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arendt

(5,078 posts)

97. FDR was in an alliance w Stalin because - pragmatism

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:25 PM

Feb 2015

I am deeply offended, but hardly surprised, at the non-stop name-calling that greeted a post that tries to point out that sometimes (actually, a lot of times) the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Hasn't that been our strategy in the Middle East? The Saudis are fundamentalist, misogynist funders of Taliban, Al Qaida, and now ISIS; but the US claims them as allies and honorable beheaders.

Our policy if full of contradictions for pragmatic reasons.

I have not heard anyone but the OP discuss pragmatic reasons why the Russians are doing the Left services, whether they intend to or not.

I long since gave up arguing about Russia on this board. The attitude here can be summed up by:

Hitler was a vegetarian; therefore, all vegetarians are Nazis.

Just substitue Putin for Hitler and pro-BRICS for vegetarianism.

It is the same kind of guilt by association that Joe McCarthy used to destroy an active Left in America.

But, you name callers. Go ahead. Have a blast. I'm sure the neocon warmongers will praise your useful-idiotness for weeks to come.

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5 Reasons Why Leftists Should Defend Russia | New Eastern Outlook [View all] MattSh Feb 2015 OP

Only fascist assholes support Putin's despotic regime. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #1

All bun. No beef. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #2

Russia is a fascist oligarchy, a mafia state where critics of geek tragedy Feb 2015 #3

Your pantry overflows with insult rubbed tripe...impressive. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #6

I do not worry about offending fans of foreign dictators. nt geek tragedy Feb 2015 #7

The black hat versus the white hat world view is not uncommon. No worries. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #8

Hey if you're cool with fascism and bigotry you are geek tragedy Feb 2015 #9

Well, yes; in the past 24 hours your accusations about me have included: muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #50

what's odd is that Obama and Putin are pretty much enemies at this point nt geek tragedy Feb 2015 #66

All you are doing is switching the hats. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #68

This thread advocates a black hat vs white hat world view. Adrahil Feb 2015 #130

Oppressive and homophobic dictators Renew Deal Feb 2015 #17

Shadows of the former Mugabe fan club. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #30

And the Kim's Renew Deal Feb 2015 #37

Really? How do you feel about all of our dictator allies? I despise dictators, like the Saudis, eg, sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #135

Those are different, they are "pragmatic" leaders incrementally working for truth, justice, and the TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #181

I guess the Rubles keep you happy HERVEPA Feb 2015 #26

Indeed they do. Thousands of rubles per post, it is a living! Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #28

With the Russian economy tanking, I hope he's paying you enough. HERVEPA Feb 2015 #43

are you asking us to support Russia's anti-LGBT laws? CreekDog Feb 2015 #62

Putin is a dictator. That's all I need to know about him. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #24

+1000. Russia under Dictator Putin is a dictatorship and NO Leftists should support BlueCaliDem Feb 2015 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #25

That's about it. Daemonaquila Feb 2015 #32

where is this 'decent, progressive society' you speak of? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #48

Hi! Points to Dem. nt geek tragedy Feb 2015 #49

didn't answer the question. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #51

LOL, that rings a Bell! FSogol Feb 2015 #69

Maybe you could post some pics of smiling Russians? nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #52

also didn't answer the question. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #53

Answer your questions? I'll pass. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #58

Pyongyang. I thought you knew that? NuclearDem Feb 2015 #59

Just like Baltimore. nt geek tragedy Feb 2015 #64

Hey. Baltimore's got a great mayor. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #70

There's a history behind Baltimore geek tragedy Feb 2015 #73

yeah, and what does Stringer Bell have to say about that ... kwassa Feb 2015 #125

Correction... zappaman Feb 2015 #72

Russia does not want support from LGBT people, if they did they would not oppress our Russian Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #4

LGBT issues are just barely "tolerated" here.. got a Looooong, long way to go before there is actual 2banon Feb 2015 #109

Oh, what a bunch of horseshit. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #131

What exactly reads like "horseshit" to you? 2banon Feb 2015 #145

Alright, point by point. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #147

Excellent post. zappaman Feb 2015 #150

Devastating! Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #171

Some stats - which show USA is much better, and getting better, and Russia is getting worse muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #155

Don't tell the far-right in Europe. They totally support Russia and don't consider it 'liberal'. pampango Feb 2015 #5

Russian cash will allow Marine Le Pen’s Front National to take advantage of rivals’ woes.... Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #18

Also the far right here in the USA FLPanhandle Feb 2015 #36

Not true Cayenne Feb 2015 #90

Many half-witted idiots wish everyone would support the expansionist dreams of New Russia LanternWaste Feb 2015 #10

Oh of course! HappyMe Feb 2015 #13

A citizen of a country with 800+ military bases around the world calls another-- eridani Feb 2015 #31

It wasn't Russia back then. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #33

First of all, that the US is an expansionist and imperialist power NuclearDem Feb 2015 #35

O.M.G. Talk about giant heaps of "horsehit" (to use YOUR term)...LOL! 2banon Feb 2015 #146

Did you ever take a logic course in high school or college? NuclearDem Feb 2015 #148

To Wrap This Up. The TWISTED LOGIC employed in the context of East-West Imperialistic powers 2banon Feb 2015 #156

You must have me confused with somebody else. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #158

"Russia is actually contractionist" bobclark86 Feb 2015 #63

Evidence of plans to recolonize Poland, East Germany, etc? eridani Feb 2015 #138

Baby steps. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #149

How about Georgia and UKRAINE?!?! n/t bobclark86 Feb 2015 #153

If only that contractionism applied to Ukraine. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #71

so, so far in 10-20 years the mighty expansionist Russkies have managed to grab Crimea MisterP Feb 2015 #170

Yes, of course Crimea was "by the vote of the people" Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #178

The discussions of Crimea which conveniently fail to mention the mass deportation of the indigenous Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #225

Well, I'm not a Leftist, but I AM a Liberal and I DO believe in democracy... BlueCaliDem Feb 2015 #12

Oh, fuck off Draitser. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #14

The reactions in this thread give me hope BainsBane Feb 2015 #203

It's like the Tea Party. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #206

Anybody who defends leftynyc Feb 2015 #15

ROFL, looked up "Eric Draitser", what a piece snooper2 Feb 2015 #16

Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #19

The humiliating defeat of the Candyman at DeBaltsevo has showed the KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #23

There are still a thousand or so left behind hiding in the town...the rebels have shown mercy while the Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #27

I don't understand why your post above was hidden. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #168

Wow. That's some industrial grade horseshit right there. Throd Feb 2015 #20

I don't understand it either... Dr Hobbitstein Feb 2015 #21

Authoritarians. Same crowd that insists that Assad's regime was framed on chemical weapons, geek tragedy Feb 2015 #22

"Authoritarians"? I'm so confused by DU. Hekate Feb 2015 #161

Projection. Those who support/serve as apologists for Putink Gaddhafi, Assad, Maduro, etc geek tragedy Feb 2015 #173

There is a difference between "Leftists" and Liberal. William769 Feb 2015 #29

Very true communists in the former USSR were not liberals. Rex Feb 2015 #34

"leftists" in my book are just like communists. William769 Feb 2015 #39

Me either, they proved that an agrarian based society with a centralized government won't work. Rex Feb 2015 #40

Agreed on all counts. William769 Feb 2015 #41

The author of the OP is using the term "Leftist" simply as "Anti-Establishment" Maedhros Feb 2015 #55

Yup. Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #140

The only thing lefties should be doing, is denouncing Russia as a backwards state. Rex Feb 2015 #38

Seeing Russia as capatilist and revanchist isn't an "ideological posture." cemaphonic Feb 2015 #42

The Putin boot-lickers are a fucking disgrace to DU...nt SidDithers Feb 2015 #44

Agreed. eom MohRokTah Feb 2015 #47

True. They are worse than the chemtrail nonsense. FSogol Feb 2015 #93

+1 joshcryer Feb 2015 #136

A point. A definite point. nt Hekate Feb 2015 #162

3 Reasons Why Leftists Should Attack Russia | New KamaAina Outlook KamaAina Feb 2015 #45

DUzy! nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #75

Yeah, it is. Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #139

I'm getting to the point of wanting to hit something. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #152

I know the feeling! Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #172

Most of those would also fit ISIS. ileus Feb 2015 #46

Why this leftist refuses.: Russia's Anti-Gay Law, Spelled Out in Plain English Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #54

Russia's anti-women laws. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #57

So, MattSh - what is your motivation for posting this OP? Maedhros Feb 2015 #56

Putin apology, plain and simple. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #76

Oh, so I need a motivation now? MattSh Feb 2015 #77

Ah. Now I understand. Maedhros Feb 2015 #83

Don't go away mad... just go away you mean? MattSh Feb 2015 #87

That would suit many of us. Ethnonationalism is frowned upon here. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #100

Contrary to what you've might been told, the purpose of DU isn't to shit all over the USA. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #85

"the purpose of DU isn't to shit all over the USA." Number23 Feb 2015 #106

Thank you Hekate Feb 2015 #164

Thank you Hekate Feb 2015 #163

Piss poor social programs in the US does not constitute suppression of rights. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #94

Thank you Hekate Feb 2015 #165

Wow. That's a doozy. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #60

You'd be surprised how many folks on this planet share this view malaise Feb 2015 #61

The world has another superpower, it's called China. Russia as currently constituted has no geek tragedy Feb 2015 #65

Being contrarian can only get you so far. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #67

The world doesn't need any superpowers. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #96

No thanks. I'm good with not doing that. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Feb 2015 #74

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Feb 2015 #78

The Cold War is over, buddy. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #79

Maybe he was rooting for team USSR back in the day. Throd Feb 2015 #80

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Feb 2015 #86

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Feb 2015 #84

If he's not your buddy, then why did you call him "buddy"? zappaman Feb 2015 #124

The Putin boot-lickers speak with just1voice... SidDithers Feb 2015 #82

What a website - a Russian self-proclaimed partner of the far right anti-semitic 'Veterans Today' muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #81

I'm proud of being a DUer when I see how few are taken in by this garbage. stevenleser Feb 2015 #88

Much like the Tea Party, Putin apology is a noisy fringe minority here at DU. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #91

I love the section about "Defending Historical Memory" Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #89

And the implication that building economic and diplomatic ties to Ukraine (and elsewhere in E Europe cemaphonic Feb 2015 #92

It reminds of how right wingers used to shit all over France NuclearDem Feb 2015 #95

FDR was in an alliance w Stalin because - pragmatism arendt Feb 2015 #97

Ho boy. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #99

I never said defend Russia, I said let them do our work. arendt Feb 2015 #104

"I think the Ukrainians are Nazis funded by US neocon Nazis." Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #114

See Right Sector. See Bandera. See Ukr govt. arendt Feb 2015 #115

Psst. Right Sector isn't part of the Ukrainian government. Never was, actually. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #116

So the Russian-speakers in Novorussia, how do they fit... arendt Feb 2015 #120

Not sure what your ultimate argument/endgame is here. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #174

Do you not read what I write? arendt Feb 2015 #179

Funny thing. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #187

It's easy to be consistent when you're telling the truth arendt Feb 2015 #192

This message was self-deleted by its author arendt Feb 2015 #197

Self-delete is your friend. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #204

Yes. What happened with Maidan was not a coup, period. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #198

The CIA has been running coups since 1953 arendt Feb 2015 #214

If you have actual evidence that what happened in Ukraine was a coup, bring it. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #216

I will leave the last 10,000 words to you. arendt Feb 2015 #217

So in short, your answer is no. No, you don't have any evidence to support.... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #218

Here's some IMF "evidence". Its the looting, stupid. arendt Feb 2015 #222

You get points for creativity, but that's about it. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #223

This message was self-deleted by its author arendt Feb 2015 #196

So, again... NuclearDem Feb 2015 #118

Right. It's all so simple. Not. arendt Feb 2015 #119

Wow, glad to see your true colors finally fly. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #121

NO. I have priorities. Stopping neocons is #1. arendt Feb 2015 #122

Yeah, because you can't work to fix both anti-LGBT discrimination NuclearDem Feb 2015 #123

If the way to fix it is to start WW3 w Russia, count me out n/t arendt Feb 2015 #128

Oh for...this is getting old. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #133

Yeah, this idea that defending Putin is bravely standing up for peace cemaphonic Feb 2015 #134

Yeah, who gives a fuck about LGBTs in the Ukraine anyway? zappaman Feb 2015 #126

yeah, who gives a shit about neocon warmongers burning our taxes. arendt Feb 2015 #127

This post boils down to (1) Russia's government is awesome; and (2) the USA is inherently evil. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #101

Absolute bullshit plus name-calling arendt Feb 2015 #102

You're the one endorsing an article that calls for leftists to line up against their own country and geek tragedy Feb 2015 #107

Does anyone remember history? Putin is a spy and a gangster, not a Nazi. arendt Feb 2015 #108

No one is advocating war with Russia. But this article is stating leftists should 'support' Putin. geek tragedy Feb 2015 #110

I never said support him. I just said let it alone. arendt Feb 2015 #112

Well, you did "like" the OP.... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #177

Its a long post that contains SOME good ideas. arendt Feb 2015 #180

Exactly how have I taken the "Curtis LeMay position"? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #182

To quote you, what is your endgame here? arendt Feb 2015 #193

All I've ever done is demand that facts be presented, and not unsupported conspiracy theories. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #200

Dang. Replied to myself. This is to alert you to look. n/t arendt Feb 2015 #194

This message was self-deleted by its author arendt Feb 2015 #195

It is dishonest of you to characterize a rejection of the OP's call for supporting Russia as a call Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #111

Looks like "sarcasm" has gone the way of "nuance" arendt Feb 2015 #113

So you post bullshit and when called on it you get snarky. How impressive. Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #224

L-O-Fuckin'-L...That blogger must have nothing but rainbows and unicorns in his world Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #98

So Putin could USE us to steal ANOTHER 100billion from Russia? blm Feb 2015 #103

Fuck that, to put it politely. Quantess Feb 2015 #105

The only group that should defend Russia is the Westboro Baptist Church! NutmegYankee Feb 2015 #117

Oh for fuck's sake.... Adrahil Feb 2015 #129

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #132

Freedom Fries! nt CJCRANE Feb 2015 #141

Looks like the "hate Russia" propaganda is full tilt Ramses Feb 2015 #137

"Leftists"* shouldn't defend Putin or the war profiteers. CJCRANE Feb 2015 #142

This thread showcases why some 'leftists' are fucking awful hypocrites. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #143

Also, these pro-Putin assholes aren't on the first flight to Russia to live in that paradise. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #144

I almost agree NuclearDem Feb 2015 #151

This message was self-deleted by its author CJCRANE Feb 2015 #157

Really. damn the hypocrisy.. thanks for pointing that out, DI. Not purists when it comes to human Cha Feb 2015 #184

I'm with the majority of Europeans Depaysement Feb 2015 #154

I think it's obvious that Russia is supporting the Rebels. Savannahmann Feb 2015 #159

Homophobic laws. Anti-Semitism. Mysogyny. Prison for Pussy Riot. Expansionism. Hekate Feb 2015 #160

Reading the full article, the only real reason presented to "support Russia" salib Feb 2015 #166

....is this supposed to be a joke? Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #167

Sadly, a few people here don't see it as a joke. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #175

The Putin apologists have been all over this site for some time now BainsBane Feb 2015 #205

LOL. If Russia under Putin is anti-imperialist, then Adolf Hitler is a champion of religious freedom Downtown Hound Feb 2015 #169

Translation: You MUST support Russia because you cannot possibly side with the US "empire". DetlefK Feb 2015 #176

" " " " n/t MBS Feb 2015 #183

I see no reason to SUPPORT a bigoted, authoritarian, gangster capitalist government TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #185

I imagine this thread has likely derailed a long time ago JonLP24 Feb 2015 #186

Turnout in the past two elections was lower in the East for a pretty glaring reason. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #188

I hate when my browser crashes during a post JonLP24 Feb 2015 #189

There was no way around the issue, though. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #190

They initiated the whole fleeing the country thing JonLP24 Feb 2015 #191

Continuation of discussion in locked thread BainsBane Feb 2015 #199

The OP's current state of residence clearly has zero influence over his opinion of his neighbors. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #201

He cited it to validate his views BainsBane Feb 2015 #202

Ethnonationalism is really its own ideology. The Putin loyalists are not left or right, just geek tragedy Feb 2015 #207

There's some Orwellian doublespeak if I ever heard it. PoliticalPothead Feb 2015 #208

When has Russia hinted about it's desire to annex the Ukraine? BainsBane Feb 2015 #209

More propaganda. PoliticalPothead Feb 2015 #210

What did the article say? BainsBane Feb 2015 #213

Buddy. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #211

Not to mention the fact the UN has procedures for independence votes BainsBane Feb 2015 #215

Leftists are not fascist bigots, so it just boggles the mind why a leftist would defend William769 Feb 2015 #212

I suppose this post is marginally better Codeine Feb 2015 #219

Come on, you know he wouldn't do tha--oh yeah, he did. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2015 #221

Don't fret. Putin has support from the far right BainsBane Feb 2015 #220