General Discussion

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)

173. It didn't happen in the end, and likely never was a serious proposal.

Sat Feb 21, 2015, 12:52 AM

Feb 2015

Last edited Sat Feb 21, 2015, 02:25 AM - Edit history (1)

The chained-cpi proposal had protections for those on lower end of scale.

And, don't forget the ACA provided a big savings in out-of-pocket drug costs that would more than offset years of compounded reductions under a Chained-CPI. That's another thing you have to keep in mind, it's foolish to look at one factor in isolation from what else impacts a group of people.
http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/0411/Social-Security-proposal-from-Obama-How-would-it-affect-you

Also review comments on SSA.. website.

Truthfully, if we'd made the relatively minor adjustments, the roughly 20% cut expected in disability payments in the next year or two if Congress doesn't act, would have been avoided.

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Highlight:

Fast-Track Treason and the Coming Corporate Coup: Calling Out TPP Traitors [View all] 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 OP

Let's be real -- As of yet, Obama does not have Fast-Track authority, and he won't likely get it. Hoyt Feb 2015 #1

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #4

If this trade deal is so awesome and clearly necessary, why all the secrecy 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #5

It's not finished. Tribunal process will likely be same as that in other trade deals Hoyt Feb 2015 #9

Well, I would rather Obama does it than Jeb Bush or H. Clinton 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #10

It will be when finished, even under fast-track Congress must approve, and Hoyt Feb 2015 #12

"Once it's completed" 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #15

Doesn't work like the latter, but keep exaggerating. Hoyt Feb 2015 #17

Does it work like the former or a Third Way? aspirant Feb 2015 #21

I would suggest looking it up, you might feel a little better about what MIGHT happen, assuming Hoyt Feb 2015 #23

In the second place aspirant Feb 2015 #24

I'm saying what Obama said, he's seeing what he can get. Hoyt Feb 2015 #26

So aspirant Feb 2015 #30

A good deal IS vital to our future. A bad deal isn't. Hoyt Feb 2015 #32

Upon final draft aspirant Feb 2015 #33

If it's a GOOD agreement, it wouldn't bother me. I'd hate to miss out on Hoyt Feb 2015 #34

Is a treasonous agreement a good deal? aspirant Feb 2015 #38

Exaggerate much? If you want healthcare, safety nets, education, etc., long term, Hoyt Feb 2015 #40

Exaggerate a lot? aspirant Feb 2015 #43

Read up on tribunals and the types of cases involved. Hoyt Feb 2015 #48

Please explain aspirant Feb 2015 #51

It's time you research this yourself. Or, just keep fretting and spreading junk. Hoyt Feb 2015 #54

Do you think aspirant Feb 2015 #70

This is not treason. Do you even know what that means? Hoyt Feb 2015 #71

"override federal,state and local laws" says OP aspirant Feb 2015 #72

The tribunals don't override "federal, state and local laws." Would like to see an example if Hoyt Feb 2015 #73

TPP isn't passed yet (NAFTA on steriods) aspirant Feb 2015 #76

Tribunals are the same. "On steriods" means Mexico, Canada PLUS other countries. Hoyt Feb 2015 #77

If America doesn't come first to you, aspirant Feb 2015 #83

Please show me one case where a tribunal has overridden "federal, state or local" law.. Hoyt Feb 2015 #84

I'm waiting for your TPP page # that defines tribunals aspirant Feb 2015 #88

Not finished yet (which you know), but no nation is going to agree to what you are spreading. Hoyt Feb 2015 #89

How do you know aspirant Feb 2015 #90

No nation is going to agree to the BS you are spreading. Hoyt Feb 2015 #91

Is one person's BS aspirant Feb 2015 #93

Yes we can, you obviously didn't study why we can't have dolphin safe tuna labels, huh? cascadiance Feb 2015 #167

As you will see from subsequent appeals, US law was not overturned. The dispute Hoyt Feb 2015 #172

"If America doesn't come first to you, then you hate America." USA! USA! USA! pampango Feb 2015 #107

Oh so the American people should come second third ,last aspirant Feb 2015 #111

Of course not. No more than whites, men, straights, etc. should come second, third or last. pampango Feb 2015 #112

So in what place aspirant Feb 2015 #114

Why does there have to be a 'place' for Blacks, gays, women or the "American home team"? pampango Feb 2015 #117

Do you know your place? aspirant Feb 2015 #120

My 'place' is shared with everyone regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, nationality or sexual pampango Feb 2015 #146

My place is with the People aspirant Feb 2015 #151

It is precisely treason. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #98

Aren't international agreements usually 'non-amendable' in congress? pampango Feb 2015 #35

It's the TPP treason, not Iran aspirant Feb 2015 #37

So some international agreements are 'non-amendable' and some are not? pampango Feb 2015 #45

The people and their employees, aspirant Feb 2015 #47

Thank you.. whathehell Feb 2015 #58

"ALL international agreements are amendable ..." Not they are not. pampango Feb 2015 #99

"Except when we give away our rights" Full quote please aspirant Feb 2015 #104

""TPP is a good idea" you mean these opinion surveys that are estimates or guesses at best?" pampango Feb 2015 #106

Opinion suveys SHOW aspirant Feb 2015 #109

I really doubt that Democrats are 'guessing' about their preferences as much as republicans are. pampango Feb 2015 #110

Maybe your confused aspirant Feb 2015 #113

International negotiations are ALWAYS handled by the executive branch. pampango Feb 2015 #118

I love all Americans aspirant Feb 2015 #122

Does that include Central Americans and South Americans or only USA Americans? USA! USA! pampango Feb 2015 #148

I'm for all people aspirant Feb 2015 #153

Should Congress have the right to CHANGE this agreement, to amend it, to iow, WRITE our Legislation, sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #69

Your argument is very naive. Pres Obama has been orchestrating this agreement. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #62

I think you are just unfairly bashing Obama.. Wait and see what if anything he endorses. Hoyt Feb 2015 #63

Oh plez spare me the "If you don't bow down, then you are bashing." Bullcrap. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #66

I don't think Obama is selling us down the river. Most who think he is, are Hoyt Feb 2015 #67

I'm sick of hearing "you must hate Obama" as a response to any suggestion of criticism or ND-Dem Feb 2015 #78

"Is a treasonous agreement a good deal?" Accusing him of negotiating 'treason' is not the same as pampango Feb 2015 #108

Do you pay that close attention to the Tea Party aspirant Feb 2015 #115

Any one who does not know that tea partiers accuse Obama of treason is not paying pampango Feb 2015 #116

Paying attention on a regular basis? Hmmm aspirant Feb 2015 #119

Spouting their talking points? Hmmmm. n/t pampango Feb 2015 #121

Is the Tea Party calling the TPP treasonous? aspirant Feb 2015 #123

They regularly accuse Obama of being a liberal, open-borders, globalist, traitor. Check it yourself. pampango Feb 2015 #127

I'll let you do all the RW checking aspirant Feb 2015 #131

You don't care what the far-right says. If blissful ignorance is your preferred state, be my guest. pampango Feb 2015 #133

I'm glad we have someone aspirant Feb 2015 #134

I agree that what the RW spouts is jibberish. pampango Feb 2015 #144

Pampango, I think you mean well but here our paths split. aspirant Feb 2015 #154

we have every right to question or criticise an agreement that reportedly cedes our and ND-Dem Feb 2015 #125

I agree. We all have the right to question every policy put forward by anyone. pampango Feb 2015 #128

the agreement was described as traitorous in your excerpt, not the president. and if it ND-Dem Feb 2015 #129

I disagree. Questioning a policy is appropriate. We all do it. DU would not exist without that. pampango Feb 2015 #132

You don't know him any better than I. I don't hate him but expect him to represent the lower classes rhett o rick Feb 2015 #130

He's done none of those things. In fact, the so-called Catfood Commission proposed raising Social Hoyt Feb 2015 #135

So you claim that the Chained CPI would have been beneficial to the middle and lower classes? rhett o rick Feb 2015 #138

Yes, if Social Security payments were increased for those on low end, it would by definition help Hoyt Feb 2015 #141

I will be glad to show you mine (link) if you show me yours. rhett o rick Feb 2015 #160

Wheeler proposal to ban fast-lanes. Hoyt Feb 2015 #165

You are changing the game. I claimed that Wheeler originally proposed to give the rhett o rick Feb 2015 #171

It didn't happen in the end, and likely never was a serious proposal. Hoyt Feb 2015 #173

I can't believe you. Tom Wheeler and the two Republicans make a proposal to allow the rhett o rick Feb 2015 #174

You obviously don't read widely if you think CS Monitor is conservative. Fact is, Hoyt Feb 2015 #175

Anyone else note the irony of Hoyt's avatar? brentspeak Feb 2015 #139

Woody, would care about the poor doing better. In today's economy, that means helping produce Hoyt Feb 2015 #142

Yes, Woody Guthrie singing along with pharma CEOs and the US Chamber of Commerce brentspeak Feb 2015 #149

That was the 1930s. Unfortunately, things are different now. Arlo Guthrie, Hoyt Feb 2015 #150

Obama put the Social Security cut in his own fucking budget, your attack is a delusional TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #161

"...he's seeing what he can get" 2naSalit Feb 2015 #124

Bingo Populist_Prole Feb 2015 #136

There are legitimate reasons to mistrust President Obama on this Dwight42 Feb 2015 #28

I read his response, it's not very encouraging when we allow Foreign Corporations to write our laws sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #68

+1 - remember the claims for transparency? erronis Feb 2015 #20

But he wants it, so what does that make him? FiveGoodMen Feb 2015 #29

He wants it if he gets a good deal, you should too because Congress will play Hoyt Feb 2015 #31

We The People aspirant Feb 2015 #36

It's not likely to impact our "sovereignty" as much as you think. And it Hoyt Feb 2015 #39

"overrule federal, state and local laws" aspirant Feb 2015 #41

No it does not. The "tribunals" which are in existing agreements, including European Union, Hoyt Feb 2015 #42

I quoted the OP aspirant Feb 2015 #44

Fast Track authority must be granted to the President by Congress. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #147

I thought it was treason to interfere with the President's foreign policy initiatives? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #2

Well, once US sovereignty is deliberately & completely undermined by corporate Int'l tribunals.. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #3

You mean like Boehner and Netanyahu? aspirant Feb 2015 #6

"We need the Shock and Awe within the power of the words." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #7

Using these generic, fluffy words (TPP, Fast Track, Investor State) aspirant Feb 2015 #13

thank you guillaumeb Feb 2015 #27

"Liars and thieves like to hide what they are doing with jargon" +100 ND-Dem Feb 2015 #79

plus we do not want to call them liars and thieves guillaumeb Feb 2015 #126

The RW is also accusing Obama of treason on other issues. Using treason as a mere rhetorical Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #92

No, aspirant Feb 2015 #94

One side yells, "Obama is a traitor for the TPP!" the other side yells, "Obama is a traitor for his Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #95

Two distinct sides, RW and Populist Dems, glad you agree aspirant Feb 2015 #96

Hey, I never said the man was immune from pursuing bad policies and doing so in a bad way. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #97

If we allow aspirant Feb 2015 #101

Then what is to stop the RW from using the word treason? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #103

I could care less aspirant Feb 2015 #105

Brave New World Order Thing globalist endgame Octafish Feb 2015 #8

+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #100

I remember when the word "treason" used to mean something NuclearDem Feb 2015 #11

What does it mean now? aspirant Feb 2015 #14

Betraying one's country by secretly ceding its sovereignty to global Oligarchs 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #16

Have you read about tribunals and looked at the cases that arose under NAFTA. Hoyt Feb 2015 #49

TPP is not NAFTA 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #52

The tribunals are the same.. Read for yourself. Jeeeez. Hoyt Feb 2015 #53

Then please explain why Labor & Environmental advocates aren't championing TPP 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #55

Truthfully, it's better for them to bash Obama and obsfucate. Hoyt Feb 2015 #56

Awesome talking point, but 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #57

Good luck. I think you'd be better off promoting trade and taxing the heck out of those Hoyt Feb 2015 #59

Wow. nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #60

+100. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #80

Oh, now...... DeSwiss Feb 2015 #18

I agree that support for the TPP is treason Jack Rabbit Feb 2015 #19

and a big K & R! n/t wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #22

Now, now, it hasn't happened yet. winter is coming Feb 2015 #25

+100 good one. nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #46

Huge K&R woo me with science Feb 2015 #50

Once Hillary is anointed and coronated, we wont be able to talk about issues like this Ramses Feb 2015 #61

Even Robert Reich thinks it's a bad deal Populist_Prole Feb 2015 #64

I like Robert Reich 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #65

Robert still says NAFTA was good, because his name is all over it. Hoyt Feb 2015 #75

"I still regret not doing more to strengthen the North American Free Trade Act's labor and ND-Dem Feb 2015 #81

And Obama is trying to strengthen the labor and environmental side of TPP which Hoyt Feb 2015 #82

Why would I give anyone credit when everything's done in secret? I don't give reich much ND-Dem Feb 2015 #85

You sure seem to know that "secret" agreement is going to screw us. Hoyt Feb 2015 #86

good. go to bed. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #87

But you seem to "know" that this secret agreement is going to be "good" for us. cascadiance Feb 2015 #152

It's done like that because complicated negotiations won't accomplish anything if done in Hoyt Feb 2015 #155

But who's doing most of the "negotiations" in secret? Corporate entities! That is NOT democracy! cascadiance Feb 2015 #156

Wrong again. Corporations are not negotiating the TPP. It's government officials from the various Hoyt Feb 2015 #157

So basically you are calling Senator Bernie Sanders a liar then... cascadiance Feb 2015 #158

Bernie plays to his audience. I think you should learn to read. Hoyt Feb 2015 #159

Doesn't seem like Obama's doing a very good job compared to Bernie... cascadiance Feb 2015 #162

He told us few days ago. You were more concerned with supposed threats to "national sovereignty" Hoyt Feb 2015 #163

Did he tell us why he needs Fast Track Authority to pass this bill and it should be done in secret? cascadiance Feb 2015 #164

Actually there are people who are against anything Obama does, even when beneficial. Hoyt Feb 2015 #166

You and others ARE NOT explaining what is beneficial, just playing the "hater" card! TYPICAL! cascadiance Feb 2015 #168

So what? Populist_Prole Feb 2015 #137

So, what happened between June 2008 and now? Hoyt Feb 2015 #140

He wised up Populist_Prole Feb 2015 #143

No he didn't. What he said is still true, he's just in a position where there's no income/recognitio Hoyt Feb 2015 #145

K&R.... ND-Dem Feb 2015 #74

We do not want the fucking thing! Enthusiast Feb 2015 #102

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #169

Throwing around the terms "treason" and "traitor" is irresponsible. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #170

Ceding US sovereignty to a pack of Int'l Corporate Oligarchs 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #177

No, it doesn't. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #178

and don't forget aspirant Feb 2015 #179

destroy the snowball before it gains momentum! down with TPP! NuttyFluffers Feb 2015 #176