General Discussion

bravenak

(34,648 posts)

242. This is a part of a larger discussion.

Wed Feb 25, 2015, 08:45 PM

Feb 2015

And it is perfectly okay to disagree with me. See, I don't know her or have really followed her career very much. I tend to listen to the words and take them as written. She has responded to the criticism.

I don't see her as causing a rift as much as helping us see the rift that was already there more clearly. It's not about her, per se. Her words, were inarticulate. We were all right there with her until she got to the end. It was more of a dissapointment to us than anger inducing. And yes, black men did feel a bit slighted since they also have wage inequality compared to white women. We notice because we are affected by it extremely. Now it's time to fight for us. Fighting had been all we have ever been doing, minorities and gays. It's our lives everyday we wake up different than the standard.

I see it as less about her and more about showing the blind spots in her statements and starting a conversation.

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Why women like Patricia Arquette continue to whitewash Feminism. [View all] bravenak Feb 2015 OP

By this "reasoning", does this mean she is "straight-washing" feminism as well? Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #1

"Looking for a problem." silverweb Feb 2015 #4

The Grio also has an article. bravenak Feb 2015 #13

Remember "divide and conquer"? silverweb Feb 2015 #168

When she brought up race, she made the division. bravenak Feb 2015 #185

I agree she put her foot in her mouth, but... Adrahil Mar 2015 #274

Thank god this is over. bravenak Mar 2015 #279

Apprently I'm dense... I have no idea what you meant there. n/t Adrahil Mar 2015 #283

Fuck that! You're missing the point. It IS a fact, not some paranoid, delusional nonsense that quite Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #257

That's nice. silverweb Mar 2015 #258

I will. My people comes first since so one give a shit about us. Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #272

"Each group... should ideally be joined with the others in mutual support." nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #261

Of course. silverweb Mar 2015 #262

Yes. You assumed. That's the problem. The assumption IS the problem!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #273

+100 ND-Dem Mar 2015 #263

:) silverweb Mar 2015 #271

Leave it to Black Twitter to sum all of this up PERFECTLY Number23 Feb 2015 #207

I've been looking for that one all day!!! Thanks. bravenak Feb 2015 #209

"Looking for a problem", at the least. nt AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #26

Clickbait romanic Feb 2015 #47

maybe from the article more of her backstage comment azurnoir Feb 2015 #6

What? Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #7

perhaps her wording was clumsy but it does seem like she was creating a divide azurnoir Feb 2015 #8

Exactly. bravenak Feb 2015 #11

OK...I see what you are saying. Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #12

the author of the piece Kelsey McKinney is a woman who writes about feminism azurnoir Feb 2015 #42

And? Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #44

how is she being heterosexist by pointing the exclusionary nature of Arquettes backstage comments? azurnoir Feb 2015 #51

Seriously? Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #55

Arquette basically said that we (women) have worked for Gay and minority rights azurnoir Feb 2015 #56

A sidenote. Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #57

huh? are you saying "all the Gay people" part of her quote only meant Gay men? azurnoir Feb 2015 #60

Now she is "inclusive?" Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #63

no I am not and you see to misread my comment so first let's repeat Arquetts comment azurnoir Feb 2015 #64

Why do you need to keep repeating the same paragraph? Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #68

As I said it is a point of reference we've gone on for a bit so it helps to as reminder of what azurnoir Feb 2015 #70

What about "heterosexism" do you not understand? Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #71

my impression of Arquettes comments are that she was not singling out any subset within the Gay or azurnoir Feb 2015 #72

My impression is the author was excluding one of the targets of Arquette's comments. Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #73

IMO the author pointing out Arquettes back stage comments is hardly heterosexism azurnoir Feb 2015 #74

You really don't understand, do you? Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #79

Is that what you're claiming the author said? because I can not find that exact quote anywhere azurnoir Feb 2015 #87

You keep pretending not to understand why is outrage, which means that you agree with her Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #275

You do know that Patricia Arquette has a gay brother, and that she has supported him JDPriestly Feb 2015 #84

She has a sister named Alexis. bravenak Feb 2015 #85

True. That was what I was trying to say. But I did not say it well. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #86

I just wanted to make sure. I always liked her the best. bravenak Feb 2015 #89

Is it also possible the same could be said about Arquette's backstage comment? Quantess Feb 2015 #92

Thank you for the clarification I did not know that azurnoir Feb 2015 #106

You're welcome. I remember the transition. Very brave and public. bravenak Feb 2015 #108

As a white woman, I understood her to be advocating for all women. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #82

In her on stage comment yes in her back stage one not so much azurnoir Feb 2015 #90

Sorry. But I think the vox article is just ridiculous. It is criticism to be critical. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #93

You are not the first Straight person critical of Arquette to refer to her trans sister Alexis as a Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #129

Bravernak was kind enough to point that out hours ago you must have missed it azurnoir Feb 2015 #134

I do not know your gender. I just find it ironic that folks using such insulting verbiage about LGBT Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #148

actually I was being kind to the person claiming Arquettes brothrer was Gay as I am quite aware azurnoir Feb 2015 #152

^^^ YEP ^^^ MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #156

I agree with your interpretation, but is it a problem? Renew Deal Feb 2015 #122

thank you elehhhhna Feb 2015 #133

Patricia Arquette is a woman. She was absolutely right. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #75

Her on stage comment was wonderful her backstage addition not so much azurnoir Feb 2015 #76

They are the same Renew Deal Feb 2015 #123

Really? this comment is the same? azurnoir Feb 2015 #126

Yes. What did you think she meant by her original statement? Renew Deal Feb 2015 #142

it is her back stage comment I have a problem with and the you owe us air of it azurnoir Feb 2015 #143

I know you do Renew Deal Feb 2015 #144

well that's your perogative :) azurnoir Feb 2015 #153

She needs not tell black people they owe something or need to fight in the way she did. bravenak Feb 2015 #77

^^^ THIS is beautiful. Exhibit A Feb 2015 #78

In fact..... AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #14

to borrow from Chinatown, It's the internet, Jake. CBGLuthier Feb 2015 #19

One of the greatist truisms of this quarter of the century, I must say. nt AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #23

divide and conquer ND-Dem Mar 2015 #264

We got the message just fine. bravenak Feb 2015 #17

Same for lesbians, bisexual and transgender women too, right? Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #20

Maybe they do. bravenak Feb 2015 #24

The feminism movement shunned lesbians for years. Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #27

YES!!! I do think that. Beat me up, I don't care... bravenak Feb 2015 #30

Beat you up? WTF? Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #31

My bad. Always expect the worst. bravenak Feb 2015 #33

Apparently. Behind the Aegis Feb 2015 #34

In this thread, those who are judging the shit out of Patricia keep calling Alexis 'her gay brother' Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #141

so if one supports Arquettes statements or her back stage one then calling her sister Alexis a Gay azurnoir Feb 2015 #154

this thread demonstrates the success of divide and conquer as all the proponents of equal rights ND-Dem Mar 2015 #265

Seems like a concerted attempt to shut her the fuck DOWN elehhhhna Feb 2015 #127

How is pointing the fault of what Arquette said backstage a azurnoir Feb 2015 #158

what a distorted viewpoint... chillfactor Feb 2015 #2

Never. America loves trying to shame me. bravenak Feb 2015 #10

what a distorted sense of judgement you have... chillfactor Feb 2015 #65

No. People like YOU are the real problem. bravenak Feb 2015 #67

Seconded. AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #16

Yep. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #278

I will admit I'm a big fan of hers and that I am maybe too biased to see it Jamastiene Feb 2015 #3

I don't think whatever bias you may or may not have has affected anything. AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #22

The criticisms seem more like grading an English term paper than an honest assessment of what she really meant. stevenleser Feb 2015 #150

right?!! she's an actress, not a presidential candidate! elehhhhna Mar 2015 #252

I already answered in another thread to this... malokvale77 Feb 2015 #5

Here is is link. bravenak Feb 2015 #9

*Some* black ladies, Bravenak. Not *all*, by any means. nt AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #15

Lol!! Yeah Joe. You know all about black ladies. bravenak Feb 2015 #18

Oh, bravenak. Must you? nt AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #21

You wanted it Joe. bravenak Feb 2015 #25

!!! pinboy3niner Feb 2015 #28

I saw it. malokvale77 Feb 2015 #35

I am just telling you th truth about how it was taken bravenak Feb 2015 #43

OK malokvale77 Feb 2015 #59

The thing is... bravenak Feb 2015 #62

Are you saying... malokvale77 Feb 2015 #66

I said I'm not enraged. bravenak Feb 2015 #69

How can you not see that your reply is exactly like the replies we get from men? KitSileya Feb 2015 #80

You're not even listening to what bravenak is saying. You're just playing the victim. Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #277

I've tried to stay out of this (the race issue), I really have but... justiceischeap Feb 2015 #125

We are used to being told what we need to do. bravenak Feb 2015 #131

No One Likes Being Reminded They Owe a Favor Upward Mar 2015 #284

If we actually owed anything, I could understand what they mean. bravenak Mar 2015 #285

I Guess It Depends on What's Considered 'Owed' Upward Mar 2015 #290

Especially Black Women. bravenak Mar 2015 #291

It is sadly true. I think you will appreciate this: Raine1967 Feb 2015 #140

Thank you. bravenak Feb 2015 #182

You are welcome! Raine1967 Feb 2015 #203

I guess I'll keep trying through the years. bravenak Feb 2015 #204

I know it seems trite, but the movie referenced was when I first realized this. Raine1967 Feb 2015 #205

Things like that help me see things too. bravenak Feb 2015 #206

Agreeing... I left NOW when they didn't welcome lesbian and minority women discussions. freshwest Feb 2015 #213

Thank you. bravenak Feb 2015 #214

It was a relief to see it was you responding to my post, LOL! Others are welcome to Ignore my post. freshwest Feb 2015 #219

Scalia claimed we don't have rights guaranteed in the Constitution elehhhhna Feb 2015 #136

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Feb 2015 #29

Better get some Coke!!! bravenak Feb 2015 #32

anti women, anti feminists are jumping up and down in glee. clapping hands, and munching corn. seabeyond Feb 2015 #119

That one thinks this is a fight rather than a discussion. bravenak Feb 2015 #120

i have been mostly off du. after perusing threads this morning, there is more than one. seabeyond Feb 2015 #121

I haven't seen any great supporters of black women threads. bravenak Feb 2015 #124

I think the comments reflected the blindness that many have. I think the discussion is *great* as salin Feb 2015 #162

Thank you for the thoughtful response. bravenak Feb 2015 #198

The Kanye/Beck/Beyonce Grammys thread was much more entertaining n/t Violet_Crumble Feb 2015 #109

yes you find it entertaining. no surprise there. kinda obvious, but never go over that line. seabeyond Feb 2015 #118

I Can't get behind this rant Ichingcarpenter Feb 2015 #36

It's almost as if a few folks are just lookin' to stir up trouble..... AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #37

Martin Luther King, Jr. Ichingcarpenter Feb 2015 #46

well MLK did not say anything like what Arquette said backstage azurnoir Feb 2015 #54

gay men , black men she should have said Ichingcarpenter Feb 2015 #58

but she didn't and I'm not sure that she meant only men either azurnoir Feb 2015 #61

You don't have to. It is not expected. bravenak Feb 2015 #38

Thank you Ichingcarpenter malokvale77 Feb 2015 #41

those poor, downtrodden, blonde caucasians mwrguy Feb 2015 #112

sadly, Chimeradog Mar 2015 #251

All whites have white privilege in the country. mwrguy Mar 2015 #256

And lacking class privilege does not equal lacking race privilege. nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #259

Maybe if the majority of female, blonde Caucasians stopped voting for a party that's actively Chakab Feb 2015 #227

It's possible to support her and also listen to how others feel pinboy3niner Feb 2015 #49

+1 one_voice Feb 2015 #189

+2 nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #260

The last rant lost me when Jezebel TBF Mar 2015 #287

I gotta be for real, here. I think that trying to pull this lady down is a fail. MADem Feb 2015 #39

She will be fine. bravenak Feb 2015 #45

Yeah it was a dumbass thing to say, but I think what she meant was less of MADem Feb 2015 #50

First time for anything... malokvale77 Feb 2015 #48

One of the best responses I've seen yet! AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #53

Thank you. You are so right. JDPriestly Feb 2015 #96

Agree. People need to focus on who the real villains are n2doc Feb 2015 #145

Exactly, I agree 100% nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #151

One disadvantaged group fighting another works extremely well for the wrong people. merrily Feb 2015 #40

All too true, all too *damn* true. AverageJoe90 Feb 2015 #52

Doesn't mean that Meryl Streep cannot have tremendous empathy and compassion for women JDPriestly Feb 2015 #101

True but she is also a vocal feminist. xmas74 Feb 2015 #116

+100. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #266

Well I guess some people can't ever say "good job"! Quantess Feb 2015 #81

I smiled at your post. bravenak Feb 2015 #83

Ha! pinboy3niner Feb 2015 #88

Such a touchy subject. Good to talk about it I think. bravenak Feb 2015 #91

Good to hear voices that too often go unheard pinboy3niner Feb 2015 #95

Thank you. bravenak Feb 2015 #97

I agree, pinboy3niner... OneGrassRoot Feb 2015 #160

Do black men generally make sure to also include women when they speak out about inequality? Quantess Feb 2015 #98

Yes. We have been fighting together for 400 years. bravenak Feb 2015 #100

What a load of horseshit.... BooScout Feb 2015 #94

Arquette inserted race. bravenak Feb 2015 #99

In a inclusive context......not a context to exclude. BooScout Feb 2015 #102

See how if black people get offended we have some 'twisted agenda'? bravenak Feb 2015 #103

You give yourself too much credit.... BooScout Feb 2015 #105

Naw, I be trippin' off y'all. bravenak Feb 2015 #107

I don't know about evil agenda.... BooScout Feb 2015 #110

I get to decide when it counts. bravenak Feb 2015 #111

and others of us get to decide it's horsehit....like the article in your OP BooScout Feb 2015 #181

No need to stop by. bravenak Feb 2015 #183

I think people look for reasons to be offended. TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2015 #184

no good deed goes unpunished Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #104

+1000. I guess Patricia Arquette just ought to keep her mouth shut, right? Paladin Feb 2015 #146

Lot of whitesplaining in this thread mwrguy Feb 2015 #113

But of course. bravenak Feb 2015 #114

Then you could also say mansplaining and straightsplaining/heteronormativeness stevenleser Feb 2015 #159

Take your semantics romanic Feb 2015 #221

you have 44 posts and you want me to leave this website? mwrguy Feb 2015 #222

I get it, and I applaud you for raising awareness. KMOD Feb 2015 #115

That would have been perfect. bravenak Feb 2015 #117

That Part I Get ProfessorGAC Feb 2015 #132

How many critics of Particia in this thread called her trans sister 'a gay man'? Many. Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #147

I only saw one person call Alexis a gay man. bravenak Feb 2015 #211

munch the popcorn DonCoquixote Feb 2015 #128

unrec tenderfoot Feb 2015 #130

Cool. bravenak Feb 2015 #135

Don't put words in my mouth. tenderfoot Feb 2015 #137

Why do you think bravenak JustAnotherGen Feb 2015 #178

Because I don't get the impression that pay equity is high on her importance list tenderfoot Feb 2015 #179

Are you that ugly fatso Rush Limbaugh? ;-) JustAnotherGen Feb 2015 #188

I do. tenderfoot Feb 2015 #190

And I apologize to you JustAnotherGen Feb 2015 #192

OP survived a 0-7 alert. PeaceNikki Feb 2015 #138

Good n/t azurnoir Feb 2015 #155

That alert was totally uncalled for. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2015 #169

pretty good responses shaayecanaan Feb 2015 #217

This quote: betsuni Feb 2015 #139

Then do it perfectly right when you win an Oscar. alphafemale Feb 2015 #149

How do you do it perfectly right? MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #157

Oh, perhaps Ms. Arquette has now learned her lesson and will stick to thanking God and her djean111 Feb 2015 #166

If you are "famous", you take the same risk as anybody would in speaking your truth... MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #172

So you'd rather she not say anything? Doctor_J Feb 2015 #200

You can safely assume that I am pretty much always being sarcastic. djean111 Feb 2015 #202

Not all Black women share your view on this. Valerie Jarrett, for example Tanuki Feb 2015 #161

Based on the time of that tweet gollygee Feb 2015 #163

I am not dismissing Bravenak's or anyone else's reaction. My point is the same as yours, Tanuki Feb 2015 #164

^truth^ I was off yesterday but, I can't wait to see what the black women at work have to say about Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2015 #167

is the administrator being fired black or white? and the staffers? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #267

The administrator was a white man. This happened early last year. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2015 #268

thanks. health care? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #269

! Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2015 #270

who is this lady and what does she do for a living? snooper2 Feb 2015 #165

Whatever she specifically said "All Women" which includes: dilby Feb 2015 #170

Kick, rec, and keep on posting, please. F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #171

Let's form a circular firing squad. We have met the enemy and they is us. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #173

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Feb 2015 #175

While I admire Ms Arguette for using the oscars as a platform ismnotwasm Feb 2015 #174

Brava! JustAnotherGen Feb 2015 #177

I agree her phrasing was awkward, KitSileya Feb 2015 #176

I am no fan of bell hooks... tishaLA Feb 2015 #180

This thread has been bizzare. bravenak Feb 2015 #186

to his credit, Chris Hayes talked about this last night on his show tishaLA Feb 2015 #191

I agree. We all have our blind spots. bravenak Feb 2015 #195

Perfect post. I'm exhausted just reading this thread. Exhausted but not surprised. Number23 Feb 2015 #208

I do think it important to recognize that white women benefited greatly from Affirmative Action BainsBane Feb 2015 #187

This is the last time I'll speak out and let people here know what black peoole think. bravenak Feb 2015 #193

And you raise very important points BainsBane Feb 2015 #194

I saw all of her statements and have read about Ms. Arquette steve2470 Feb 2015 #196

I think you are right. bravenak Feb 2015 #197

I'm all for women's rights, however, I am more interested in civil rights. ariesgem Feb 2015 #199

I was going to say this too, but I already had so much to say. bravenak Feb 2015 #201

"I can't ever recall organized feminist groups coming out in support of the mother's of Travon" Number23 Feb 2015 #210

All true, and disappointing. Strangely I thought her remarks were more about the LGBT community.... bettyellen Feb 2015 #225

"She certainly walks the walk in real life though." Number23 Feb 2015 #232

Yep, she's put in time for good causes for years. Kids, diseases, poverty , education.... bettyellen Feb 2015 #238

K&R. Even with the best of intentions, social movements can have serious blind spots... YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #212

Thanks for the post. bravenak Feb 2015 #215

Speaking out onstage was a good move- Chimeradog Feb 2015 #216

This whole thing is about what she said offstage. bravenak Feb 2015 #218

sry took me awhile Chimeradog Mar 2015 #247

I'm fine with u thinking that. bravenak Mar 2015 #248

ok:) Chimeradog Mar 2015 #249

I agree. Some people have an adgenda where others have legitimate concerns. bravenak Mar 2015 #250

I agree with the OP as far as this goes... shaayecanaan Feb 2015 #220

Patricia Arquette is worth $24 Million, according to Celebrity Net Worth. closeupready Feb 2015 #223

I had wanted Judd to run too. bravenak Feb 2015 #224

How much money do black male celebrities earn? Quantess Feb 2015 #245

I don't agree with this. At least not with holding it against Arquette. DanTex Feb 2015 #226

She is the one who brought up race in the interview. bravenak Feb 2015 #228

Food for thought. You know, I like and respect your posts here a lot. Still not sure I'm DanTex Feb 2015 #229

Ok, here is an article to show you what I mean. bravenak Feb 2015 #230

That's a good article. DanTex Feb 2015 #231

I agree with that. bravenak Feb 2015 #233

+1 ismnotwasm Feb 2015 #234

Well holy shit! marym625 Feb 2015 #235

Whoa! bravenak Feb 2015 #237

LOL! marym625 Feb 2015 #241

A good point I just read from Andrea Grimes KitSileya Feb 2015 #236

Oh, yes. We need to work on that for real. bravenak Feb 2015 #239

OK, now that I have watched the interview marym625 Feb 2015 #240

This is a part of a larger discussion. bravenak Feb 2015 #242

okey dokey then. marym625 Feb 2015 #243

"It's time for (1) all American voters, KMOD Feb 2015 #244

It's like that 'Real American' thing the rights does. bravenak Feb 2015 #246

I guess people should stop speaking out about anything Bettie Mar 2015 #253

Because some people like to be offended romanic Mar 2015 #254

I guess as a white woman I'm not qualified to accept what she said Bettie Mar 2015 #255

My sympathies go out to you, Bettie. AverageJoe90 Mar 2015 #286

It gets frustrating Bettie Mar 2015 #288

You're welcome. AverageJoe90 Mar 2015 #289

Huh? What have I missed? NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #276

Aw, man, I can't do this one anymore. bravenak Mar 2015 #280

Just saw it this morning. NaturalHigh Mar 2015 #281

Thank you. bravenak Mar 2015 #282