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woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
65. You're arguing a strawman and avoiding the actual content of my post.
Sun Feb 22, 2015, 04:42 PM
Feb 2015

I never claim that both parties are the same. That is a convenient strawman often used by corporate posters to divert from the *actual* main idea in a post.

In fact, I have repeatedly pointed out how the parties deliberately diverge on social issues that are important to people but which the One Percent could not care less about, in order to blackmail people into voting for the predatory economic, war, and police state agenda that the One Percent DO care about and that the parties deliberately share.

Of course, you knew that already. You might even have seen my most recent post about it here:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6231259
Yes, that's certainly the Lesser of Two Evils Scam that corporatists in both parties keep using on us.

Red vs. Blue = Oligarchy Theater for the masses.

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing the internet to corporations? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
TISA corporate overlord agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks? Both parties support it.
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Privatization of the TVA? Both parties support it.
Immunity for telecoms? Both parties support it.
"Looking forward" and letting war criminals off the hook? Both parties support it.
Deciding torturers are patriots? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.
Trillion dollar increase in nuclear weapons. Both parties support it.
New war in Iraq. Both parties support it.
New war in Syria. Both parties support it.
Carpet bombing of captive population in Gaza. Both parties support it.
Selling off swaths of the Gulf of Mexico for drilling? Both parties support it.
Drilling along the Atlantic Coast? Both parties support it.
BUT, we are reminded by sneering corporate Democrats, Republicans will do all of this to us, too, PLUS inflict transvaginal ultrasounds!

What a vicious scam by both parties to justify relentless, predatory evil. To demand that we vote for our own sellout and exploitation and the dismantling of our democracy itself.


So...now that we've determined what my point wasn't, let's post again what I actually did write:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6261687

We live in an oligarchy, not a democracy.

Corporatists don't care which party wins, as long as the corporate agenda continues.

IMO both corporate parties want a Republican in next time. The Democratic Party is deliberately losing elections (Recall the DCCC "Accept Doom" email campaign) and deliberately alienating its base. Even the party mouthpieces are not just shoving Hillary down our throats, but being ostentatiously rude and obnoxious about it. The propaganda topic of the day everywhere is whether people will still vote for Hillary. I think they want people to abandon ship.

Why? Because six years of predatory Wall Street policies coming from a supposedly Democratic president have woken too many people in the country up to the fact that the parties are corrupt.

Once they have the Republican in office, I predict all the corporate Democrats will suddenly start pretending to oppose all these vicious corporate policies they have been shoving down our throats for eight years. The horrible policies will continue, and they will put on a good Kabuki show of being the vehement, albeit impotent, opposition party.

That way, the corporatists hope, the people will be reassured that we really still do have a democracy. We can stop all this silly talk about oligarchy and corruption. People will believe that the Democratic Party stands for their interests, and we can all go back to pretending that the only problem we have is that Republicans are in office and we need to get the corporate Democrats back in.


I don't think that's unclear at all.

Yes, it matters to *people* who wins elections. We are deliberately blackmailed and manipulated to support parties based on the the important social issues I mentioned (YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE ABORTION RIGHTS, DO YOU?), but we are also relentlessly propagandized to hate the other team so that we will never unite with them to oppose the predatory economic, war, and police state agenda that the parties do share. So yes, the *people* are trained, and blackmailed, to consider party immensely important.

The oligarchs care only about putting into power whichever party can most easily, in the current political climate, continue implementing the predatory corporate agenda (economic, war, police state policies) that the two parties share.

The entrenchment and expansion of that predatory Bush agenda for two more terms, under a Democratic president who ran on Hope and Change, has awakened people to how corrupt our system has truly become. That both parties are working for Wall Street against our interests in these areas, whatever the other differences between the parties may be. That we have oligarchy rather than democracy. And that it is going to take more than voting for one of the corrupt parties to fix it.

That's the political climate in which decisions are being made about which party can most easily carry forward the next steps of the corporate takeover of this nation. And for the reasons I explained in my post, I think it will be very useful for the corporate elite to have Republicans back in power again, and corporate Democrats pretending to oppose them.

I think the behavior of corporate Democrats lately toward their own base suggests that I'm right. They're *trying* to suppress the 2016 Democratic vote.


You can see quite a few of them in this thread: Dr Hobbitstein Feb 2015 #1
I've been seeing them a lot lately. MineralMan Feb 2015 #3
Thney would be willing to cede the WH to the Republicans... Historic NY Feb 2015 #28
So it seems. I'm not willing for that to happen. MineralMan Feb 2015 #31
I think many assume these posters actually vote for Democrats. I've never made that assumption. Tarheel_Dem Feb 2015 #81
Very interesting. MineralMan Feb 2015 #88
Great post! leftofcool Feb 2015 #2
Thanks for being part of the true Democratic base! MineralMan Feb 2015 #4
Nice callout. If you want my vote, you're going to have to select someone worth voting for. NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #5
Did you think my post was a call-out of you, personally? MineralMan Feb 2015 #6
That is a ridiculous notion. Callouts can be collective. NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #11
I walked our dogs earlier. After half a block, they were MineralMan Feb 2015 #15
This is a ridiculous notion of a call-out. nt pnwmom Feb 2015 #71
"Select someone worth voting for" Dr Hobbitstein Feb 2015 #7
No we don't. Back to school with you. Please read up on who comprises the electoral college. NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #14
No one said anything about the presidential run, the primary run is what this poster is talking uponit7771 Feb 2015 #19
I know how it works. Dr Hobbitstein Feb 2015 #20
When WE vote WE win... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #52
w.a.d Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #8
Hey Skp. I am not a one issue voter, I have many reasons I won't vote for Hillary. Autumn Feb 2015 #10
The funny thing is, Autumn... NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #13
I love Hillary. She's a wonderful woman and has done some awesome things Autumn Feb 2015 #39
+10000! Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #47
+1000 nt F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #63
jury result melm00se Feb 2015 #45
Hmmm... 99Forever Feb 2015 #49
Not my alert. I do not alert on posts that reply to my posts. MineralMan Feb 2015 #53
Interesting. I'm advocating for a better Democrat but it gets an alert. NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #66
You played that one every way possible, didn't you? bluedigger Feb 2015 #82
I'm with you, NYC_SKP. ladyVet Feb 2015 #84
I will do what I can during the primary process to select someone else. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2015 #9
We should all do that, I think. MineralMan Feb 2015 #12
I don't vote selfishly, I vote for who will be best for our country... JaneyVee Feb 2015 #16
Thank you for your common sense approach. MineralMan Feb 2015 #18
Way too much at stake. Funny thing is... JaneyVee Feb 2015 #23
Well, my current annual income certainly wouldn't put me MineralMan Feb 2015 #25
Another good reason for me never to vote Republican... JaneyVee Feb 2015 #29
I Believe A lot Of Independents Especially Women Will Vote For Hillary... Corey_Baker08 Feb 2015 #17
I suspect that you're right about that. MineralMan Feb 2015 #21
I suspect not. Dems to Win Feb 2015 #83
Yes Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2015 #60
An unanswered question is whether it will cut the other way. Jim Lane Feb 2015 #69
Good OP. Honestly, I don't think there will be that many liberals sitting out. DanTex Feb 2015 #22
I certainly hope not. MineralMan Feb 2015 #24
I'm currently uncommitted to a primary candidate*, but... greatauntoftriplets Feb 2015 #26
I won't because I think she'll lose to a Repub. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #27
So, you won't vote for her, because a Republican might win? MineralMan Feb 2015 #32
Me too. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #35
I think confirmation bias is at work here. MineralMan Feb 2015 #36
She runs. We lose. Android3.14 Feb 2015 #30
See, the thing is that there are 435 reasons to try to MineralMan Feb 2015 #33
Unless there is a change of message, we lose Android3.14 Feb 2015 #38
You refer to the Democrats as "they." MineralMan Feb 2015 #43
The Dems haven't felt like a "we" party in a long-long time Android3.14 Feb 2015 #46
The problem is that the millennials, and especially the young black millennials GuntherGebelWilliams Feb 2015 #41
Depends on which millennials you talk to. MineralMan Feb 2015 #44
I know a lot of them as well Android3.14 Feb 2015 #48
None of my three children or their SO's, all millennials, will vote for Hillary. Ikonoklast Feb 2015 #78
All the OP's on this reinforce my belief that the goal of both parties is a Republican in 2016. woo me with science Feb 2015 #34
Results of elections matter to people. MineralMan Feb 2015 #37
You're arguing a strawman and avoiding the actual content of my post. woo me with science Feb 2015 #65
+1000 snot Feb 2015 #70
You cannot post that list often enough woo. hifiguy Feb 2015 #87
Boxes: TBF Feb 2015 #40
Even the DNC can see the defeat coming Android3.14 Feb 2015 #42
I think it's too early to be having this discussion daredtowork Feb 2015 #50
People will vote in the general election still_one Feb 2015 #51
I will vote for the Democratic Candidate in the general election Gothmog Feb 2015 #54
We should all care very much who is appointed to SCOTUS. MineralMan Feb 2015 #55
Excellent OP, MineralMan. I agree 110%. BlueCaliDem Feb 2015 #56
Thank you. MineralMan Feb 2015 #58
You're welcome. Well deserved. Again, excellent OP. BlueCaliDem Feb 2015 #62
I've never voted for a nominee that was my actual first choice nor one I particularly liked Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #57
Good parallel. Beef or Chicken. MineralMan Feb 2015 #59
"Political purity" is shit. The only thing that counts is WINNING DinahMoeHum Feb 2015 #61
+1. Thanks! MineralMan Feb 2015 #68
Try to consider other people's experiences jeff47 Feb 2015 #64
I'd give you the same advice. MineralMan Feb 2015 #67
No, I don't want more Republicans. I want actual Democrats jeff47 Feb 2015 #77
Your last paragraph was Nader's basic argument in 2000. pnwmom Feb 2015 #72
And keeping us at the bottom won't change that. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2015 #74
5 Million US Dollars Cash, 20’s and 10’s erstickendarauf Feb 2015 #73
No worries. I don't have the money, and have no idea MineralMan Feb 2015 #75
Flamebait for flamebait's sake. Ken Burch Feb 2015 #76
I believe so too. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #79
Why Do Democrats Always Have To Settle For Corporate Candidates? cantbeserious Feb 2015 #80
Mine is always a protest vote. LiberalAndProud Feb 2015 #85
If the polling here in Minnesota is very close hifiguy Feb 2015 #86
Yes, there are people that will vote for HRC and some that won't. Rex Feb 2015 #89
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