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cascadiance

(19,537 posts)

162. Doesn't seem like Obama's doing a very good job compared to Bernie...

Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:56 PM

Feb 2015

... and if he's working so much for us than Bernie is, then why isn't he coming out and telling us why this bill is so good for us and give us the details of why we should be wanting it to pass! Bernie only has to "play" to Vermonters, assuming all of those doubters say that he's not really running for president. Obama still is playing to all of us as an audience isn't he? Or are are you already noting that he's being a lame duck for everyone except those that are probably promising him a golden retirement somewhere.

Sorry, but I'm just not buying it and neither are most of the rest of us here!

What boards set up with even more power than the WTO that TPP proposes to sue our government over laws they don't like and the ability to throw them aside isn't about taking our sovereignty away is something that even kids in grade school should probably understand if explained to them the way the media should be doing.

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Fast-Track Treason and the Coming Corporate Coup: Calling Out TPP Traitors [View all] 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 OP

Let's be real -- As of yet, Obama does not have Fast-Track authority, and he won't likely get it. Hoyt Feb 2015 #1

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #4

If this trade deal is so awesome and clearly necessary, why all the secrecy 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #5

It's not finished. Tribunal process will likely be same as that in other trade deals Hoyt Feb 2015 #9

Well, I would rather Obama does it than Jeb Bush or H. Clinton 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #10

It will be when finished, even under fast-track Congress must approve, and Hoyt Feb 2015 #12

"Once it's completed" 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #15

Doesn't work like the latter, but keep exaggerating. Hoyt Feb 2015 #17

Does it work like the former or a Third Way? aspirant Feb 2015 #21

I would suggest looking it up, you might feel a little better about what MIGHT happen, assuming Hoyt Feb 2015 #23

In the second place aspirant Feb 2015 #24

I'm saying what Obama said, he's seeing what he can get. Hoyt Feb 2015 #26

So aspirant Feb 2015 #30

A good deal IS vital to our future. A bad deal isn't. Hoyt Feb 2015 #32

Upon final draft aspirant Feb 2015 #33

If it's a GOOD agreement, it wouldn't bother me. I'd hate to miss out on Hoyt Feb 2015 #34

Is a treasonous agreement a good deal? aspirant Feb 2015 #38

Exaggerate much? If you want healthcare, safety nets, education, etc., long term, Hoyt Feb 2015 #40

Exaggerate a lot? aspirant Feb 2015 #43

Read up on tribunals and the types of cases involved. Hoyt Feb 2015 #48

Please explain aspirant Feb 2015 #51

It's time you research this yourself. Or, just keep fretting and spreading junk. Hoyt Feb 2015 #54

Do you think aspirant Feb 2015 #70

This is not treason. Do you even know what that means? Hoyt Feb 2015 #71

"override federal,state and local laws" says OP aspirant Feb 2015 #72

The tribunals don't override "federal, state and local laws." Would like to see an example if Hoyt Feb 2015 #73

TPP isn't passed yet (NAFTA on steriods) aspirant Feb 2015 #76

Tribunals are the same. "On steriods" means Mexico, Canada PLUS other countries. Hoyt Feb 2015 #77

If America doesn't come first to you, aspirant Feb 2015 #83

Please show me one case where a tribunal has overridden "federal, state or local" law.. Hoyt Feb 2015 #84

I'm waiting for your TPP page # that defines tribunals aspirant Feb 2015 #88

Not finished yet (which you know), but no nation is going to agree to what you are spreading. Hoyt Feb 2015 #89

How do you know aspirant Feb 2015 #90

No nation is going to agree to the BS you are spreading. Hoyt Feb 2015 #91

Is one person's BS aspirant Feb 2015 #93

Yes we can, you obviously didn't study why we can't have dolphin safe tuna labels, huh? cascadiance Feb 2015 #167

As you will see from subsequent appeals, US law was not overturned. The dispute Hoyt Feb 2015 #172

"If America doesn't come first to you, then you hate America." USA! USA! USA! pampango Feb 2015 #107

Oh so the American people should come second third ,last aspirant Feb 2015 #111

Of course not. No more than whites, men, straights, etc. should come second, third or last. pampango Feb 2015 #112

So in what place aspirant Feb 2015 #114

Why does there have to be a 'place' for Blacks, gays, women or the "American home team"? pampango Feb 2015 #117

Do you know your place? aspirant Feb 2015 #120

My 'place' is shared with everyone regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, nationality or sexual pampango Feb 2015 #146

My place is with the People aspirant Feb 2015 #151

It is precisely treason. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #98

Aren't international agreements usually 'non-amendable' in congress? pampango Feb 2015 #35

It's the TPP treason, not Iran aspirant Feb 2015 #37

So some international agreements are 'non-amendable' and some are not? pampango Feb 2015 #45

The people and their employees, aspirant Feb 2015 #47

Thank you.. whathehell Feb 2015 #58

"ALL international agreements are amendable ..." Not they are not. pampango Feb 2015 #99

"Except when we give away our rights" Full quote please aspirant Feb 2015 #104

""TPP is a good idea" you mean these opinion surveys that are estimates or guesses at best?" pampango Feb 2015 #106

Opinion suveys SHOW aspirant Feb 2015 #109

I really doubt that Democrats are 'guessing' about their preferences as much as republicans are. pampango Feb 2015 #110

Maybe your confused aspirant Feb 2015 #113

International negotiations are ALWAYS handled by the executive branch. pampango Feb 2015 #118

I love all Americans aspirant Feb 2015 #122

Does that include Central Americans and South Americans or only USA Americans? USA! USA! pampango Feb 2015 #148

I'm for all people aspirant Feb 2015 #153

Should Congress have the right to CHANGE this agreement, to amend it, to iow, WRITE our Legislation, sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #69

Your argument is very naive. Pres Obama has been orchestrating this agreement. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #62

I think you are just unfairly bashing Obama.. Wait and see what if anything he endorses. Hoyt Feb 2015 #63

Oh plez spare me the "If you don't bow down, then you are bashing." Bullcrap. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #66

I don't think Obama is selling us down the river. Most who think he is, are Hoyt Feb 2015 #67

I'm sick of hearing "you must hate Obama" as a response to any suggestion of criticism or ND-Dem Feb 2015 #78

"Is a treasonous agreement a good deal?" Accusing him of negotiating 'treason' is not the same as pampango Feb 2015 #108

Do you pay that close attention to the Tea Party aspirant Feb 2015 #115

Any one who does not know that tea partiers accuse Obama of treason is not paying pampango Feb 2015 #116

Paying attention on a regular basis? Hmmm aspirant Feb 2015 #119

Spouting their talking points? Hmmmm. n/t pampango Feb 2015 #121

Is the Tea Party calling the TPP treasonous? aspirant Feb 2015 #123

They regularly accuse Obama of being a liberal, open-borders, globalist, traitor. Check it yourself. pampango Feb 2015 #127

I'll let you do all the RW checking aspirant Feb 2015 #131

You don't care what the far-right says. If blissful ignorance is your preferred state, be my guest. pampango Feb 2015 #133

I'm glad we have someone aspirant Feb 2015 #134

I agree that what the RW spouts is jibberish. pampango Feb 2015 #144

Pampango, I think you mean well but here our paths split. aspirant Feb 2015 #154

we have every right to question or criticise an agreement that reportedly cedes our and ND-Dem Feb 2015 #125

I agree. We all have the right to question every policy put forward by anyone. pampango Feb 2015 #128

the agreement was described as traitorous in your excerpt, not the president. and if it ND-Dem Feb 2015 #129

I disagree. Questioning a policy is appropriate. We all do it. DU would not exist without that. pampango Feb 2015 #132

You don't know him any better than I. I don't hate him but expect him to represent the lower classes rhett o rick Feb 2015 #130

He's done none of those things. In fact, the so-called Catfood Commission proposed raising Social Hoyt Feb 2015 #135

So you claim that the Chained CPI would have been beneficial to the middle and lower classes? rhett o rick Feb 2015 #138

Yes, if Social Security payments were increased for those on low end, it would by definition help Hoyt Feb 2015 #141

I will be glad to show you mine (link) if you show me yours. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #160

Wheeler proposal to ban fast-lanes. Hoyt Feb 2015 #165

You are changing the game. I claimed that Wheeler originally proposed to give the rhett o rick Feb 2015 #171

It didn't happen in the end, and likely never was a serious proposal. Hoyt Feb 2015 #173

I can't believe you. Tom Wheeler and the two Republicans make a proposal to allow the rhett o rick Feb 2015 #174

You obviously don't read widely if you think CS Monitor is conservative. Fact is, Hoyt Feb 2015 #175

Anyone else note the irony of Hoyt's avatar? brentspeak Feb 2015 #139

Woody, would care about the poor doing better. In today's economy, that means helping produce Hoyt Feb 2015 #142

Yes, Woody Guthrie singing along with pharma CEOs and the US Chamber of Commerce brentspeak Feb 2015 #149

That was the 1930s. Unfortunately, things are different now. Arlo Guthrie, Hoyt Feb 2015 #150

Obama put the Social Security cut in his own fucking budget, your attack is a delusional TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #161

"...he's seeing what he can get" 2naSalit Feb 2015 #124

Bingo Populist_Prole Feb 2015 #136

There are legitimate reasons to mistrust President Obama on this Dwight42 Feb 2015 #28

I read his response, it's not very encouraging when we allow Foreign Corporations to write our laws sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #68

+1 - remember the claims for transparency? erronis Feb 2015 #20

But he wants it, so what does that make him? FiveGoodMen Feb 2015 #29

He wants it if he gets a good deal, you should too because Congress will play Hoyt Feb 2015 #31

We The People aspirant Feb 2015 #36

It's not likely to impact our "sovereignty" as much as you think. And it Hoyt Feb 2015 #39

"overrule federal, state and local laws" aspirant Feb 2015 #41

No it does not. The "tribunals" which are in existing agreements, including European Union, Hoyt Feb 2015 #42

I quoted the OP aspirant Feb 2015 #44

Fast Track authority must be granted to the President by Congress. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #147

I thought it was treason to interfere with the President's foreign policy initiatives? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #2

Well, once US sovereignty is deliberately & completely undermined by corporate Int'l tribunals.. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #3

You mean like Boehner and Netanyahu? aspirant Feb 2015 #6

"We need the Shock and Awe within the power of the words." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #7

Using these generic, fluffy words (TPP, Fast Track, Investor State) aspirant Feb 2015 #13

thank you guillaumeb Feb 2015 #27

"Liars and thieves like to hide what they are doing with jargon" +100 ND-Dem Feb 2015 #79

plus we do not want to call them liars and thieves guillaumeb Feb 2015 #126

The RW is also accusing Obama of treason on other issues. Using treason as a mere rhetorical Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #92

No, aspirant Feb 2015 #94

One side yells, "Obama is a traitor for the TPP!" the other side yells, "Obama is a traitor for his Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #95

Two distinct sides, RW and Populist Dems, glad you agree aspirant Feb 2015 #96

Hey, I never said the man was immune from pursuing bad policies and doing so in a bad way. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #97

If we allow aspirant Feb 2015 #101

Then what is to stop the RW from using the word treason? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #103

I could care less aspirant Feb 2015 #105

Brave New World Order Thing globalist endgame Octafish Feb 2015 #8

+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #100

I remember when the word "treason" used to mean something NuclearDem Feb 2015 #11

What does it mean now? aspirant Feb 2015 #14

Betraying one's country by secretly ceding its sovereignty to global Oligarchs 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #16

Have you read about tribunals and looked at the cases that arose under NAFTA. Hoyt Feb 2015 #49

TPP is not NAFTA 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #52

The tribunals are the same.. Read for yourself. Jeeeez. Hoyt Feb 2015 #53

Then please explain why Labor & Environmental advocates aren't championing TPP 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #55

Truthfully, it's better for them to bash Obama and obsfucate. Hoyt Feb 2015 #56

Awesome talking point, but 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #57

Good luck. I think you'd be better off promoting trade and taxing the heck out of those Hoyt Feb 2015 #59

Wow. nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #60

+100. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #80

Oh, now...... DeSwiss Feb 2015 #18

I agree that support for the TPP is treason Jack Rabbit Feb 2015 #19

and a big K & R! n/t wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #22

Now, now, it hasn't happened yet. winter is coming Feb 2015 #25

+100 good one. nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #46

Huge K&R woo me with science Feb 2015 #50

Once Hillary is anointed and coronated, we wont be able to talk about issues like this Ramses Feb 2015 #61

Even Robert Reich thinks it's a bad deal Populist_Prole Feb 2015 #64

I like Robert Reich 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #65

Robert still says NAFTA was good, because his name is all over it. Hoyt Feb 2015 #75

"I still regret not doing more to strengthen the North American Free Trade Act's labor and ND-Dem Feb 2015 #81

And Obama is trying to strengthen the labor and environmental side of TPP which Hoyt Feb 2015 #82

Why would I give anyone credit when everything's done in secret? I don't give reich much ND-Dem Feb 2015 #85

You sure seem to know that "secret" agreement is going to screw us. Hoyt Feb 2015 #86

good. go to bed. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #87

But you seem to "know" that this secret agreement is going to be "good" for us. cascadiance Feb 2015 #152

It's done like that because complicated negotiations won't accomplish anything if done in Hoyt Feb 2015 #155

But who's doing most of the "negotiations" in secret? Corporate entities! That is NOT democracy! cascadiance Feb 2015 #156

Wrong again. Corporations are not negotiating the TPP. It's government officials from the various Hoyt Feb 2015 #157

So basically you are calling Senator Bernie Sanders a liar then... cascadiance Feb 2015 #158

Bernie plays to his audience. I think you should learn to read. Hoyt Feb 2015 #159

Doesn't seem like Obama's doing a very good job compared to Bernie... cascadiance Feb 2015 #162

He told us few days ago. You were more concerned with supposed threats to "national sovereignty" Hoyt Feb 2015 #163

Did he tell us why he needs Fast Track Authority to pass this bill and it should be done in secret? cascadiance Feb 2015 #164

Actually there are people who are against anything Obama does, even when beneficial. Hoyt Feb 2015 #166

You and others ARE NOT explaining what is beneficial, just playing the "hater" card! TYPICAL! cascadiance Feb 2015 #168

So what? Populist_Prole Feb 2015 #137

So, what happened between June 2008 and now? Hoyt Feb 2015 #140

He wised up Populist_Prole Feb 2015 #143

No he didn't. What he said is still true, he's just in a position where there's no income/recognitio Hoyt Feb 2015 #145

K&R.... ND-Dem Feb 2015 #74

We do not want the fucking thing! Enthusiast Feb 2015 #102

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #169

Throwing around the terms "treason" and "traitor" is irresponsible. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #170

Ceding US sovereignty to a pack of Int'l Corporate Oligarchs 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #177

No, it doesn't. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #178

and don't forget aspirant Feb 2015 #179

destroy the snowball before it gains momentum! down with TPP! NuttyFluffers Feb 2015 #176