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In reply to the discussion: HRC is NOT a member of a dynasty (Jeb Bush is, of course) [View all]Divernan
(15,480 posts)203. Her boss TERMINATED her & refused to recommend her for any other jobs!
From YOUR link to Snopes:
The claim originated with Jerry Zeifman, under whom Clinton worked in 1974 as a member of the impeachment inquiry staff for the House Committee on the Judiciary during the course of the scandal.
Statements made by Zeifman himself contradict the claim he fired Hillary Clinton. During a 1998 interview with the Sacramento Bee in which he discussed his work with Clinton on Watergate, Zeifman not only stated he hadn't fired her, but he didn't even have the authority to fire her:
If I had the power to fire her, I would have fired her.
Ten years later, Zeifman's story had shifted. When asked by radio host Neal Boortz in April 2008 if he had fired Hillary Clinton from the Watergate investigation, Zeifman hedged by stating Clinton had been let go, but only as part of a layoff of multiple personnel who were no longer needed:
Well, let me put it this way. I terminated her, along with some other staff members who were we no longer needed, and advised her that I would not could not recommend her for any further positions.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/zeifman.asp#8e0IuqzK7BYEJrFB.99
And here's the rest of the story as to why he refused to recommend her for any other positions, in a letter from the aforementioned Jerry Zeifman:
The book is now out of print. However, a small supply of the limited first edition is still available. Information about it, and how to obtain a copy, may be found at: www.iethical.org/book.htm
Previously published in the NEW YORK POST
August 16. 1999
HILLARY'S WATERGATE SCANDAL
By Jerry Zeifman
IN December 1974, as general counsel and chief of staff of the House Judiciary Committee, I made a personal evaluation of Hillary Rodham (now Mrs. Clinton), a member of the staff we had gathered for our impeachment inquiry on President Richard Nixon. I decided that I could not recommend her for any future position of public or private trust.
Why? Hillary's main duty on our staff has been described by as "establishing the legal procedures to be followed in the course of the inquiry and impeachment." A number of the procedures she recommended were ethically flawed. And I also concluded that she had violated House and committee rules by disclosing confidential information to unauthorized persons.
Hillary had conferred personally with me regarding procedural rules. I advised her that Judiciary Committee Chairman Peter Rodino, House Speaker Carl Albert, Majority Leader Tip O'Neill and I had previously agreed not to advocate anything contrary to the rules already adopted and published for that Congress. I quoted Mr. O'Neill's statement that: "To try to change the rules now would be politically divisive. It would be like trying to change the traditional rules of baseball before a World Series."
Hillary assured me that she had not drafted and would not advocate any such rules changes. I soon learned that she had lied: She had already drafted changes, and continued to advocate them.
In one written legal memorandum, she advocated denying President Nixon representation by counsel. This, though in our then-most-recent prior impeachment proceeding, the committee had afforded the right to counsel to Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas.
I also informed Hillary that the Douglas impeachment files were available for public inspection in our offices. I later learned that the Douglas files were then removed from our general files without my permission, transferred to the offices of the impeachment inquiry staff, and were no longer accessible to the public.
The young Ms. Rodham had other bad advice about procedures, arguing that the Judiciary Committee should neither 1) hold any hearings with or take the depositions of any live witnesses, nor 2) conduct any original investigation of
Watergate, bribery, tax evasion, or any other possible impeachable offense of President Nixon - but to rely instead on prior investigations conducted by other committees and agencies.
The committee rejected Ms. Rodham's recommendations: It agreed to allow President Nixon to be represented by counsel and to hold hearings with live witnesses. Hillary then advocated that the official rules of the House be amended to deny members of the committee the right to question witnesses. This unfair recommendation was rejected by the full House. (The committee also vetoed her suggestion that it leave the drafting of the articles of impeachment to her and her fellow special staffers.)
The recommendations advocated by Hillary were apparently initiated or approved by Yale Law School professor Burke Marshall - in violation of committee and House rules on confidentiality. They were also advocated by her immediate supervisors, Special Counsel John Doar and Senior Associate Special Counsel Bernard Nussbaum, both of whom had worked under Marshall in the Kennedy Justice Department.
It was not until two months after Nixon's resignation that I first learned of still another questionable role of Ms. Rodham. On Sept. 26, 1974, Rep. Charles Wiggins, a Republican member of the committee, wrote to ask Chairman Rodino to look into a troubling set of events. That spring, Wiggins and other committee members had asked "that research should be undertaken so as to furnish a standard against which to test the alleged abusive conduct of Richard Nixon." And, while "no such staff study was made available to the members at any time for their use," Wiggins had just learned that such a study had been conducted - at committee expense - by a team of professors who completed and filed their reports with the impeachment-inquiry staff well in advance of our public hearings.
The report was not made available to members of Congress. But after the impeachment-inquiry staff was disbanded, it was published commercially and sold in book stores. Wiggins wrote that he was "especially troubled by the possibility that information deemed essential by some of the members in their discharge of their responsibilities may have been intentionally suppressed by the staff during the course our investigation."
On Oct. 3, Rodino wrote back: "Hillary Rodham of the impeachment-inquiry staff coordinated the work. ... After the staff received the report it was reviewed by Ms. Rodham, briefly by Mr. Labovitz and Mr. Sack, and by Mr. Doar. The staff did not think the manuscript was useful in its present form."
On the charge of willful suppression, he wrote: "That was not the case ... The staff did not think the material was usable by the committee in its existing form and had not had time to modify it so it would have practical utility for the members of the committee. I was informed and agreed with the judgment."
During my 14-year tenure with the House Judiciary Committee, I had supervisory authority over several hundred staff members. With the exception of Ms. Rodham, Doar and Nussbaum, I recommend all of them for future positions of public and private trust.
Jerry Zeifman is the author of "Without Honor: The Impeachment of President Nixon and the Crimes of Camelot," which describes the above matters in more detail. (See www.iethical.org/book.htm)
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No, yet I suppose she could be a co-founder of a dynasty only time will tell...
HereSince1628
Feb 2015
#3
they make a political dynasty. and it is of little moment whether they were "elected through
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#7
No. Two highly-qualified people don't constitute a dynasty. And Hillary Clinton is a former Secretary of State
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#13
she got to be Senator/SoS because of having been the President's wife, in the last analysis.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#25
Whatever. the circumstances: two people, separated by 16 years, don't constitute a dynasty. n/t
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#36
If she hadn't been first bill's wife as governor, then his wife as president, it's unlikely she'd
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#127
campaign experience on bill's campaigns. yale degrees are nice, but lots of people have
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#164
You think her activities as First Lady didn't provide her with valuable knowledge and experience,
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#167
of course they did. but she wouldn't have had them, had she not been first lady. that's the
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#168
Her efforts had a lot to do with Bill getting elected, so it works both ways. n/t
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#173
of course. but again, as potential first lady. i believe her efforts included something about
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#174
The policy people got mad about was ... HEALTH CARE. She wanted people to HAVE it!!! Oh, the huge
MADem
Feb 2015
#199
Yup. And Children's health care was the worst of all! (CHIP) But don't forget the lobbying she was
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#204
Don't bother listening to someone who doesn't even realize that she worked in DC
MADem
Feb 2015
#198
All these claims were made by a conspiracy theorist who switched sides and now writes for outlets like NEWSMAX,
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#208
Here's another long piece written by Zeifman about how much he loathes Ted Kennedy.
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#214
The Big Z has been caught in lie after lie after lie--only someone who was just so anxious to
MADem
Feb 2015
#218
Good GAWD, you sure are a selective reader--but thanks for OUTING yourself so robustly!!!!!
MADem
Feb 2015
#211
She never would have been elected to the senate if she hadn't been first lady
tularetom
Feb 2015
#37
Thank you for this good example of "Hillary-hate." Someone else was claiming not to ever see it
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#39
What is deeply offensive is the poster's suggestion that Hillary's sleeping with the man who "got a BJ"
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#108
If you're going to make the ridiculous claim that Hillary Clinton is not part of a political dynasty
Marr
Feb 2015
#116
I'm not sure about that, but it IS a blatant expression of what, IMO, is at the root
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#98
"... But she did sleep with the guy who got a BJ in the Oval Office."
DemocratSinceBirth
Feb 2015
#107
Hillary got 48% of the delegates in the primaries. No one "wiped the floor" with her.
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#178
"She hasn't "earned" squat. But she did sleep with the guy who got a BJ in the Oval Office." WOW..
Cha
Feb 2015
#222
It's up to you, but I would ask you to please consider self deleting this comment.
KMOD
Feb 2015
#223
i have no argument. all those families = political dynasties, same as the clintons. i'd never
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#23
i think you're confusing royal dynasties with political dynasties. did bush sr. "bestow"
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#32
you seem to be the one making up your own rules. i've cited dictionaries and news items.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#46
so the adams family was not a political dynasty because they didn't succeed each other
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#124
be that as it may; it's the same one i quoted earlier. and a standard definition.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#132
Yeah, you used it with someone else. You called Wikipedia a 'linguistic master." Bwahaha.
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#134
Quote me where I said "a political dynasty meant direct succession to the same office,"
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#143
No, your comments assume it. There's no other possible interpretation of your comments.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#148
I claimed what you just admitted I didn't actually say was in webster's? LOL. Got it.
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#152
You're making a judgement of what's implicit in my statements. OK, got it. LOL.
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#156
Is it implied, explicit, implicit, direct, assumed... ? You're tying yourself in knots.
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#160
so you admit that you think "succession" is synonymous with "direct succession"?
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#165
I think if Hillary became president, we can safely say its a political dynasty
dissentient
Feb 2015
#20
I think if Hillary became president, we can safely say its not a political dynasty
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#22
It's a free country. The bottom line is, some American's don't like the idea of being ruled over by
dissentient
Feb 2015
#38
most don't apparently. everything hill did, she did on her own merit. in theory.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#27
Yeah. It's gonna be an interesting lead-up to the primary (assuming, of course,
silvershadow
Feb 2015
#45
There have been 16 years during which this non-dynasty did not maintain its power.
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#40
Can you do us all a favor and tell us what authority your definition of 'political dynasty' has?
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#59
paste the definition from Merriam-Webster of 'political dynasty.' Or better yet, I will
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#63
so what? few political dynasties have uninterrupted runs of power. at least not at the
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#54
where do you get your definition of 'political dynasty' from? Oh, yeah, you made it up.
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#85
Perhaps you would like to reconcile the definition with your 'progressive' made up one?
wyldwolf
Feb 2015
#125
Thanks, I'm familiar with the english language. Your pained parsing is entertaining, though. /nt
Marr
Feb 2015
#133
Very astute. She also is not from the more "traditional" Democratic wings of the party-
silvershadow
Feb 2015
#44
No. I explained what I meant. The labor the party embraced for the last 100+ years.
silvershadow
Feb 2015
#86
NAFTA is an albatross around both their necks. (Hill and Bill). I will make you a deal,
silvershadow
Feb 2015
#100
Perhaps not. I thought my vote was for who I think is the best candidate.
silvershadow
Feb 2015
#113
Sorry, poor example. Thanks, got it. Her views aren't anything at all unlike her husbands.
silvershadow
Feb 2015
#119
LOL. You are fun. Doesn't matter to me, my vote doesn't count. Well, unless I withhold it from
silvershadow
Feb 2015
#129
"Maybe you can just redefine the word 'lost'" = lol. They seem to think word games are more
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#187
Agree with the 60%+ Dem voters or else, silvershadow. You have no choice.
RufusTFirefly
Feb 2015
#144
I will choose the Democrat when the so-called "primary" gets to me. The one who is left in
silvershadow
Feb 2015
#184
I never quite understood why some people referred to SoS Clinton as part of a dynasty, either.
BlueCaliDem
Feb 2015
#48
as long as she doesn't succeed bill directly and is only a clinton by marriage,
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#157
Great!! That's truly inspiring! Vote for Hillary because (technically) she's not part of a dynasty
RufusTFirefly
Feb 2015
#166
it is inspiring, isn't it? i feel my heart warming as we speak. (though it may be heartburn.
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#169
She was Hillary Rodham until she got bullied by the backwards media into becoming "Mrs. Clinton."
MADem
Feb 2015
#177
Smirk was smart--he was smart enough to steal an election and keep power for eight years.
MADem
Feb 2015
#206
First time trader, HRC turns $1,000 into $109,600 - it's a Cattle Futures Miracle!
Divernan
Feb 2015
#205
The thing that really struck me about the "Clinton dynasty" talking point was ...
planetc
Feb 2015
#185
Fair enough. Though it would be nice if the Democratic Party's standard-bearer was a Democrat. n/t
backscatter712
Feb 2015
#186
and clinton married into another office-holding political family with money, which widens the
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#194
The in-laws still appear to be living the life of wealth and connections, however. I don't
ND-Dem
Feb 2015
#209
Dynasty Schmynasty, the problem is she isn't just a member of the Oligarchy but
TheKentuckian
Feb 2015
#217