Documents show how Russia's troll army hit America

[BainsBane]

53. In order to have a reasoned discussion people need to cut the crap

and engage in a rational assessment of the situation. I oppose any US intervention besides humanitarian aid and sanctions. I also oppose empire building and war, whether by Russia or the US. What I have been confronted with here is people who insist on aping every excuse that comes from the Kremlin and justifying the takeover of the Ukraine and killing of Ukrainians because they, like Putin, think them inferior and unfit to govern themselves. There will be no US war. It is Russia's sphere of influence. The only consequences Putin faces are sanctions and a blow to his standing in this world. This campaign to legitimate war on the Ukraine enables him to free himself from the latter and makes it easier for him to continue his empire building. He has already entered Georgia and the Ukraine. How many countries do you want Russia to take over?

If people want to support the rebuilding of the Russian empire, they should be honest and say so, but this endless bullshit that the existence of fascists in the Ukraine justifies Putin's war is unacceptable. If you and others truly believe that some people deserve to die based on their political views and that Russia has the right to take it over because it doesn't like the Ukraine's political direction, you need to say so. The bullshit excuses are unbelievable, pure propaganda, and I don't even know what to say about people who either 1) willingly cheerlead on the death of Ukrainians, promoting war while pretending to be antiwar; or 2) lack the intellectual capacity to discern bullshit propaganda when they see it.

They also insist that Putin not be criticized. They insist anything that presents him as anything other than perfect is propaganda. When presented with evidence, they shout "MSM, MSM" over and over again like parrots. They deny everything that doesn't fit their delusion of Putin as the messiah and the US as sheer evil. Now, I can understand a Russian taking such a position, even though I disagree with it. It is their nation after all. But when Americans do it, there is something seriously wrong. These people refused to consider anything in the Frontline piece and gave one empty excuse after another for why it wasn't true, none of which addressed the actual points in the film. Someone even linked to an article discussing Harvard economists and US bankers visit to Moscow in 1996 as
a defense for Putin's actions in St. Petersburg 5 years earlier. They did not even bother to figure out what time period or place documentary covered. So this excuses that people are not admirers of Putin is proved false by their insistence that anything critical of him is false propaganda.

The constant warmongering on Russia's behalf is inexcusable, and that too many of you are unable to imagine anything other than all out invasion by the US or believing every single word that comes from the Kremlin is inexplicable to me and far from reasoned.
Now, I don't recall any conversations with you on this issue, but I have had conversations of the nature I describe above. The most bizarre thing is that they consider themselves leftists, all while warmongering for a right-wing homophobic, autocrat. The position is pro-empire and pro-war. It just so happens not to be an American war, as though death is less serious when at Russian hands as opposed to American. People need to be honest about what they are advocating. Do you realize the Russian left opposes the intervention? They are anti-imperialist and see through Putin's excuses. Yet people here to not.

None of that bullshit is necessary to oppose any US or EU intervention in the region. I frankly think chances of that happening are close to nonexistent. There was no US coup, and you need to knock that BS off. There were popular protests. The IMF is not the equivalent of tanks and guns. A Russian document given to the editor of Novaya Gazeta shows that Putin planned the takeover months before Yanukovych fled Kiev. They planned to annex Crimea and the Eastern Ukraine months before the government in Kiev fell, and they planned to get rid of Yanukovych themselves. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/02/21/257386/russian-news-report-ukraine-invasion.html#storylink=cpy
Repeating the Kremlin's excuses for its foreign intervention is no different than if you repeated the Bush administration's excuses for Iraq. Why would anyone think that was a rational thing to do? How can grown adults not understand that governments engage in PR campaigns to justify their foreign policy?