Feb 2015 #33

The problem might be hackable voting machines... blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #52

possibly but explain 08 and 12 rbrnmw Feb 2015 #57

Who is to say they weren't laundry_queen Feb 2015 #91

Last November Oregon had 70% turnout, Democratic victory, the midterm before that, 2010 we Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #170

as someone laundry_queen Feb 2015 #251

My take is that after 2000 & 2004, TPTB knew the election better look legit, CrispyQ Feb 2015 #201

And turnout is down because the Dems lack that old fighting spirit Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2015 #119

I remember them all. ColesCountyDem Feb 2015 #35

No Way! ProfessorGAC Feb 2015 #188

I'm so old... ColesCountyDem Feb 2015 #208

I remember 8yrs out of life and expectations is a long time.... Historic NY Feb 2015 #36

disagree Barrack Obama was not the most centrist candidate jimlup Feb 2015 #45

Ah, great. A hippie punching thread. blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #54

. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #58

Ignore the OP rpannier Feb 2015 #68

"Don't blame me, I'm from Massachusetts!" MADem Feb 2015 #55

i'm that old barbtries Feb 2015 #56

These are an over simplification of how politics works. Most of the liberals you mentioned lost craigmatic Feb 2015 #60

Nice analysis rpannier Feb 2015 #70

+1, especially "elections are about timing and issues". n/t winter is coming Feb 2015 #93

Marriage equality happened/is happening at the state level and in the courts. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #62

The OP is generally disingenuous Fumesucker Feb 2015 #69

I'm old enough to remember most of those elections rpannier Feb 2015 #64

How many DUers are old enough to have experienced our bad losses? aftab267 Feb 2015 #66

Welcome to DU,aftab267! n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #78

If things were not so hideous for so many I would agree Tsiyu Feb 2015 #72

Great contribution to the discussion. Thanks. nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #76

Thank you. nt Tsiyu Feb 2015 #140

I remember 68 and 72 but was not politically aware Skittles Feb 2015 #74

That is one really fucked-up view of history starroute Feb 2015 #83

Yup it was Law & Order......... Historic NY Feb 2015 #174

Bobby would have easily beat Nixon. That's when everything changed.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2015 #85

Once more I must say, I doubt Bobby would have been nominated rurallib Feb 2015 #165

"if he had shown superior vote getting power in the primaries." Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2015 #211

what common tack do you see in those losses? liberal left-wingdom? carter? dukakis? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #87

Excellent post! n/t dreamnightwind Feb 2015 #110

I remembered the general lack of party support, but Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2015 #118

every one of these is a lie MisterP Feb 2015 #88

I remember way back to Truman's victory -- unexpected but a victory. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #89

Anything before Clinton predates me. herding cats Feb 2015 #94

I will never be a centrist. Blue_In_AK Feb 2015 #98

Carter didn't lose because of a "challenge from the left in the primaries" Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #105

Not to mention the October Surprise Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2015 #109

The release of the hostages on Inauguration Day 1981 Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #132

You mean the way that Mondale and Dukakis ran cringeworthy bad campaigns? Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2015 #106

Think you're implying the wrong lessons to be learned from your examples lexington filly Feb 2015 #111

Yeah, look at THE ISSUES Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2015 #116

+whatever. Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #149

Obama was pretty much the nail in the coffin for the Blue Dog Democrat. alp227 Feb 2015 #115

Loved saying bye-bye to my district's Blue Dog :-) lexington filly Feb 2015 #120

Ah, yes, celebrating defeat. The opposite of the 50 state strategy. joshcryer Feb 2015 #128

Hillary fans have nothing but dishonest sales pitches about why we should move to the right. /nt Marr Feb 2015 #124

+ 1 trillion LondonReign2 Feb 2015 #197

yes. Started voting in '61 oldandhappy Feb 2015 #127

Sure, we can go ahead and forget the assassination of RFK, Nixon's Vietnam talk sabotage, villager Feb 2015 #129

I remember when Nixon won. I was a kid. Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2015 #130

In your guts you know he's nuts.. Fumesucker Feb 2015 #150

I mostly agree with some minor quibbles Algernon Moncrieff Feb 2015 #131

When you look back the only election we lost that we should have won is 00. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #164

Correct Algernon Moncrieff Feb 2015 #176

Huh? The Gary Hart/Donna Rice thing happened in 1987. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #169

Age does bad things to the brain Algernon Moncrieff Feb 2015 #175

Good luck with your purge RandiFan1290 Feb 2015 #137

Where did I say anything about a "purge"? MohRokTah Feb 2015 #142

I was there for all of them. I will vote for the Democratic candidate. Sancho Feb 2015 #138

I'm 66 charles d Feb 2015 #152

I remember some of them davidpdx Feb 2015 #153

I remember all of those, LWolf Feb 2015 #154

Ah, making sure we've got 'Blame the Left' all ready for 2016. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #157

. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #163

Carter '80 was my first presidential vote mcar Feb 2015 #158

Now, THAT is fucking awesome! The liberal left has been responsible for ALL losses! Well done! djean111 Feb 2015 #159

I don't think the post is saying that.... Historic NY Feb 2015 #177

Nowadays the bashing comes from the Third Way, which has successfully taken over the Democratic djean111 Feb 2015 #179

I think those who are to the left of Thrid Way are making a huge error by constantly monitizing and Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #183

I am saying those rights are/were of negligible value TO THE THIRD WAY. djean111 Feb 2015 #200

+1% (snark) leveymg Feb 2015 #181

More tired left-bashing ....... marmar Feb 2015 #162

You give me marriage equality? Please stop that bullshit. Marriage equality is a result of hard Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #167

+1-- the very last. And they did it when it became politically advantageous. Marr Feb 2015 #217

So, MohRokTah - on which issues specifically do you suggest we "find common ground" bullwinkle428 Feb 2015 #168

I remember them all. MineralMan Feb 2015 #173

I knew a lot of dems who voted for Reagan in '80 & CrispyQ Feb 2015 #185

Do you think Muskie would have been able to beat Nixon? I've asked this question before, but never Chathamization Feb 2015 #186

The McGovern campaign was the first one I worked on... Cooley Hurd Feb 2015 #189

"'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." - Alfred Lord Tennyson Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #190

My earliest political memory is anti-war protests against Vietnam. closeupready Feb 2015 #194

Typical of today's DU, an OP bashing "the left" and full of distortions gets over 50 recs... Fumesucker Feb 2015 #198

At least they were pretty quiet about it. Because the OP was thoroughly debunked in many posts. ieoeja Feb 2015 #239

Hell yes I see a pattern. 99Forever Feb 2015 #205

The only people who can rightfully be called "DINO" MohRokTah Feb 2015 #207

you can keep telling that to the empty bleacher seats. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #212

And some people have a MUCH LOWER... 99Forever Feb 2015 #215

ANYBODY who calls Hillary Clinton a "DINO" is extremist. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #218

That's your opinion. 99Forever Feb 2015 #219

"That was a landslide that made me afraid to ever admit I was a Democrat in my local school." KamaAina Feb 2015 #213

GIVE ME MY PONY DAMMIT!!! /sarcasm <--- cause this is needed around here uponit7771 Feb 2015 #220

P.S. We did win with Gore in 2000. KamaAina Feb 2015 #223

Nader kept it close enough in Florida for the outcome we had. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #224

I don't remember all of them firsthand tabbycat31 Feb 2015 #225

I've been involved in every Presidential campaign since... DonViejo Feb 2015 #227

I would say that Barack Obama is certainly the most liberal president since 1960. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #228

Humphrey would have been had he been elected but, DonViejo Feb 2015 #229

I can think of three others who would have been had they been elected. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #231

Oh, please... Hissyspit Feb 2015 #232

. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #234

There is plenty of explanation why by other posters in this thread. Hissyspit Feb 2015 #235

And you call my post bullshit? MohRokTah Feb 2015 #236

OH NO!!!!!! Hissyspit Feb 2015 #237

Thanks. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #238

I'm Old Enough oldlib2 Feb 2015 #243

So, what do you suggest we do when our wins are losses too? TBF Feb 2015 #247

I remember them all, but I have a confession . . . Vinca Feb 2015 #249

It's easy for people to fall into that. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #250

I remember them all. SummerSnow Feb 2015 #252

Don't you DINOs have any shame at all about lying? Doctor_J Feb 2015 #253

Ad hominems and epithets. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #254

You haven't bothered to reply to my post - TBF Feb 2015 #255

There are hundreds of posts in this thread MohRokTah Feb 2015 #256

Of course not - TBF Feb 2015 #266

"pretend their decimation of the party over the last 2 decades never happened" = indeed. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #259

Yup, I remember it all. n/t. whathehell Feb 2015 #258

Moi, aussi. McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #261

My first vote was 88 rbrnmw Feb 2015 #264

The way I remember it fadedrose Feb 2015 #269

yes, and I'm old enough to remember when there were liberal Republicans Douglas Carpenter Feb 2015 #270