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(20,885 posts)
217. Increased yields? Less pesticides? Where??
Thu Feb 26, 2015, 02:53 PM
Feb 2015

These were promised, but I've not seen them fulfilled. I'll be glad to look at your data, though. The studies you cited, were limited in scope, and short term. Most were single season, and new plantings. Is it conceivable, that planting a novel crop might also initiate other practices that could affect yield? Moreover, this precludes observing the effects of mutated pests and weeds. More moreover, these studies are overwhelmingly on Bt producing crops, so it's not surprising that the cost of pesticides are reduced, since these plants are pesticides, and especially before resistant organisms can proliferate. Consider that the cherry picking was done before I got there. The study may be useful, but it's hardly definitive.

My understanding of golden rice was that it did not yield enough vitamin A to make it effective. (And I am not arguing that "science is wrong..." It always is. I am arguing that any validity of "science" that comes from think tanks is questionable. In my experience, they want to fool us.)

AFAIK, GMO seed companies do not make their seeds available to independent researchers. Therefore no controlled experiments. BTW, do you really think it's unreasonable to have GMOs labeled, and to have some independent testing?


Not valid katsy Feb 2015 #1
If a personal choice is based on faulty logic, it deserves to be called so. alp227 Feb 2015 #7
Are u serious? katsy Feb 2015 #52
No it's not. Junk science is junk science. nt alp227 Feb 2015 #53
Even if we grant that anti-gmo is junk science mythology Feb 2015 #221
Yes, it does. HuckleB Feb 2015 #223
And anti-GMO people LIE and MISLEAD. Their lies hurt agriculture. alp227 Feb 2015 #240
I have no issue to call out faulty logic. But a choice to eat Non-GMO food.... LynneSin Feb 2015 #56
LOGIC - you are very very wrong SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2015 #205
Huh. HuckleB Feb 2015 #245
That's not where it stops, however. HuckleB Feb 2015 #211
logic fail ND-Dem Feb 2015 #2
Except that vaccines ARE tested and GMOs are NOT tested. immoderate Feb 2015 #3
GMO's ARE TESTED! alp227 Feb 2015 #6
Nonsense. Unlike your 'Popular Science' article, this links to a peer reviewed survey... immoderate Feb 2015 #21
That's not a real study. It's a politically driven survey. alp227 Feb 2015 #23
Can you cite a long term (more than 90 days) study that demonstrates this harmlessness? immoderate Feb 2015 #26
here alp227 Feb 2015 #27
David Tribe? You must be kidding. immoderate Feb 2015 #29
Does he still work for Monsanto? AgingAmerican Feb 2015 #178
there is overwhelming consensus among scientists and health professionals that GMOs are... mike_c Feb 2015 #34
Then you can point me to an independent, long-term study that demonstrates this safety? immoderate Feb 2015 #44
here are links to nearly 1800 such published studies mike_c Feb 2015 #51
I asked for a study, not a do-it-yourself kit. immoderate Feb 2015 #58
now you're just being obtuse, but here you go.... mike_c Feb 2015 #63
LOL! Talk about being obtuse. Which ONE of those says GMOs are safe? Pick the best example. immoderate Feb 2015 #66
dude, you just roll the goal posts all over the place, don't you.... mike_c Feb 2015 #68
So, you couldn't find a single study that fulfills my request? Goalpost condition: STABLE immoderate Feb 2015 #75
I provided you with full citations for nearly 1800 of them.... mike_c Feb 2015 #80
Yeah, but... Dr. Strange Feb 2015 #88
ding ding ding.... mike_c Feb 2015 #97
lol Veilex Feb 2015 #273
Facts? We don't need no damn facts! LTX Feb 2015 #83
That was pretty entertaining! ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #76
Creationists, science deniers, all of 'em show this kind of nonsense don't they? alp227 Feb 2015 #130
Fuck.. way to try and ruin a thread if there weren't enough bullshite in the OP to begin with. Cha Feb 2015 #100
+a million F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #101
you missed one Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #91
Besides this post being a little silly, to me it still misses my concern... Sancho Feb 2015 #144
Um....no. jeff47 Feb 2015 #174
Were the current super bugs known and taught in the 50's and 60's? Sancho Feb 2015 #185
They hadn't evolved yet. We always knew they would though. jeff47 Feb 2015 #187
You are simply wrong... Sancho Feb 2015 #188
You've apparently never actually been treated for a bacterial infection. jeff47 Feb 2015 #192
Look at post 190 for links on antibiotics... Sancho Feb 2015 #275
Again, IT WAS ANTICIPATED. jeff47 Feb 2015 #278
Then you simply refuse to see the obvious... Sancho Feb 2015 #279
BTW, I found this too...I guess the Surgeon General wasn't "we" either.... Sancho Feb 2015 #280
check out this post on DU and the link to an article on antibiotic resistance... Sancho Feb 2015 #190
You not understanding antibiotics and antibiotic resistance does not make for an informative post. jeff47 Feb 2015 #193
At this point I've provided you scholarly references and quotations refuting your position. Sancho Feb 2015 #281
Dayam! My mouse wheel fell off Telcontar Feb 2015 #151
+1,000,000 ... 000 HuckleB Feb 2015 #210
Can you point me to an independent, long-term study that demonstrates organic food is safe? jeff47 Feb 2015 #57
Yes, life is replete with hazards. immoderate Feb 2015 #60
We exist. Therefore, we fuck up the environment. jeff47 Feb 2015 #62
So we agree. immoderate Feb 2015 #64
No, you fear GMOs. I don't. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2015 #65
That too. immoderate Feb 2015 #67
GE is the most predictable and studied of all seed development technologies. HuckleB Feb 2015 #199
How would they know? The GMO producers license the seeds and control who can use them in research. pnwmom Feb 2015 #136
eNews Park Forest, Inc is not a reputable source. Veilex Feb 2015 #272
The science showing GMOs to be safe is incredibly vast and profound. HuckleB Feb 2015 #194
No. immoderate Feb 2015 #196
So, you're choosing to ignore that. HuckleB Feb 2015 #198
Ignore what? immoderate Feb 2015 #206
GMOs have led to decreased pesticide use and more food produced per acre. HuckleB Feb 2015 #207
Increased yields? Less pesticides? Where?? immoderate Feb 2015 #217
The meta-analysis was not limited in scope, nor short term. HuckleB Feb 2015 #218
The article itself admitted the limitations. immoderate Feb 2015 #220
Most cliches tend to be false, especially dramatic ones. HuckleB Feb 2015 #222
Sorry I'm not scientific enough for you. immoderate Feb 2015 #253
You don't seem to be able to discuss the matter in any way, shape, or form. HuckleB Feb 2015 #254
Well, I truly and honestly think the Europeans are OK with labeling. immoderate Feb 2015 #266
in other words, if anti-science propaganda wins the day, you're ok with that. HuckleB Feb 2015 #267
I don't see how labeling what we eat is "anti-science propaganda." immoderate Feb 2015 #274
Question about the people who made this graphic. NCTraveler Feb 2015 #4
Good questions.. apparently this is the guy who did the graphic Cha Feb 2015 #124
"GMO's are good because vaccines" is a faulty arguement. stone space Feb 2015 #5
When did I actually SAY "GMO's are good"? alp227 Feb 2015 #8
That's not the message of the OP. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #16
The "message" in the OP is a blatant fallacy. cheapdate Feb 2015 #55
The point is that the scientific consensus for GMOs and vaccines is the same. HuckleB Feb 2015 #209
The two things aren't remotely comparable. cheapdate Feb 2015 #276
+1. Amazing how some champions of "science" haven't mastered the basic logic it is founded on GreatGazoo Feb 2015 #31
Being able to drown your crops in roundup is as important as eradicating smallpox Chathamization Feb 2015 #95
Your response is evidence that the OP is correct. HuckleB Feb 2015 #212
NYT: "farmers sprayed so much Roundup that weeds quickly evolved to survive it" Chathamization Feb 2015 #214
Superweeds were worse before the advent of GMOs. HuckleB Feb 2015 #215
Dismissing a peer review article in Nature with a blog post? That's only pro-science on opposite day Chathamization Feb 2015 #261
Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #262
So you didn't bother even looking at your first link? And then you call someboday who did a "liar"? Chathamization Feb 2015 #264
In other words, you claimed to have posted something that you did not. HuckleB Feb 2015 #265
Dishonesty? Your first link is a blog post criticizing a peer reviewed article from Nature. When I Chathamization Feb 2015 #270
Nothing settles an issue more scientifically than a facebook meme whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #9
I think if people want to eat natural food, they can dissentient Feb 2015 #10
Because they demand legistlation that will increase the costs of GMO foods through labeling. dilby Feb 2015 #14
Well that's democracy. There are special interests for just about everything dissentient Feb 2015 #15
But you can certainly call them out and point out dilby Feb 2015 #17
But critics of GMO foods are the first to complain about lobbying Orrex Feb 2015 #18
That's completely different... Dr. Strange Feb 2015 #87
I don't want to eat them if possible upaloopa Feb 2015 #35
How about requiring companies who don't use GMO's to put a label on their food no GMO? dilby Feb 2015 #36
I do see "no GMO" labels that is a good idea upaloopa Feb 2015 #38
They will never replace regular plants. dilby Feb 2015 #50
Actually, given that the growth of population on a finite planet is unsustainable truebluegreen Feb 2015 #152
There is a distinct difference between meat and non-meat products. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #42
I don't want to eat GMO if I can help it. upaloopa Feb 2015 #45
Appeal to nature has never been a legitimate argument. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #49
That is a personal choice upaloopa Feb 2015 #59
No, it's not. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #81
I see you made your choice upaloopa Feb 2015 #110
You're also making an unfair comparison there metalbot Feb 2015 #147
I will say this, you don't have a clue upaloopa Feb 2015 #155
You are the one suggesting to compare a farmer's market tomato to a supermarket tomato metalbot Feb 2015 #160
No you don't get it. The produce in the grocery upaloopa Feb 2015 #162
I don't like plastic tomatoes either Go Vols Feb 2015 #170
I think some younger people will never upaloopa Feb 2015 #172
There are more great tasting fruits and veggies than ever. HuckleB Feb 2015 #225
Where can I get tomatoes that dont rot? Telcontar Feb 2015 #150
They rot but it takes a longer time than organic upaloopa Feb 2015 #154
Really? Why? HuckleB Feb 2015 #226
Because grocery produce has been engineered upaloopa Feb 2015 #228
Citations needed. HuckleB Feb 2015 #229
I don't play that game upaloopa Feb 2015 #231
I'm not playing games. HuckleB Feb 2015 #232
Sure you are upaloopa Feb 2015 #233
So you think this is a game? HuckleB Feb 2015 #235
Look I don't give a shit what you think ok? upaloopa Feb 2015 #244
Awesome. HuckleB Feb 2015 #246
You should be glad to have me to reinforce your narrow minded upaloopa Feb 2015 #249
Life would be so easy if I was actually narrow-minded. HuckleB Feb 2015 #251
Excuse me, but foods are already labeled. Updated regularly. immoderate Feb 2015 #39
apparently their label printer charges by the word GreatGazoo Feb 2015 #92
64 Other Countries manage the cost thing nationalize the fed Feb 2015 #153
Do you have an unbiased source to offer up for those claims? HuckleB Feb 2015 #227
Oh bother. hunter Feb 2015 #11
Anti-science is anti-science. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #12
Or anti-nuclear weapons. stone space Feb 2015 #20
You're not seriously comparing GMOs to nuclear weapons, are you? NuclearDem Feb 2015 #30
How do you know that? stone space Feb 2015 #175
It's completely rational to oppose the use of nuclear weapons. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #176
No one who has replied has addressed any of the claims in the meme Orrex Feb 2015 #13
I did. immoderate Feb 2015 #22
That's not a real study. nt alp227 Feb 2015 #24
And a Facebook photoshop-of-the-day is? Stop. closeupready Feb 2015 #47
The macro has facts. The phony ass "study" doesn't. nt alp227 Feb 2015 #48
You also asserted that GMOs are not tested, which is a false claim. Orrex Feb 2015 #25
I linked to a survey, and it was adddressed, but not refuted. immoderate Feb 2015 #32
Actually, you're still up Orrex Feb 2015 #40
And GMO apologists use the same tactics as climate deniers, tobacco lawyers, ... so? immoderate Feb 2015 #70
You're still up. Orrex Feb 2015 #73
The OP? Pure rhetoric. immoderate Feb 2015 #86
You're still up. Orrex Feb 2015 #89
that's a bogus, fake article in a bogus, fake journal.... mike_c Feb 2015 #43
Why bother when the foundation of the whole argument is made of sand? n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #138
That would be a good point, if it were true Orrex Feb 2015 #139
Well... HuckleB Feb 2015 #260
Most of the Anti-Vaxxers I know are also Anti-GMO dilby Feb 2015 #19
That's got to be the most ignorant statement of the week... MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #127
Maybe i found the three for one deal. n/t dilby Feb 2015 #134
I am not convinced that genetically engineering crops for resisantce to organophosphate herbicides cheapdate Feb 2015 #28
Only In America! (eom) CanSocDem Feb 2015 #37
GMOs is much broader than glyphosate resistance. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2015 #69
I'm quite aware that genetic engineering has multiple uses and applications. cheapdate Feb 2015 #72
I think you make a point...but my issue with GMO's is the disclosure, not the science. Sancho Feb 2015 #33
From earlier in this thread: jeff47 Feb 2015 #71
Which is exactly why I made the analogy with tobacco... Sancho Feb 2015 #78
+1 nt F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #102
If that is your argument... HuckleB Feb 2015 #268
Why do you think only one type of seed development technology should be labeled? HuckleB Feb 2015 #208
With today's technology, just about everything should be trackable for any reason... Sancho Feb 2015 #256
Your responses on this thread have been all anti-GMO, so don't pretend otherwise. HuckleB Feb 2015 #257
That's not true. Sancho Feb 2015 #263
Even in this post, you say one thing, but you argue for another. HuckleB Feb 2015 #269
Maybe you don't understand... Sancho Feb 2015 #271
Oh gawd. This again. closeupready Feb 2015 #41
Thanks for making the OP's point. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #46
My choice to not eat GMO foods will not in anyway jeopardize the health of others around me LynneSin Feb 2015 #54
my county has outlawed cultivation of any GMO crops on private land.... mike_c Feb 2015 #85
It sucks what happened in your county but still doesn't justify why someone shouldn't vaccinate LynneSin Feb 2015 #94
it was only recently passed (in Nov).... mike_c Feb 2015 #96
I for one am glad they outlawed GMOs Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #98
This. F4lconF16 Feb 2015 #103
I'd like see a list of those "hundreds of cases in the United States and Canada" Orrex Feb 2015 #112
Here's something to get you started Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #135
That document won't open for me. Can you summarize any of these hundreds of cases? Orrex Feb 2015 #140
Here is one of the important parts: Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #145
But are those cases of accidental cross-pollenation? Orrex Feb 2015 #146
Some are, some aren't Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #148
In fact, there is a way to tell. Orrex Feb 2015 #149
Creating laws based on fictions and pseudoscience is bad, pure and simple. HuckleB Feb 2015 #203
There are many ways to be harmful central scrutinizer Feb 2015 #61
I don't worry about GMO foods doing anything to me; hedgehog Feb 2015 #74
Percy Schmeiser purposefully infringed and Monsanto still did not "act as a bully...." mike_c Feb 2015 #84
Invalid conflation. Feh. djean111 Feb 2015 #77
Whole lot of GMO manure here. Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #79
A Chuck Lasker graphic? He's the one who calls Hawaiian farmers, moms, doctors... countryjake Feb 2015 #82
Just call me a ******* eco terrorist! I'm on Kauai and we are doing our best to hold monsanto and Cha Feb 2015 #123
Ha! Me, too, Cha! countryjake Feb 2015 #179
Thank you for Waging the battle against the Toxic Conglomerate Roundup-Monsanto.. one and the Cha Feb 2015 #191
Shit! There is NO LAW AGAINST HYPOCRISCY HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #90
It's funny, really RobertEarl Feb 2015 #93
GMO foods are made from melted starfish. Orrex Feb 2015 #99
Eh? RobertEarl Feb 2015 #104
All the time? Not by a long shot. Orrex Feb 2015 #106
Yes, you do. RobertEarl Feb 2015 #113
I'm still not convinced that you really exist. Orrex Feb 2015 #114
You are in denial? RobertEarl Feb 2015 #115
I suspect that you're programmed to believe this. Orrex Feb 2015 #116
Please. Post the PMs RobertEarl Feb 2015 #117
Kooky Orrex Feb 2015 #118
Wow RobertEarl Feb 2015 #119
No one in the history of DU has claimed that radiation can't be harmful Orrex Feb 2015 #120
You call me pig-jeaded? Hahahaha RobertEarl Feb 2015 #121
As opposed to the true BS you post, I suppose Orrex Feb 2015 #125
You are wrong RobertEarl Feb 2015 #126
Kooky Orrex Feb 2015 #128
How old are you? RobertEarl Feb 2015 #129
Old enough to know kooky when I see it. Orrex Feb 2015 #131
Looking in the mirror are you? RobertEarl Feb 2015 #132
A kindergarten rejoinder, and you wonder how old I am? Orrex Feb 2015 #133
Thanks for the reminder that the OP left out a couple points FBaggins Feb 2015 #109
Wait till they hear we also have GMV's - Genetically Modified Viruses Lancero Feb 2015 #105
Superweeds eridani Feb 2015 #107
I am most decidedly Pro-Vaccine Dorian Gray Feb 2015 #108
Avoiding GMO's is at worst, simply benign, while the consequences of avoiding vaccinations... LanternWaste Feb 2015 #111
SO what countries have outlawed vaccinations? Yeah false equivalency sucks and people call you on it Rex Feb 2015 #122
That doesn't actually refute the OP... Orrex Feb 2015 #141
Cite them, which countries both outlaw vaccinations and GMO foods? Rex Feb 2015 #158
In other words, 150+ countries HAVEN'T banned GMO foods. Orrex Feb 2015 #159
There could be a lot of factors IMHO. Glassunion Feb 2015 #186
Anti-vaxx = anti-cigarettes. Anti-vaxxx = anti-nuclear power. Anti-vaxx = anti-pesticides. pnwmom Feb 2015 #137
"The comparison in the OP is nonsense" Orrex Feb 2015 #142
As I said, you could make the same correlations in many other areas, pnwmom Feb 2015 #156
No one has implied causation Orrex Feb 2015 #157
What is nonsense is to imply that just because the opponents of vaccines are unjustified, pnwmom Feb 2015 #161
You are refuting an argument that no one has put forth Orrex Feb 2015 #163
And those who promote GMO's use the same tactics -- for example, print ads -- pnwmom Feb 2015 #164
That's a different argument, and you are free to make it Orrex Feb 2015 #165
In an effort to support GMO's, you have been making what is called an "argument from fallacy." pnwmom Feb 2015 #167
That's a fair objection. Orrex Feb 2015 #168
I agree with everything you just said. pnwmom Feb 2015 #171
I love it... sendero Feb 2015 #143
How are they not analogous? HuckleB Feb 2015 #219
Bill Nye the Science guy on GMO's - for a valanced and sesible perspective: Douglas Carpenter Feb 2015 #166
There is nothing balanced or sensible about it. HuckleB Feb 2015 #195
I'm pro-vaccine / Anti-GMO food Glassunion Feb 2015 #169
Choosing to eat non-GMO foods as much as possible Blue_In_AK Feb 2015 #173
Since GMO foods are reducing pesticide use, land use, and dangerous herbicide use... HuckleB Feb 2015 #197
There is no scientific concensus on the safety of GMOs AgingAmerican Feb 2015 #177
Except for the nearly 1800 studies that say otherwise. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #180
Did you bother reading any of that nonsense? AgingAmerican Feb 2015 #181
I love it when people make the OP's point for them. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #182
How many of these have you read? AgingAmerican Feb 2015 #183
I've read enough of them on my own NuclearDem Feb 2015 #184
There is a definitive consensus. HuckleB Feb 2015 #200
I'm definitely pro-vaccine, and provisionally pro-GMO bhikkhu Feb 2015 #189
Why Vaccine and GMO Denial Should be Treated Equally HuckleB Feb 2015 #201
That's a fantastic article Orrex Feb 2015 #202
Bull Shit Bull Shit Bull Shit SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2015 #204
True enough. HuckleB Feb 2015 #243
Yes, you most certainly can! Most people have blind spots, but that doesn't mean that they should not call out tblue37 Feb 2015 #213
Faulty logic. Vaccines save lives. GMO---make Monsanto profits? McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #216
Is Monsanto the only GMO seed company? HuckleB Feb 2015 #224
All the giant Chemical Corps have taken over seed companies... countryjake Feb 2015 #230
That's the usual anti-GMO story. HuckleB Feb 2015 #234
Hey Huckle, know the most effective, science-proven, age-old method... countryjake Feb 2015 #247
So, you have no evidence and nothing to say. Got it. HuckleB Feb 2015 #248
Heh heh, you want pictures? countryjake Feb 2015 #252
Looks like you lost track of reality there. HuckleB Feb 2015 #255
The reality... countryjake Feb 2015 #258
Do you realize that superweeds have decreased since the advent of GMOs? HuckleB Feb 2015 #259
Whether or not they are, "Round-up ready" means that you eating Glysophate tainted food. Glysophate bobalew Feb 2015 #236
Citations needed to support your claims. HuckleB Feb 2015 #237
BTW, GMOs are reducing pesticide and land use. HuckleB Feb 2015 #238
Also, round up is much safer than older herbicides, among other benefits... HuckleB Feb 2015 #239
Vinegar, Salt, Glyphosate? Hmm. HuckleB Feb 2015 #241
And always double check those anti-GMO claims before you spread them. They're usually false. HuckleB Feb 2015 #242
Antivaccine versus anti-GMO: Different goals, same methods HuckleB Feb 2015 #250
Actually, you can. Scootaloo Feb 2015 #277
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