5 Reasons Why Leftists Should Defend Russia | New Eastern Outlook

[Tommy_Carcetti]

216. If you have actual evidence that what happened in Ukraine was a coup, bring it.

But "it's happened before" is not evidence. Just because something happened 60 years ago in Iran doesn't automatically mean it happened again in Ukraine.

Do you have actual evidence that the CIA paid off groups within the Maidan movement to cause trouble, or are you just randomly speculating here? We know the "$5 billion" argument has been grossly misconstrued and twisted by people like you. That argument was rated "Pants on Fire" by Politifact. See for yourself:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

Now, do you have actual evidence that the United States actually paid groups within Maidan for the express purpose of "creating chaos"? You are aware that the chaotic nature of the protests was in good part due to Yanukovych's own violent crackdown on protesters by Berkut riot police from almost the very beginning of the Maidan movement. But as you say, "You don't have to tell lies to be a propagandist. You only have to omit one side of the story."

Interesting thing about the alleged "false flag attack". If you read the BBC story, the "Sergei" individual who claims to have been a sniper never actually identifies who he claims to have been working for or why he was supposedly doing what he claims he did. You claim he was working for Maidan protesters, but that's your own conclusion. And that assumes that "Sergei" was telling the truth in making the claims. But even if you believe the very worst about the February 20th sniper shootings (as you apparently do)--that the protesters themselves were behind the shootings--in the end, it doesn't really matter. Yanukovych had already been packing for a day by the time the shootings took place. He had already made up his mind to leave. If anything, the February 20th sniper shootings were but a tragic, bloody footnote on the events in Madian. No more and no less.

As to Yanukovych himself, you brush off the fact that he took three days to meticulously pack up truckloads of valuables while downtown Kiev was literally burning. You characterize that behavior as "fleeing for his life", as if protesters had already stormed his palace gates and were rushing towards the mansion with Kalashnikovs and he just got out in the nick of time with only the clothes on his back. You've seen the videos (I presume at least--I gave them to you.) Obviously that was not the case. Now you say he was afraid of the CIA and that's why he left. Honestly, I doubt the CIA was the his major concern in what was ultimately a calculated, voluntary decision in his part to leave. I think he was more concerned by the tens of thousands of people in downtown Kiev at the time who had withstood his considerable efforts to break. He could stick around as Ukraine's most hated man, or he could go off as private citizen and live a charmed life in a place that didn't hate his guts. And so he chose the latter. It was his call, not ours or anyone else's.

As for Vitali Klitschko, he's hardly "vanished from the political radar" given that he's only the current Mayor of Kiev and considered a key political ally to the president. Yatsenyuk is the prime minister, while Yanukovych was the president and Poroshenko currently is the president. So if the insinuation is that the US wanted to switch out Yanukovych for Yatsenyuk, I think you are a little confused. (And Pariuby's neither the president nor prime minister and isn't currently even in the governing Cabinet, so there's that.)

As for the IMF, neither you nor I know how it will turn out. Who knows, maybe it will turn out bad, a la Greece. But we just don't know, and frankly that's far less of a factor to most Ukrainians as it is to people like you. (You are aware that the IMF has had a relationship with Ukraine since 1992, right? So we're not talking about something that is necessarily radically different at this point.)

Here's my problem with people like you. You claim Ukraine is being carved up by the US and the West and that your concern is who will speak out for the Ukrainian people. Except then you guys minimize and essentially deny the fact that there were actual protests by hundreds of thousands of actual Ukrainians (who were supported by millions more actual Ukrainians) about actual issues regarding Ukraine with underlying concerns about the intentions of Ukraine's actual neighbors. You don't give a shit about those people. And so you sit behind your computer, linking to Robert Parry articles as you weave ridiculous conspiracy theories about a US sponsored coup without any actual evidence to back it up. And it is so incredibly insulting to the people who actually lived those events.

Sure, we're all here a bit bothered by the sometimes checkered history of US foreign policy. It doesn't give us carte blanche to make shit up, though.

But then again, you've expressly stated that Ukraine's right to exist within its borders doesn't bother you, so I doubt you actually care about speaking up for the Ukrainian people anyways.

But what do I know? I'm just "neo-con sockpuppet", so I'm going to head back to the I Heart Paul Wolfowitz Facebook Fan page now. He's so dreamy......