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In reply to the discussion: Hillary the inevitable. [View all]
 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
169. Yes stats register. But we don't have stats.
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 07:10 PM
Feb 2015

We have polling. That is like an estimate before the game to continue with your Michael Jordan example. The game isn't being played yet. We're not even in the season yet. So standing there and announcing that Michael Jordan will score fifty points in the championship game is not a statistic, it's an estimate. It's a prediction.

Polling now is far too early to be meaningful. The only polling that is meaningful right now is public opinion on issues. That should be a guide for prospective candidates on how to shape their message, and what issues to focus on. Before we get to the competition we have a long road. And the issues right now are Hillary's weak spot. Because as the game approaches, people will start tuning in.

We'll win the 40% of people who traditionally vote Democratic. The Republicans will win the 40% that traditionally vote for them. That leaves 20% that we have to try and convince. Actually a hair over ten percent, but you get the point. So how do we convince those people to vote for us? Do we announce that the election is already over? Hillary won guys, give it up. We have polling to prove it.

We had polling that showed more than 90% of the people approved of background checks for all weapons sales. The Congress failed to pass the legislation. That same polling was used to predict a huge Democratic win in Congress. That huge Democratic win never materialized. That was after the pundits and poll watchers swore that the Republican Party was dead because of that action.

Citizens United would unite the people to vote the Republican out of office. The Republicans picked up seats in the House and the Senate. Statistics were used to prove that the Republicans were doomed. Polling was used to show that the Democrats could just enjoy the stroll to victory. Now of course, we've forgotten about all of that haven't we?

Hillary is on the unpopular side of too many issues to win. Senator Wyden, of Oregon, knows that if he sides with the TPP his career in the Senate is over. http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/Poll-Shows-Voters-Will-Hold-Lawmakers-Accountable-for-Fast-Track-Support

Senator Wyden is a popular Senator with his constituents, yet this one issue places him in dire jeopardy of losing his seat. So let's talk issues.

Do you think the Labor Unions are going to push hard to get Hillary elected if she supports the TPP and Fast track which she has said she supports? The Labor Unions will not go Republican, but they won't go for Hillary either. How do Democrats win without the Unions? So how does your statistic look now? Unions make up 35% of public sector workers, and just under 7% of private sector workers. So how does Hillary win if she loses a percentage of that vote, even as little as a quarter of them because she supports TPP?

Remember, these are the statistics that you want to discuss, that you want to claim I don't understand.

Hillary won't win the South. So the states in play will be Ohio, Indiana, Colorado, and Pennsylvania. Three of those four are Union states. How does she win them if the Union doesn't come out to support her? How can the Union come out and support her if she supports wiping the manufacturing base off the map with the TPP?

I know Statistics. I was warning people this time last year that the Senate was in real danger. I was told then that I had no idea what I was talking about, but I was reading the polls, and not just the ones that said what I liked. I was reading polls on issues, and despite the predictions of huge success here I remained constant in my worries about losing the Senate. Sadly, I was right. We lost the Senate, and we lost it badly. Already people forgot that, and already they're convinced we actually won somehow and will keep winning.

Hillary can't win. She can't unify the various demographics that are the core of the Democratic Party. The Volunteers won't show up, the Unions won't put the time in, and won't push her because to them it will be as if they are electing a Republican. Or do you think the AFLCIO is going to show up in great numbers to put in the hours to elect Hillary on Gay Marriage and Choice? Perhaps the UAW will really pump the dollars into her campaign so that they can see more factories moved to Mexico.

I know what I'm talking about. I know the statistics. I know the numbers. You're predicting the outcome of the final game of the basketball season and we're not even in team practices yet. The numbers right now are meaningless, because they don't take anything into account especially issues which drove the midterm election against us. Issues we utterly ignored kicked our asses while we answered every question with war on women. In far too many states we didn't even win the Women's demographic. For example Texas. Wendy Davis didn't even win with the Women voters. Allison Lundgren Grimes didn't either. Those were our big hopes remember the Statistics that were tossed about how they were going to win big?

IF we run Hillary. We lose big. Because too many of our supporters will not support her. Or do you think that the Union Leadership will tell their members to commit suicide to get Hillary elected? People vote for self interest. They pick candidates based upon self interest. That means issues. That means our candidate can't be Hillary.

Now, in November of next year, you and many others are probably going to be blaming me for screwing up her chances. I've made a prediction too. I'm predicting that Hillary is death for our party. I'm predicting that Hillary will lose and the Republicans would win all three branches of Government with at least four probably eight years of appointing SC justices. With their majority in the Senate they can name Justices that make Robert Bork look like an enlightened liberal.

But go ahead. Keep pointing to the polls. When they start to turn against Hillary, do what we did going into November. Swear that the Polls are wrong. Talk about how the polling only calls people's house phones and that leaves out the millennials who don't have house phones and live on their cells. Talk about how the polling is always skewed to the Republicans. Because this time, the polling was skewed towards us, we lost by much bigger margins than the polling predicted.

So tell me how any of that doesn't matter. How Hillary can win without the Unions. Or tell me a fairy tale about how the Unions will support her when she supports the TPP and Free Trade that eviscerates their membership. Remember, this is just one issue that has peeled off thousands of votes, unless you think that the Unions are so awesome that they would donate time, money, and energy and vote against their own interests.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Hillary the inevitable. [View all] Savannahmann Feb 2015 OP
LOL DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #1
a pair of parody? guillaumeb Feb 2015 #56
I wouldn't vote for any of em DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #63
Neither, thanks. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #2
Its not a question of inevitability VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #3
Like in 2008??? nt Logical Feb 2015 #7
Do you have someone who polls ahead of ALL Republicans VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #8
She lost a 30 point lead in 2008 and just paid off her 2008 debt last year.... Logical Feb 2015 #9
and 30 points would STILL not be enough...she is ahead by 50 of them! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #10
She did terrible at fund raising also! nt Logical Feb 2015 #45
Saying a twelve point lead is a thirty point lead doesn't seem Logical, ergo: DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #12
Looking at the polls in 2008, it WAS accurate to say she lost that lead... cascadiance Feb 2015 #35
The losses seem to be in the teens and not thirty and as the other poster pointed out ... DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #36
doesn't matter...STILL not enough.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #37
You are going to have a bad 12 months! nt Logical Feb 2015 #47
No it appears that would be you....you seem to have some problem with math.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #48
LOL, once again, like in 2008! Numbers favored it then too! nt Logical Feb 2015 #73
and mr "logical" you have been told over and over...she has almost doubled that lead VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #75
nice try, where the fuck did I say any timeframe, here you go...... Logical Feb 2015 #46
still not a 50 point drop! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #49
I have total faith clinton can lose a 50 point lead. Wow, you are brainwashed. nt Logical Feb 2015 #71
Yeah and monkeys will soon fly out of my butt! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #72
Way early! Way early. But at least I will vote for her if she is the nominee. God forbid! nt Logical Feb 2015 #84
Well then you better gird your loins... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #87
Here you go, get ready..... Logical Feb 2015 #86
Not my monkeys....not my butt! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #88
I really do hope monkeys fly out your butt davidpdx Feb 2015 #103
My attitude is just fine....Perhaps you just don't like REAL Democrats standing up for the Party! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #109
I have a book I think you need to read, send me your address and I'll buy you a copy davidpdx Feb 2015 #125
No, not like 2008 Renew Deal Feb 2015 #38
guess she just needs to say she is running and you can be relevant. NM_Birder Feb 2015 #34
I guess it is difficult for reality to sink in for some, yes, she has the support of the major Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #62
Some cannot handle the truth! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #64
Maybe in the next two years it will be very plain. The GOP has taken an Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #65
The fact that they even considered Jeb Bush shows just how desperate they are! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #68
If I was looking for someone to run in the GOP and someone who beat Hillary Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #80
I have already bought my shares in popcorn stock.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #81
Hey, free Keystone kops, huh. lol Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #89
I'm a Democrat. LWolf Feb 2015 #101
Oh now careful there.... davidpdx Feb 2015 #104
As you can see. LWolf Feb 2015 #117
Okay....who do YOU have in opposition to HRC that polls in double digits against all Republicans? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #123
I have a long list of great Democrats; LWolf Feb 2015 #128
and answer the question....do you know any of them can beat ALL Republicans by double digits? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #129
I don't know that anyone can beat anyone by any margin LWolf Feb 2015 #142
poll after poll VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #143
Don't quote what I didn't say. LWolf Feb 2015 #144
right.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #146
Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #149
wow.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #150
. LWolf Feb 2015 #151
Maybe it takes a lot to describe someone Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #164
apparently it is the "other side" that are sensitive... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #122
Really there are "sides" davidpdx Feb 2015 #126
You tell me....you brought it up! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #127
103, 104, 125, and 126 davidpdx Feb 2015 #130
I plan on waffles on election day if Hillary is the only choice. Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #148
results RussBLib Feb 2015 #156
Thanks! Looks like I struck a nerve Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #157
I wonder who could've alerted on you. Quackers Feb 2015 #165
It was me. Agschmid Feb 2015 #167
Pushers? WTF!!! She is far in the lead among ALL REAL Democrats no one is holding a gun to our heads VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #111
Results... Major Nikon Feb 2015 #120
Not to mention this poster first suggested SOME Democrats were "HRC Pushers" and also VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #121
OK... malokvale77 Feb 2015 #132
You know what....there are also alot of women including young women who hadn't bothered to vote VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #135
My threat? malokvale77 Feb 2015 #140
Yeah actually....you did! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #141
Yup. Agschmid Feb 2015 #145
I do not agree with anything you have ever stated on DU malokvale77 Feb 2015 #172
"You know the base that didn't vote for Reagan." malokvale77 Feb 2015 #174
No Ideologues do not deal with "reality" VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #175
A promising career with Unskewed Polls awaits you. whatthehey Feb 2015 #4
Cool Push Poll, Bro. eom MohRokTah Feb 2015 #5
"Hillary sucks, wash, rinse and repeat." DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #6
Really, who says that? Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #158
Brevity is a virtue. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #159
How about... Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #160
Even better... DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #161
Thought you wanted brevity? Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #162
"Even better" seems like a compliment, no?/NT DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #163
Um, who told you that? brooklynite Feb 2015 #11
What does 'solid mainstream Democrat' mean these days? Wall St friendly, MIC friendly? Maybe that sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #17
In my book? Pro choice, pro gay rights, pro progressive taxation, pro Social Security, pro ACA... brooklynite Feb 2015 #18
Every Democrat, and surprising as it may be, many Republicans, and certainly Independents, left sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #21
So, am I to understand that you support an isolationist foreign policy and absolute passivism? brooklynite Feb 2015 #23
Am I to assume you support Rove/Cheney/Bush's policies of turning this country into an Empire? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #25
No, I believe in the Obama policy of supporting democracy through limited military engagement brooklynite Feb 2015 #28
Democracy? Show me some of those 'democracies' we have helped to 'create' or support? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #42
+1 A Little Weird Feb 2015 #153
funny Martin O malley DonCoquixote Feb 2015 #40
Indeed he is... brooklynite Feb 2015 #41
You don't think you are THAT do you? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #50
Excuse me? 'You don't think you are THAT do you'? Care to explain that more clearly? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #58
You don't think YOUR views are that of the "Solid Mainstream Democrats" VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #61
Solid Mainstream Democrats are FIGHTERS for the working class, the elderly, disabled, children, sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #95
Markos Moulitsas? winter is coming Feb 2015 #60
I see...one blogger brooklynite Feb 2015 #82
Yes, one anonyous commentator here is exactly the same thing winter is coming Feb 2015 #85
Still an opionion piece by ONE person... brooklynite Feb 2015 #90
Unrec. FSogol Feb 2015 #13
Can't vote. Push poll. MineralMan Feb 2015 #14
actually, no we don't hfojvt Feb 2015 #15
'her gender alone' is NOT inspiring. Her positions on policies are what WOMEN are interested. If she sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #19
they already tried that in 2008 hfojvt Feb 2015 #24
then YOU might want to read up on HER policies not HIS... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #51
Imagine anyone judging Biden or Sanders based on their wives' views BainsBane Feb 2015 #93
If Biden's or Sander's wives had been president tularetom Feb 2015 #105
She embodies them in your minds BainsBane Feb 2015 #106
Instead of attacking me for expressing my views tularetom Feb 2015 #108
"if only to preserve my right to bitch..." VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #114
It is a verb (genderless) ya know and I really don't care what you believe tularetom Feb 2015 #116
sure it is....You keep telling yourself that....you're a real feminist male alright VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #118
And if she becomes President Tom....what does that do for them???? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #119
We'll just have to wait and see, won't we tularetom Feb 2015 #136
Yeah you will VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #137
This message was self-deleted by its author tularetom Feb 2015 #107
Judging her and saying they are essentially joined at the hip on policy when SHE has her VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #113
I thoiught she was inevitable in 2008. SheilaT Feb 2015 #16
You stick-in-the-eye people need to look at Jeb Bush's group of advisers. Paladin Feb 2015 #20
Again, that is the broken leg is better than a heart attack argument. Savannahmann Feb 2015 #97
If we get a Repub president and we end up living in American Sniper Nation, remind me to thank you. Paladin Feb 2015 #100
Exactly! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #133
Actually, it's more like a pudgy short guy that everyone says is better than Jordan. Savannahmann Feb 2015 #166
Stats doesn't even register with you did they? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #168
Yes stats register. But we don't have stats. Savannahmann Feb 2015 #169
Yes we do...its called Polling... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #170
Those who give the greatest impression of inevitiability are her detractors BainsBane Feb 2015 #22
You tell it!!! NanceGreggs Feb 2015 #67
Agreed! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #77
unrec ...push poll. obnoxiousdrunk Feb 2015 #26
Unrec. hrmjustin Feb 2015 #27
The odds are, we'll get both Cal Carpenter Feb 2015 #29
H comes before J BlueJazz Feb 2015 #30
Wow, what an eye-opener! (pun intended) We now have 72% voting they would rather have a sharp stick dissentient Feb 2015 #31
Reminds me of Jesus' admonition that you shouldn't look at the spec in your neighbor's eye... DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2015 #33
Of DUers that chose to pick an option Renew Deal Feb 2015 #39
People show their true characters when they become desperate stevenleser Feb 2015 #66
That's very perceptive, Steven Fumesucker Feb 2015 #70
I'm not sympathetic to the anti-Hillary crowd here. But you already knew that. stevenleser Feb 2015 #74
Perspective is important Fumesucker Feb 2015 #98
thats very perceptive Fumesucker VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #79
Hillary is too much like Debbie Wasserman Shultz Fumesucker Feb 2015 #99
Says the Left Leaning Independent! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #112
You keep posting this A Little Weird Feb 2015 #154
I wanted to vote we stop poking around for loyalty oaths and rebellion oaths, but that was not an merrily Feb 2015 #32
I vote we take what DEMOCRATS want....you know like that Primary Election VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #52
no guillaumeb Feb 2015 #57
Hide thread is your friend. bigwillq Feb 2015 #59
And we're both free to post our different opinions about that. merrily Feb 2015 #171
If Hillary gets the nod, will you bite your tongue and follow ... 11 Bravo Feb 2015 #43
In the case of many....that will be a crow pizza! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #54
Seems like a pandering post ... either/or, yes/no, black/white ... not a call for libdem4life Feb 2015 #44
I thought about passing.. peace13 Feb 2015 #53
PASS--Disruptive, divisive META. IMO. nt MADem Feb 2015 #55
This is one of the most stupid murielm99 Feb 2015 #69
A disruptive meta complaint about Hillary supporting DUers packaged as a push poll stevenleser Feb 2015 #76
This is a stupid post and an idiotic poll OKNancy Feb 2015 #78
I'll vote for her if there is no other D choice Go Vols Feb 2015 #83
Honestly... 99Forever Feb 2015 #91
The term "Hillary is inevitable" ... NanceGreggs Feb 2015 #92
Racked your brain and can't think of a single reason the inevitable meme stuck? AtomicKitten Feb 2015 #94
Ouch! DeSwiss Feb 2015 #96
OMG!!! NanceGreggs Feb 2015 #102
Ok, perhaps I'm wrong. Savannahmann Feb 2015 #115
At this point in time ... NanceGreggs Feb 2015 #124
You realize you proved my point. Savannahmann Feb 2015 #131
"I listed the issues, and showed she's weak, or wrong on most of them ... NanceGreggs Feb 2015 #134
I don't understand. Are we talking about voting for her in the primary, or the general? Warren DeMontague Feb 2015 #110
Is this a joke? workinclasszero Feb 2015 #138
If I must post it again. I will. Savannahmann Feb 2015 #139
You have that right. Agschmid Feb 2015 #147
The problem isn't a power vacuum. The problem is conventional wisdom. Savannahmann Feb 2015 #152
If someone wants to run against Hillary treestar Feb 2015 #155
Other: Seems the plan is that I get the stick in the eye either way but I'm not going to endorse it. TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #173
Only Republicans think Hillary Clinton is inevitable... Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #176
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