Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: On Zimmy's statement to the court [View all]spin
(17,493 posts)56. Is the fact that JUSTIFIED shooting has increased 25% a terrible thing?
That statistic merely shows that more people were able to use a firearm for legitimate self defense and were able to escape serious injury or death.
It absolutely amazes me when the media is able to successfully portray incidents where firearms saves lives as evil.
The United States' concept of justifiable homicide in criminal law stands on the dividing line between an excuse, justification and an exculpation. It differs from other forms of homicide in that, due to certain circumstances, the homicide is justified as preventing greater harm to innocents. A homicide can only be justified if there is evidence to suggest that it was reasonable to believe that the offending party posed an imminent threat to the life or wellbeing of another.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide
To argue that justifiable homicide is wrong defies reason unless you believe that all self defense is undesirable. Is that what you believe? If so, it appears the media agrees with you. Indeed the pen is mightier than the sword when the media can convince people that legitimate self defense is a bad thing.
I will grant that the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida could have been worded better. The basic concept is valid but obviously the law is somewhat ambiguous and might well allow a person to escape prosecution in some incidents where no witnesses were available and the evidence was inconclusive. However the older law which required a duty to retreat suffered from the same basic problem. Without witnesses and evidence to the contrary, a person could simply claim that he did try to retreat and it would be impossible for the prosecution to prove otherwise. I expect the wording of the law will be reviewed and possibly changed but would it be fair to put a person in prison merely because of a lack of witnesses or evidence to prove that he failed to used legitimate self defense? That would require the jury to assume that he was guilty without evidence and would be totally against our system of justice in which a person is innocent until proven guilty. It is unfortunately a real conundrum.
There is a long history of legal rulings on self defense in our nation.
Self-defense (United States)
Runyan v. State (1877) 57 Ind. 80, 20 Am.Rep. 52, is one of the earliest cases to strongly support and establish in U.S. law an individual's right to initiate self-defense actions up to and including the justifiable use of lethal force against an aggressor.
In Runyan, the court stated "When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justiciable."emphasis added
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense_%28United_States%29
Obviously this ruling not only supported self defense but also "stand your ground".
I, like you, am well aware of what guns can do when misused. Unfortunately I recently experienced a personal loss involving an individual who used a handgun to commit suicide. Alcohol was involved.
Your third link does provide an interesting story with a good lesson.
Florida-style 'Stand Your Ground' gun laws sub impulse for intelligent thinking
***snip***
A large black man, big enough to play linebacker for the Chicago Bears, grabbed me by my coat, and slammed me against a concrete wall.
A Florida-style Stand Your Ground law would have explicitly entitled me to meet force with force without having to retreat first, if I believed it were necessary to prevent death or bodily harm to myself.
Breathing alcohol fumes on me, this huge man asked, What did you think of my leader?
I thought Dr. King was a great man, I answered. The poor fellows eyes welled with tears. He released me and shuffled off weeping.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Walter-Rodgers/2012/0430/Florida-style-Stand-Your-Ground-gun-laws-sub-impulse-for-intelligent-thinking
While it is possible that the "Stand Your Ground" law might have allowed the use of deadly force in this situation it is also possible that the writer would have faced prosecution. Much depends on the actual disparity in size and condition.
In the same situation, I would have attempted to defuse the situation as the writer did. If that failed, I might have used what remains of my martial arts training in jujitsu to attempt to stop his attack. I will not describe the technique I immediately thought of, but it is brutal and effective.
I am 65 years old and considered handicapped as I am a candidate for a hip replacement and also suffer from degenerative disc disease. Legally it would be foolish to attack me in such a manner, but still I would prefer to use non lethal force rather than use the firearm that I carry. I reserve that for situations that lack any other choice.
But if I was younger and in far better shape, a prosecutor in Florida might well decide that merely because I was slammed up against a wall, I had no reason to expect that my health or life was in danger. Much would depend on the difference in size and weight between myself and my attacker. I could point out that it is unwise to start a fight irregardless of the difference between you and your opponent.
I would like mention that despite the skyrocketing number of firearms in our nation and the spread of "shall issue" concealed carry we have actually experienced a decrease in violent crime that is now approaching the levels experienced in the 60s which was a fairly peaceful time. There are many factors to consider in why the violent crime level has dropped so dramatically, but it should be obvious that neither the proliferation of firearms or the passage of concealed carry laws has not caused the violent crime rate to rise.
Crime in the United States
In 2009 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1968, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1964. Overall, the national crime rate was 3466 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 3680 crimes per 100,000 residents forty years earlier in 1969 (-9.4%).
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
61 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
No we won't - there are so many examples of spontaneous mass shoot outs in theaters
hack89
Apr 2012
#12
which makes it all the more stupid that he got out of his car and followed Trayvon
magical thyme
Apr 2012
#5
And everyone else will tell you Zimmerman should have never gotten out of his damned car
Hugabear
Apr 2012
#7
Fear is an adrenaline high, an addiction. When it cycles down, one needs another fix to feel alive.
freshwest
Apr 2012
#9
What is funny is that this drug, and yes it is a drug, it is an adrenalin high
nadinbrzezinski
Apr 2012
#11
Strange. I have a Concealed Weapons Permit and I don't think that everybody I see is armed.
spin
Apr 2012
#16
Human nature being what it is, I actually agree with this. Good point Nadin nt
riderinthestorm
Apr 2012
#23
How do we protect ourselves from this group of people who are now walking
Baitball Blogger
Apr 2012
#34