General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: 5 Reasons Why Leftists Should Defend Russia | New Eastern Outlook [View all]JonLP24
(29,828 posts)Pay attention to the natural resources Eastern Ukraine is sitting on. Ukraine is a very corrupt country, Ukraine is #1 & Russia #2 on the most corrupt European country list. The way government, courts, law enforcement, etc it is begging for corruption. The new President called for "early elections" of Parliament, didn't allow voting in parts of Eastern Ukraine or Crimea (opposition forces were blamed but the timing is suspect). Two early elections were held since 2010 when Parliamentary terms are 5 years. The electoral system was also changed too -- could you imagine if Putin gained power under a similar set of circumstances?
Turnout was lower than past elections in the past 2, 32% turnout in Eastern Ukraine compared to 70% in Eastern Ukraine in 2010.
2014 political map
![]()
Political maps all show the same thing in Ukraine. Not only that millions of Ukrainians weren't allowed to vote. The divisions are regional & more complex than pro-west or pro-Russia. Many and I'd imagine an overwhelming majority at this point in Eastern Ukraine want independence. I think it would be the best way to solve this but Kiev wants the natural resources sitting on the East. Miners working in an industry controlled by corruption (like everything else) have swelled the ranks of rebel sources. It really isn't about "the west" or Russia for that matter -- regional political divisions (which have existed since the Ukraine 1991-present) & geography.
Anybody who visits extreme eastern and western Ukraine ... inevitably feels the profound differences between the two regions, as if in reality they belonged to two different countries, two different worlds, two different civilisations.
Mykola Riabchuk, Institute of Political and Nationalities Studies, Academy of Sciences, Kiev
http://www.abc.net.au/news/interactives/ukraine-conflict-in-maps/
All this gets lost in Putin rhetoric but claims coming from Ukraine that Russia manufactured all this, lie about it, & blaming Russia for everything -- a referendum is held in Eastern Ukraine. Putin publicly says for it to be delayed or say the referendum should wait for a better time. They go forward with the referendum anyway, the man I saw in the video after questioned about what Putin said, "I don't have a direct line to Putin" and "It's not up to him.". This could be the Vice report on the referendum or it could be someone else, can't remember who exactly that came from -- is propaganda which omits a lot of facts. While US blames Russia for everything, including protestors burned alive by the Right Sector in Odessa, an honest person that genuinely cares about all Ukrainians affected by this would also be telling the Ukrainian right-wing, nationalist politicians to "look in the mirror".
On edit -- even that link I posted -- I can't remember where I saw that article the detailed the regional divisions perfectly -- is misleading propaganda.
If Ukraine agreed to human rights reforms and addressed corruption, Ukraine could have qualified for EU membership.
But in November 2013, Mr Yanukovych abruptly pulled out of the deal and instead accepted a $15 billion bailout from Russia.
--------my text below
They created a 2004 Constitution but it trade deal was held up because he wouldn't release the "oil princess" who the entire West called a political prisoner which she probably was given that the way it is set-up, there are many political prisoners, was a strong advocate for Western capitalist alliances which is why they took up her cause. Russia wasn't fussy with their demands.
--------------------------------------------------------
Wiki
This was about a free trade deal
On 21 November 2013 the Verkhovna Rada failed to pass any of the six motions on allowing former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko to receive medical treatment abroad, which was an EU demand for signing the association agreement.[68][69] The same week Tymoshenko had stated that she was ready to ask the EU to drop the demand for her freedom if it meant President Viktor Yanukovych would sign the association agreement.[70] The same day a Ukrainian government decree suspended preparations for signing of association agreement; instead it proposed the creation of a three-way trade commission between Ukraine, the European Union and Russia that would resolve trade issues between the sides.[68] Prime Minister Mykola Azarov issued the decree in order to "ensure the national security of Ukraine" and in consideration of the possible ramfications of trade with Russia (and other CIS countries[71]) if the agreement was signed on a 2829 November summit in Vilnius.[68]
The suspension of the association agreement signature initiated a wave of protests that would ultimately overthrow Viktor Yanukovych and his government.[6]
Relations since suspension of association agreement till fall of Yanukovych
On 2 December 2013 President of the European Commission José Manuel Barroso agreed to meet with a delegation from Ukraine to discuss closer ties with the EU but stated there would be no re-opening of negotiations on the proposed Association Agreement.[72] The same day First Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine Serhiy Arbuzov announced that Ukraine planned to sign a "roadmap" with the EU "I'm not talking about the conditions of the association but about the conditions we planned to resolve before signing and after signing".[73] Ukraine and the EU started "conducting technical preparations for the upcoming dialogue between Ukraine and the EU on certain aspects of the implementation of an Association Agreement" on 5 December 2013.[74] However, on 15 December Fuele said that the Ukrainian government's negotiating position had "no grounds in reality" and that they were suspending further talks.[75]
On 17 December, Ukraine signed a treaty with Russia under which Russia will buy $15 billion of Ukrainian Eurobonds and the cost of Russian natural gas supplied to Ukraine will be reduced,[76][77] though Putin stated that "today we have not discussed the issue of Ukraine joining the Customs Union [of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia] at all".[78][nb 5] Three days later, high ranking EU-officials stated that the EU is still ready to sign the Association Agreement "as soon as Ukraine is ready for it", that the agreement was also beneficial for Russia and that the EU "is totally not concerned about the fact that Ukraine is signing agreements with Russia".[80][81][82][83][84] On 23 December 2013 Russian presidential aide Yuri Ushakov stated "there is no contradiction" in Ukraine's association with the EU and their observer status in the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union.[85]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union_relations