General Discussion

MADem

(135,425 posts)

283. The subject line title divides the board and spoils for a fight. It was unnecessary.

Tue Feb 24, 2015, 02:08 AM

Feb 2015

The actual title of the article would have worked just fine, and maybe encouraged more productive conversation.

This kind of stuff is just unhelpful. Starting out with an exhortation to "Choose Sides" about whether an award should be given is a poor tactic if anyone wants genuine discussion. The AWARD, which is for the film MAKERS, is a separate issue from the conduct of the subject of the film or one's approval/disapproval of what he did, but the subject line convolutes the two issues. One can love the film and hate the "star" of it, or love the "star" and hate the film--they don't HAVE to go together, but this thread demands otherwise.

We'll never know, in this thread, anyway, if there was any real "discussion" to be had about the AWARD given by the MPAAS--never mind Snowden's actions--because the well has been pretty much poisoned by the subject line framing of the article.

Your last sentence sounds a lot like "You're with 'im, or agin' 'im." We'd really "all be better off without their 'discussion' anyway?" Only praise is allowed? No dissent? Everyone go along with the program? There's only one acceptable point of view? Hmm. See how you sound? Hint: Not good.

You can choose to try to elevate the discourse, or not. I can't demand, but I can--and will--point out.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

514 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Suck it up, Snowden-haters: New Yorker on "Why Citizenfour Deserved Its Oscar" [View all] 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 OP

So because the documentary won an Oscar....that vindicates Snowden? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #1

Excuse me for celebrating the truth being told so boldly 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #5

Answer the question about Anerican Sniper treestar Feb 2015 #103

Fine. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #192

You said that and you haven't even seen the movie? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #275

Which movie? 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #285

That is what I am talking about.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #319

Don't Engage The NSA Lovers billhicks76 Feb 2015 #329

and I rec your post! well said! n/t wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #342

Why, can't debate? treestar Feb 2015 #356

It's emotional for them, not logical ConservativeDemocrat Feb 2015 #369

Interesting point about how they might use it for good treestar Feb 2015 #411

You Are Absurd billhicks76 Feb 2015 #494

That's just crazy treestar Feb 2015 #496

Yes They Can...You Need To Read More billhicks76 Feb 2015 #499

Dream On billhicks76 Feb 2015 #475

This ^^ AzDar Feb 2015 #431

Ah, one of my fave DU cliches ... NanceGreggs Feb 2015 #491

How About If You Support Snowden Then You're A Paulite billhicks76 Feb 2015 #505

The fact remains ... NanceGreggs Feb 2015 #506

You said suck it up treestar Feb 2015 #355

Please stop complaining. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #365

Non-responsive treestar Feb 2015 #406

OK - I appreciate that. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #407

Why is it wrong in itself to have a problem with them? treestar Feb 2015 #412

Now we're splitting hairs 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #415

"truth being told so boldly" from an undisclosed location in Moscow? George II Feb 2015 #107

.. because the US Gov't has strayed from its claims to legitimacy 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #181

How has it done that? George II Feb 2015 #191

By authorizing 24/7 100%-penetration spying on the American citizenry 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #209

PLUS ONE, a huge bunch! Enthusiast Feb 2015 #314

Your first sentence is untrue treestar Feb 2015 #358

-10 nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #363

This message was self-deleted by its author 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #206

As opposed to Russia which has invaded the Ukraine? cstanleytech Feb 2015 #211

Listen. Just because there is a WORSE government than ours 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #219

But that "worse" government is the one Snowden has chosen to embrace in lieu of his own. George II Feb 2015 #220

To the shame of the USA, IMHO 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #221

No, that is to the shame of Snowden. cstanleytech Feb 2015 #224

The shame is that he fled the country, unlike most others in similar positions, who WERE heroes George II Feb 2015 #229

+1 uhnope Feb 2015 #249

Nevermind that heroes like Daniel Ellsberg have endorsed Snowden's decision to leave n/t markpkessinger Feb 2015 #254

Yes, we can disagree with Daniel Ellsberg on the subject treestar Feb 2015 #414

I still find it odd that people don't find him a hero but rpannier Feb 2015 #272

Don't forget... freebrew Feb 2015 #339

"Chosen to embrace?" markpkessinger Feb 2015 #253

What was he doing in Moscow in the first place? Presumably his final destination..... George II Feb 2015 #267

He faced ZERO possibility of a fair trial in the U.S. markpkessinger Feb 2015 #277

Everyone charged with a crime could say that treestar Feb 2015 #497

Not everyone who is charged with a crime . . . markpkessinger Feb 2015 #502

So in the absence of facts you are making stuff up now? blackspade Feb 2015 #384

What did I make up? George II Feb 2015 #399

Your speculation is entirely made up. blackspade Feb 2015 #424

You mean he didn't go to Hong Kong? He didn't go to Moscow? He didn't have a ticket to Havana? George II Feb 2015 #439

You know what I meant comrade blackspade Feb 2015 #465

I wasn't aware that the United States' legitimacy was defined in relation to Russia n/t markpkessinger Feb 2015 #252

Its not which makes me wonder why he choose Russia cstanleytech Feb 2015 #260

So far as I know . . . markpkessinger Feb 2015 #278

It does however have a heliport. nt cstanleytech Feb 2015 #295

So tell me . . . markpkessinger Feb 2015 #341

By contacting the Vatican and asking them to provide a private cstanleytech Feb 2015 #450

U.S. allies forced the Bolivian president's plane to land based on a rumor Snowden was on board . . markpkessinger Feb 2015 #452

I dont know if they would divert it but they might not be as tempted cstanleytech Feb 2015 #453

"Might" is one helluva gamble . . . markpkessinger Feb 2015 #455

I think it was better gamble than going to Russia even if it wasnt part of his plan cstanleytech Feb 2015 #456

I doubt the Vatican would have permitted itself to be placed in that position in the first place n/t markpkessinger Feb 2015 #458

Oh you are probably about that but I think he probably safer there than I suspect he will cstanleytech Feb 2015 #459

That very well could be . . . markpkessinger Feb 2015 #461

irrelevent! wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #343

There's an entire law passed by that constitutional democracy treestar Feb 2015 #357

The NSA 100% penetration spying on Americans 24/7 is an unconstitutional abomination. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #367

Problem is though Snowden also released alot of other information that wasnt about cstanleytech Feb 2015 #451

I have yet to see any credible evidence that the Snowden file 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #462

Problem is I only pointed out that some of the cstanleytech Feb 2015 #463

The Constitution & Bill of Rights are higher laws 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #490

Sorry but neither of those gives anyone a right to break the law. nt cstanleytech Feb 2015 #495

. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #498

Boy that sucker is going off maybe you should try reducing the amount you produce? cstanleytech Feb 2015 #500

So, explain how the "Whistleblower law to back up it being enforced properly." blackspade Feb 2015 #389

Red baiting, the last gasp of the far right as they cling to the past where every one on the 'left' sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #478

Nice use of illogical fallacy, "So because the documentary won an Oscar....that vindicates Snowden?" rhett o rick Feb 2015 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author elias49 Feb 2015 #86

and WHO is using the Logical Fallacy? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #147

Which guy believes an Oscar vindicates Snowden? nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #408

Apparently the guy that wrote this OP who now admits ha hasn't even seen the movie! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #445

Let's get back to the logical fallacy, strawman, you set up when you infer that the rhett o rick Feb 2015 #446

Nothing illogical about it....what IS illogical...is making the proclamation..."suck it up" VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #447

I absolutely agree. nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #449

Umm, that clearly was *not* the point of the OP. -eom gcomeau Feb 2015 #291

+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #315

precisely! n/t wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #344

How predictable. Scuba Feb 2015 #12

Yes sometimes the truth IS predictable isn't it? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #148

The truth is that only authoritarians think Snowden needs any 'vindication.' Scuba Feb 2015 #212

What it specifically means is that among voting members of the Academy who are documentary film Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #15

It's a good documentary. Especially when you contrast it with Snowden's 'live' performances. msanthrope Feb 2015 #24

Excellent point. joshcryer Feb 2015 #258

Careful editing and very good direction. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #264

Do you know people in the Academy who vote on the films? JDPriestly Feb 2015 #104

Documentarians in the Academy decide on the list of nominees. MADem Feb 2015 #284

And people who make documentaries probably care very much about the content, subject JDPriestly Feb 2015 #288

Again? I think you are confusing me with someone else. MADem Feb 2015 #290

Sorry if I confused you with someone else. I was out at a meeting between posts. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #297

Then what was this snarky OP about? Certainly not the quality of the film.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #149

"Vindicates?" Most people don't share your view that Snowden's heroism needs "vindication." PSPS Feb 2015 #29

Actually most people do....its a crime...by any stretch of the imagination... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #150

I guess we'll put this under #13 PSPS Feb 2015 #170

No lets file this under...."the truth hurts sometimes doesn't it?" VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #172

Good point LiberalLovinLug Feb 2015 #231

+1 Enthusiast Feb 2015 #316

+2 nt grasswire Feb 2015 #428

NO YOU are the one that is keeping Odd company on a Democratic site... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #437

"Heroism"? Running off to a country that just three decades ago was our greatest enemy.... George II Feb 2015 #171

More red baiting... blackspade Feb 2015 #394

So then why were Hong Kong and Havana also on his itinerary? George II Feb 2015 #401

You tell me comrade George.... blackspade Feb 2015 #409

oh brother -- CREATIVE SPECULATION! grasswire Feb 2015 #429

"Creative Speculation"? He DID go to Hong Kong and Moscow, and he DID have a ticket to Havana. George II Feb 2015 #442

yes, but you are implying that he's a communist fellow traveler because of that itinerary. grasswire Feb 2015 #448

What did he do wrong? He reported crimes against the Constitution to the American people. Can you sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #45

Some are probably worried... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2015 #88

I know. And that is so sad, that people would care more about sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #109

Most want their team to win... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2015 #122

I understand that, I wanted our team to win also because I thought 'winning' meant something sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #129

I agree fully... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2015 #133

"Your team"???? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #151

You completely missed the point and what sabrina meant by "team". cui bono Feb 2015 #157

No actually I didn't.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #158

Yes, actually, you did. But that's okay, no one else did! sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #217

This message was self-deleted by its author Long Drive Feb 2015 #256

No I didn't and you know that.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #276

'My team' = Democratic Party, the Blue Team. Now read it again and read the post I responded to. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #279

If you cannot pledge to support the winner of the Democratic Primary....EVEN if that is VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #318

Wow! sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #364

Like I said...you don't understand the meaning of a "team" VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #370

You don't understand teams. Teams need good coaches in order to keep winning. The coaches sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #397

a President is not a coach....a President is a Leader.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #402

teams NEED loyal players...that is all...WE are NOT the management... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #435

I just explained what a team is to you. Politicians are the players, WE ARE THE MANAGEMENT. They sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #476

that isn't a team you describe grasswire Feb 2015 #430

Yes...IT is a team....and a good team REQUIRES team loyalty! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #436

Thank you, scary isn't it? Pledges of loyalty to OUR employees, who ever HEARD of such a thing in a sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #477

Who ever heard of such a thing in Democracy? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #486

Oh Great.... Loyalty Oaths. bvar22 Feb 2015 #493

yes, you did awoke_in_2003 Feb 2015 #304

No I didn't....and the point still stands! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #323

yes you did but keep denying it! n/t wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #345

I deny nothing....what is YOUR description of a team by the way? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #371

well... wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #376

Just as I thought....you cannot describe a team VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #380

ok then. wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #382

Exactly! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #383

feeling like some sort of big shot now!? wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #390

And had you watched the Doc... ReRe Feb 2015 #273

yep! thank you. n/t wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #393

You and I are becoming fast friends. ReRe Feb 2015 #425

cool! wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #427

Nobody will rein in anything. Whatever we can do we will, wether we want to believe it or not. Pisces Feb 2015 #351

You don't think they already know? nt awoke_in_2003 Feb 2015 #443

Your conclusions are off treestar Feb 2015 #106

How fucking hard is this to understand? gcomeau Feb 2015 #289

Citation? blackspade Feb 2015 #398

Here you go. gcomeau Feb 2015 #438

Thanks. blackspade Feb 2015 #464

This message was self-deleted by its author grasswire Feb 2015 #444

Can you explain why Muhammad Ali went to jail? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #321

Yes, because something went terribly wrong with this democracy back then. And now it has gone sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #362

No...its called COURAGE! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #372

even if THAT means supporting criminal activity....Yeah I get it! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #374

Well, unless our Intel community are lying to us, again, we DO know. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #392

Are you sure you want to be the 1st Responder. bahrbearian Feb 2015 #46

Yes I am sure.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #159

your point about American Sniper is right on uhnope Feb 2015 #63

uhhh ... nope. n/t SaveOurDemocracy Feb 2015 #83

Uh yes it is..... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #322

+10000000 treestar Feb 2015 #110

But American Sniper didn't win and for good reason. I would not even watch it. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #113

I respect that. uhnope Feb 2015 #121

I already know what war does to families. Don't need to see the film. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #199

Yep. Being a soldier destroyed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi families. Luminous Animal Feb 2015 #223

+1 ozone_man Feb 2015 #261

and that is also not what I asked.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #152

Some would. And some would see it as a loss for their team. I would. But I might change my JDPriestly Feb 2015 #198

What Snowden revealed is the only vindication he needs pscot Feb 2015 #71

actually its still a crime....not vindicated... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #153

OK... ReRe Feb 2015 #281

You know that is exactly what Conservatives say, right? randome Feb 2015 #337

Its exactly what this Liberal says actually. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #375

I don't know what the Conservatives say. ReRe Feb 2015 #422

It used to be a crime Caretha Feb 2015 #324

one was a documentary, one was a work of fiction. two different genres. niyad Feb 2015 #76

Still didn't answer the question.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #155

meaning is in the mind of the beholder. there are many who believe that snowden niyad Feb 2015 #202

I've seen award winning movies about Al Capone and Bonnie and Clyde..... George II Feb 2015 #105

Precisely! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #156

Nope. Snowden requires no vindication. JackRiddler Feb 2015 #141

This whole "Snowden is God because he won an Oscar" thing is just about the dumbest thing Number23 Feb 2015 #240

is that the sound of it being sucked up? lild Feb 2015 #248

not unless that is what laughter sounds like to you... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #274

Chauncey Gardner speaks! Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #480

Hell, I'm *glad* he won Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #2

Even if, and that's a big if, he's caught, Unknown Beatle Feb 2015 #16

there can be no downfall grasswire Feb 2015 #26

A shame he doesn't have the stones to "start that conversation" in Moscow.... Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #85

It is not having stones that you are suggesting, it is being stupid. zeemike Feb 2015 #135

back away from the spy novels.... grasswire Feb 2015 #144

I think it might be personal, grasswire. There's something pathological going on there. 2banon Feb 2015 #467

oh really grasswire Feb 2015 #468

The Greenwald/Poitras/Snowden/Guardian team has already won so many honors that any JDPriestly Feb 2015 #117

I cherish Aerows Feb 2015 #241

Right, Aerows... ReRe Feb 2015 #280

Upton Sinclair... merrily Feb 2015 #301

Yeah... ReRe Feb 2015 #423

A-fucking-men! n/t wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #348

I think you are supposed to cackle maniacally when quoting supervillains lild Feb 2015 #246

I'm still waiting for those promised links, in which you will prove Greenwald is a liar. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #334

.... 2banon Feb 2015 #466

Well, that was a nasty and confrontational subject line, wasn't it? MADem Feb 2015 #3

Title line of op were 1/2 my words .. yep. So what? 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #7

You led with the nasty. Your choice. Whatever. nt MADem Feb 2015 #8

What's that word again? BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #82

There's no "irony" in leading with a divisive subject line to start a thread. MADem Feb 2015 #286

Well--given the last OP--that was deleted by this poster, natch.....this is a step up!!! msanthrope Feb 2015 #18

I am just getting tired of "anticipated confrontation." MADem Feb 2015 #28

It's easy to post articles--harder so to defend an ideal with articles. A lost art here on DU. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #33

"Team sports" or "high school cliques!" MADem Feb 2015 #39

And rec-gaining....as if the multidude of one's socks meant approval....nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #43

Sad that this drives people so profoundly. I mean, really--it's supposed to be a nice way to pass MADem Feb 2015 #54

For shits and giggles....if you click on some recs, you'll see that the only time in the last 6 msanthrope Feb 2015 #58

Admins should start doing some IP checks--couldn't hurt. Might help. nt MADem Feb 2015 #62

I think admin just ought to collect fees. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #64

Maybe this should devolve to a paid membership site--something's gotta give. MADem Feb 2015 #69

Results Bobbie Jo Feb 2015 #271

My, my....Hit a little close to home, I guess. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #332

The thread last night discussing the Oscar win.. one_voice Feb 2015 #95

Yes, and why would you think that? It could have been directed at right wingers. cui bono Feb 2015 #99

Do you often post on a Democratic site... one_voice Feb 2015 #165

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. cui bono Feb 2015 #169

Unfortunately it increasingly seems so. Lots of conservatives nowadays. TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #227

Hee hee---you gave me my laugh of the day! MADem Feb 2015 #108

Calling out and insulting with pettiness the last time, too..eh? I can kind of tell by the replies. Cha Feb 2015 #259

Worse...disgusting OP source, left up, far too long. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #265

There was never "discussion" to be had from the more virulent Snowden attackers. Marr Feb 2015 #111

The subject line title divides the board and spoils for a fight. It was unnecessary. MADem Feb 2015 #283

+1. merrily Feb 2015 #306

Yes, quite "republican", like "why do you hate America" or "you're either with us or against us"! George II Feb 2015 #114

Much more like "Hillary haters," "Obama haters," etc. merrily Feb 2015 #307

So true treestar Feb 2015 #115

Hehe...Comrade Eddie. So apropos. eom BlueCaliDem Feb 2015 #327

DUer msanthrope I think started it! treestar Feb 2015 #354

LOL, whining about titles now? Hit a nerve? nt Logical Feb 2015 #208

You really think a subject line "calling out" board members is helpful? MADem Feb 2015 #282

And when you consider that by every measure, it is conservatives that have supported Snowden Number23 Feb 2015 #244

"it is conservatives that have supported Snowden" (Number23, post 244) bvar22 Feb 2015 #433

Yes, don't let the several articles I linked to that CONFIRM what I wrote distort your foolish Number23 Feb 2015 #434

Much like the omnipresent references to "Hillary haters," "Obama haters," etc. merrily Feb 2015 #305

Here come the authoritarians. This thread is guaranteed a hundred plus replies with little substance Electric Monk Feb 2015 #4

As I mentioned above: "Whistle-blowers are heroes to those that value freedom. They are despised by rhett o rick Feb 2015 #11

I must admit, I didn't expect this to pass 500 replies, but here we are. Can it make a thousand? nt Electric Monk Feb 2015 #510

LOL, do we need to explain to Amy Davidson that "prosecute him under the Espionage Act" won't FSogol Feb 2015 #6

Nah... I think "persecute him under the Espionage Act" works better in that instance! cascadiance Feb 2015 #27

Citizenfour on HBO tonight at 9 p.m. PADemD Feb 2015 #10

It's free on the Internets. Cryptome should have it. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #19

I'm watching� Here's more info... MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #137

Some may want to "hang the traitor" but fact is, he should not have to even face trial. Scuba Feb 2015 #13

Snowden believes leakers should be shot. His words. NYC Liberal Feb 2015 #41

Believes or believed? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #77

Yeah, and he changed his mind. That's like saying Obama doesn't believe in gay marriage. nt F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #78

Oh, and what does he think about Social Security? Does he still think NYC Liberal Feb 2015 #167

That's all well and good. F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #173

I look at the full picture. Just because Dick Cheney supports same-sex marriage doesn't mean NYC Liberal Feb 2015 #195

What does that have to do with anything? cui bono Feb 2015 #175

I don't support right-wing nuts. You're welcome to. NYC Liberal Feb 2015 #193

So you would sit in a burning theater rather than listen to a teabagger tell you it's on fire? cui bono Feb 2015 #197

Nope. I just wouldn't call myself a supporter. NYC Liberal Feb 2015 #239

"Liberal." Maedhros Feb 2015 #230

Liberals don't support right-wing libertarians who hate Social Security. NYC Liberal Feb 2015 #236

Yep... right about the time the white house changed hands. -eom gcomeau Feb 2015 #292

Obama used to believe in denying gays their right to marriage equality. He changed his mind riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #81

Yes, but did Obama express hatred for LGBT individuals? randome Feb 2015 #91

Maybe he learned new facts about what was going on in our government and that is why he JDPriestly Feb 2015 #124

He wasn't an intelligence analyst. How would he have known anything? randome Feb 2015 #132

Please read Greenwald's book. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #203

No, I have an enormous backlog of books to read. randome Feb 2015 #210

Lol! Now its degrees of changing one's mind?! Your shtick is old riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #126

It's not a schtick. It's an opinion, as is yours. randome Feb 2015 #138

This message was self-deleted by its author wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #350

Why the shrug? You have no confidence in your insult? randome Feb 2015 #352

not an insult but an observation... wildbilln864 Feb 2015 #353

You do realize that people can change their minds, right? cui bono Feb 2015 #96

And what corruption would that be, regarding Snowden's documents? randome Feb 2015 #100

Have you read Greenwald's book, No Place to Hide? JDPriestly Feb 2015 #130

You do not own national security documents. Sorry, but no country tolerates leakers. randome Feb 2015 #136

Funny how you refuse to use the term whisteblower. n/t cui bono Feb 2015 #160

Not so funny. There are specific procedures to follow for being a whistleblower. randome Feb 2015 #164

And as has been noted hundreds of times on this board and many times in documentaries cui bono Feb 2015 #174

'Enormous increase'? A total of 8 individuals have been prosecuted under the Espionage Act... randome Feb 2015 #177

It only took 5 prosecutions to make it more than all other presidents combined. cui bono Feb 2015 #182

The people own the naitonal security documents. Leaking to the people who own the documents JDPriestly Feb 2015 #201

I never said Snowden is guilty of treason or is a traitor. randome Feb 2015 #204

"Checks and balances" refers to the system of government, not to any specific statute. merrily Feb 2015 #308

He was a whistleblower. Why are you so adamant that he is a criminal? cui bono Feb 2015 #168

Obama pushed the FISA Amendments Act to put greater restrictions on how data is handled. randome Feb 2015 #176

Obama pushed to legalize the illegal warrantless wiretapping BushCo did. cui bono Feb 2015 #178

Is there a difference between a "leaker" and a "whistleblower"? Martin Eden Feb 2015 #325

+1 Enthusiast Feb 2015 #317

Why ever not? treestar Feb 2015 #416

"Where he fled to if they decide to accuse him of anything, does he think the trial would be fairer? Scuba Feb 2015 #441

See I have no problem giving credit where credit is due... one_voice Feb 2015 #14

Well said, thank you. mountain grammy Feb 2015 #17

It's a very good documentary. So was Triumph of the Will. Just as American Sniper is a well-made msanthrope Feb 2015 #20

Yes, like when the media is urging us to go to war... Fumesucker Feb 2015 #214

Indeed...I've often wondered why the Left only challenges the motivations msanthrope Feb 2015 #269

You know that liberal media, liberals just love it.. Fumesucker Feb 2015 #270

Well--certainly claiming that one is "Liberal" causes some on the Left to lose perspective..... msanthrope Feb 2015 #336

Generallly I watch who attacks the content and who attacks the source Fumesucker Feb 2015 #346

And there, you've illustrated the problem, perfectly. You seem to msanthrope Feb 2015 #359

"some sources are so repugnant in their agenda that their content is beneath contempt." Fumesucker Feb 2015 #360

I believe you meant credible, not credulous. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #377

I'll let my autocorrect know you object to its grammar. It will be hurt.....but I give you this.... msanthrope Feb 2015 #379

It completely changes the meaning of the word. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #381

I'm sure it does, and I'm delighted that you took the time and effort to monitor my posts to msanthrope Feb 2015 #387

Have a nice day. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #391

You, too!!! I'll be posting a few more things today, perhaps you can monitor them for me msanthrope Feb 2015 #395

Good heavens. I think you're suggesting that we discuss things on a discussion board. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #400

Triumph of the Will was a flop Fred Drum Feb 2015 #255

It was one of the three most profitable films that year... joshcryer Feb 2015 #262

Yes.....like Birth of a Nation, and American Sniper, it is a brilliant film....it serves msanthrope Feb 2015 #268

except that Sontag said the exact opposite reorg Feb 2015 #294

It is an excellent documentary, which is the point of what Sontag said. That it cannot be msanthrope Feb 2015 #340

actually, it isn't even a documentary at all reorg Feb 2015 #479

It's "one of the greatest films in history." Propaganda, but a great film, technically speaking. MADem Feb 2015 #302

Triumph of the Will was a Nazi government commissioned propaganda film not a documentary. merrily Feb 2015 #309

Indeed....but all documentaries are propaganda. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #331

Maybe, but Triumph of the Will is not comparable to a privately made documentary. merrily Feb 2015 #472

what utter bull reorg Feb 2015 #481

Yes. Well said. randome Feb 2015 #21

OK, maybe it was a bit snarky, I'll admit that. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #22

Because we don't accept that people are "whistleblowers" just because they say they are. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #31

The whole freaking world "knows" Snowden is a whistle-blower 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #42

Um, no--the "whole freakin' world" does not. Which is why Comrade Eddie is too scared to face msanthrope Feb 2015 #51

I don't care if he fled to Mars, JEB Feb 2015 #67

You never want to see sausage made, then....nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #73

Is that a snarky way of defending spying JEB Feb 2015 #75

Illegal surveillance isn't something I support. I just don't get too bothered msanthrope Feb 2015 #90

Did you really say Caretha Feb 2015 #326

Careful Caretha. Puglover Feb 2015 #328

"Grannie?" Why is that term an insult to you? Yes--Comrade Eddie. Guess who I call "James Blond?" msanthrope Feb 2015 #335

We all get snarky... one_voice Feb 2015 #36

Hit the edit button and change it. Until you do, the snark is going to be a distraction. DonViejo Feb 2015 #37

Since many of the replies have referred to that, I'm not changing it. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #47

Good. nt elias49 Feb 2015 #94

then you DO think that the Oscar vindicated Snowden? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #162

The Oscar certainly doesn't hurt 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #179

Bingo. Game-set-match! MADem Feb 2015 #32

Same for Eastwood here, too. And Ray Bradbury. randome Feb 2015 #40

Exactly... one_voice Feb 2015 #48

"The fact that I'm told to suck it up on a Democratic board gives me pause." bahrbearian Feb 2015 #52

So you admit you are a Snowden Hater. one_voice Feb 2015 #72

Whatever happened to 'it's not the person, it's the message'? revmclaren Feb 2015 #80

Do you also agree that the swiftboating of GG is no better than teabaggers? n/t cui bono Feb 2015 #112

Since you're asking me a question that has nothing.. one_voice Feb 2015 #166

Exactly. treestar Feb 2015 #118

Perfect Response! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #163

I prefer the term 'Snowden mocker'. randome Feb 2015 #23

get a new schtick. grasswire Feb 2015 #30

I know, Snowden has so failed to live up to the hype I posted, right? randome Feb 2015 #35

Thank you. LeftOfWest Feb 2015 #55

At this point, unlike the NSA, Snowden certainly has little or no reason to lie about any of this, 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #34

Whistle blowers? No. Leakers? Well, I say laws and statutes should address that. randome Feb 2015 #38

Hmm... Is Twitter suing the NSA if the claim that the NSA had access to their data is "bullshit"? cascadiance Feb 2015 #44

That's not about 'secret' or 'direct' access. randome Feb 2015 #50

Umm.. Twitter is suing because they are not ALLOWED (Aka NOT "public") to talk about... cascadiance Feb 2015 #60

Do you EVER know if a warrant is legitimate or not? randome Feb 2015 #65

If you're speaking of the FISA court, guess who nominated ALL of the justices on that court? cascadiance Feb 2015 #84

Yeah, I know all about that. It's all one gigantic conspiracy... randome Feb 2015 #87

Because those who DO have evidence to support it have to leave the country... cascadiance Feb 2015 #98

John Kiriakou defended waterboarding, and Sibel Edmonds thinks Greenwald is a piece of crap---a msanthrope Feb 2015 #338

So... You are saying that Kiriako defended waterboarding more than others and cascadiance Feb 2015 #366

In the thousands of requests for secret Warrants from FISA, bvar22 Feb 2015 #102

We've been down this road before. randome Feb 2015 #119

You're not going to claim that 33,000 warrants means the NSA is spying on the world, are you? randome Feb 2015 #120

THanks for answering my question. bvar22 Feb 2015 #142

33,000 warrants out of 300,000,000 citizens. randome Feb 2015 #146

Not exactly since Obama pushed to legalize what was illegal under BushCo. cui bono Feb 2015 #187

Well, I never weighed in on anything the NSA was doing before Snowden. randome Feb 2015 #196

And then when that evidence is presented you are prepared to throw the whistleblower in jail? cui bono Feb 2015 #200

I will always support whistleblowers. But not self-described heroic leakers. randome Feb 2015 #215

NSA admitted to "downloading the internet." joshcryer Feb 2015 #53

If you're talking about Bush's AT&T operation, that was not the entire Internet. randome Feb 2015 #57

Yeah, it's all public plaintext. joshcryer Feb 2015 #128

It's only Powerpoint slides! They don't prove anything! DesMoinesDem Feb 2015 #56

A fool is someone who hands millions of documents over to corporate media offices... randome Feb 2015 #61

You still don't have any grasp of what was on those 'fake' slides. DesMoinesDem Feb 2015 #66

They weren't fake slides. S&G simply misinterpreted them. randome Feb 2015 #68

According to you powerpoint slides weren't evidence of anything. DesMoinesDem Feb 2015 #74

I never said they were evidence of nothing. They were clearly 'evidence' of PRISM. randome Feb 2015 #79

I remember clearly how you would go on and on about how they were only powerpoint slides. DesMoinesDem Feb 2015 #134

I hadn't thought about the NSA for probably years before Snowden. randome Feb 2015 #139

This schtick is only getting more pathetic. Marr Feb 2015 #97

Well said it 99th! :) Helen Borg Feb 2015 #25

Let me know when the laws are repealed. joshcryer Feb 2015 #49

Actually,, it's a thread about an Oscar winning documentary merrily Feb 2015 #310

How does that disagree with what I've said? joshcryer Feb 2015 #312

What I disagreed with is obvious to anyone who can read and cares to see it. merrily Feb 2015 #474

K&R DeSwiss Feb 2015 #59

Suck it up, America haters, while you're at it BeyondGeography Feb 2015 #70

Who are the "America haters"? n/t cui bono Feb 2015 #89

Are you saying a fair portion of this board doesn't think we are the most vile, BeyondGeography Feb 2015 #116

I asked a question, I never made any statement. Care to answer? n/t cui bono Feb 2015 #154

Wow, welcome to 2003. Marr Feb 2015 #93

You are either with us or you are with the terrorists Mnpaul Feb 2015 #125

What does that have to do with us being spied upon? LittleBlue Feb 2015 #123

' America haters' KG Feb 2015 #127

They get jailed, video confiscated, and deported. joshcryer Feb 2015 #188

When someone can be widely applauded *and* called a "traitor"... Marr Feb 2015 #92

Both views are tolerated BeyondGeography Feb 2015 #140

I agree with you 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #185

Uh, the film is *about* an American whistleblower who is currently hiding from his own government Marr Feb 2015 #186

Who fled to Russia, where you can get killed for making films like Citizenfour BeyondGeography Feb 2015 #347

What a sad rationalization. If someone punches you in the gut, Marr Feb 2015 #361

K&R. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #101

I had to chuckle Android3.14 Feb 2015 #131

K&R Thank you, Edward Snowden. woo me with science Feb 2015 #143

It's not DU's "haters" he has to worry about. Tarheel_Dem Feb 2015 #145

there it is... grasswire Feb 2015 #189

"If the goal was to help his pal Pooty Poot..." cui bono Feb 2015 #205

Awwww.. poor Snowden.. he's trying his damnedest to spread USA hate.. not sure if ol Putin is egging Cha Feb 2015 #266

Still can't believe he said that. I agree with Bill Maher, "he's stupid" & he has "machismo". Tarheel_Dem Feb 2015 #388

I found Harris's joke to be in incredibly poor taste . . . markpkessinger Feb 2015 #161

^^^ this ^^^ malokvale77 Feb 2015 #183

+100 good one. nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #194

And the apologists who accept it without questioning. n/t cui bono Feb 2015 #207

And worse, defend it. (nt) malokvale77 Feb 2015 #216

You might want to look up the definition of treason then as none of those parties mentioned cstanleytech Feb 2015 #226

As far as I am concerned... malokvale77 Feb 2015 #233

Your concerns are immaterial to what the law says is treason and cstanleytech Feb 2015 #237

I agree on the Snowden part. malokvale77 Feb 2015 #242

Try wiki cstanleytech Feb 2015 #245

So wiki is the decider. malokvale77 Feb 2015 #247

Nope its just information. Its up to you to decide if you cstanleytech Feb 2015 #250

Agreed, although I should add . . . markpkessinger Feb 2015 #238

Yes malokvale77 Feb 2015 #243

K & R malokvale77 Feb 2015 #180

heehee, way to piss off the MIC lovin' authoritarian corporatists!!! Zorra Feb 2015 #184

Credit to 99th_Monkey for getting the fish to bite... Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #190

Aww malokvale77 Feb 2015 #213

Oh, by all means smart guy Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #298

OK, good for you. (nt) malokvale77 Feb 2015 #299

A shame... Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #300

That is not why people avoid your threads. bvar22 Feb 2015 #492

Look At All The Authoritarins In This Thread... And Some Say... They Pratcice Law... WillyT Feb 2015 #218

I'd sooner trust any DUer who demonstrates a knowledge of the law... randome Feb 2015 #222

What About A Knowledge Of Justice, And The Constitution ??? WillyT Feb 2015 #225

So Snowden is a Constitutional scholar now? I wasn't aware of that. randome Feb 2015 #313

has the law Eddie would be charged under been treestar Feb 2015 #421

Er, most cases have two sides? treestar Feb 2015 #420

It's entirely acceptable to dislike Snowden, the person. Maedhros Feb 2015 #228

There are those who would have us believe Michael Moore, Greenwald and other investigative whereisjustice Feb 2015 #232

Well said 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #234

Those who hate investigative journalists are more comfortable with GE and Monsanto whereisjustice Feb 2015 #235

An award for entertainment, Progressive dog Feb 2015 #251

Documentaries are generally much more than 'intertainment' 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #257

The award is for entertainment, and that is probably Progressive dog Feb 2015 #263

Are you really claiming that just because Progressive dog Feb 2015 #484

Chelsea Manning 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #489

"Black Fox: The Rise and Fall of Adolf Hitler," "Anne Frank Remembered,"... WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2015 #457

I didn't say it wasn't a good film Progressive dog Feb 2015 #482

K&R ReRe Feb 2015 #287

Sadly, I don't have HBO 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #293

Dayam :-( ReRe Feb 2015 #419

AKA "SWOONERS" Skittles Feb 2015 #296

Thank you, Snowden and all who've helped get his messages out. snot Feb 2015 #303

There's only one reason why a film should win an Oscar for best documentary and that is that merrily Feb 2015 #311

yawn B Calm Feb 2015 #320

Wait, I can't be proud that Greenwald won and still have a dislike for Snowden LynneSin Feb 2015 #330

k/R. Your OP has certainly brought them out. marmar Feb 2015 #333

Meanwhile, your boy Greenie is on MSNBC decrying the Oscar's "disgusting opulence" Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #349

And if he did the opposite? LiberalLovinLug Feb 2015 #373

He hasn't made it very easy for you. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #378

nor really a hater of anyone PatrynXX Feb 2015 #368

You don't hate traitors? You are so kind LiberalLovinLug Feb 2015 #386

This thread (and topic) sucks. randome Feb 2015 #385

Had you watched the documentary, you'd know. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #403

How did he win? WHAT did he win? randome Feb 2015 #426

What he won is entirely subjective. But he did address this point. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2015 #432

I saw the documentary. Snowden, IMO, articulated what he wanted to win, which was indeed Nay Feb 2015 #508

If only more government contractors did what Snowden did when they disagreed with policy. randome Feb 2015 #512

What a strange OP... "suck it up!" TerrapinFlyer Feb 2015 #396

never be afraid to stand up for what is right WDIM Feb 2015 #404

+100 nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #405

Bravo---410+ posts and still going strong Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #410

That's entirely up to you, if your opinion is moved by the Oscar win. 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #413

True...Good points Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #417

Here's hoping 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #418

This is a huge thread, just making sure everything is ok. Did you eat the fish or chicken? Rex Feb 2015 #440

Kick !!! WillyT Feb 2015 #454

My thoughts on this thread. Old and In the Way Feb 2015 #460

Those of you in this thread regurgitating the usual talking points who Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #469

I'm watching now -- and WOW JonLP24 Feb 2015 #470

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #471

Just saw CITIZENFOUR today. AtomicKitten Feb 2015 #473

This has been an entertaining thread. It's sort of like that movie, The Purge. randome Feb 2015 #483

Who gets exonerated in that one? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #485

Don't know. Never saw it. But this part of a RottenTomatoes review sounds like every Snowden thread: randome Feb 2015 #487

Oddly enough...neither did the writer of this OP! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #488

You 3 appear to be in a distinct minority 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #504

This thread is just like a movie I never saw. neverforget Feb 2015 #501

It's like they are not even trying anymore! Rex Feb 2015 #511

It's funny but also concerning that opinions are formed that way. neverforget Feb 2015 #513

You 3 appear to be in a distinct minority 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #503

See you at next year's Snowden-fest, 99th! randome Feb 2015 #509

Sorry...he's a poopie head with boxes in his garage. U4ikLefty Feb 2015 #507

None of my points have been proven wrong... Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #514