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In reply to the discussion: History question - Did we call the Irish Republican Army "Roman Catholic Terrorists"? [View all]sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)111. I completely agree that some people here have no concept of the fact that the
'troubles' were just another struggle for Rights in the long, sad over 800 year old brutal oppression of the people of Ireland.
A few point to the tragic deaths of those who became victims of that latest struggle. I could not agree more with you on whose hands the blood is for every death that has occurred in Ireland from the beginning of the Occupation:
I can't see them in terms of a number: each one was a living human being, with hopes and dreams, who had his/her life cut short by terrible violence. Their numbers are best added to those killed by the occupying forces, and the sum-total viewed as blood on the hands of the British.
I did respond to one of the 'numbers' questions with more numbers. If we are to talk about numbers, then we cannot stop counting at the numbers from that latest in a long list of 'troubles' in the fight for Indepence.
The Genocide of the Irish people by starvation, eg, resulted in the elimination of nearly half the population airc. That's a very big number, but not apparently always calculated into the 'numbers game' for some reason.
I was asked to document my claim that the Native Irish and African American formed a natural alliance. That was easy of course, but was another example of people here not knowing much of anything, other than the Imperial propaganda we here in the US are served up regularly on ALL of those places where the victims of Imperial occupation were, or still are, involved their own struggles for Independence.
President Obama did know of that history between AAs and Native Irish freedom fighters and referred to during his visit to Ireland in 2011. I was happy to see that. You might find this comment interesting, though I'm sure you are aware of the rich history between between both those here and in Ireland, and in India, South America and elsewhere who were also victims of the same Imperial powers: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6284616
Regarding the torture program that became US policy under Bush/Cheney? Absolutely it is similar to the torture program used on the Irish. I have a friend from NI who also visited Bobby Sands when in prison and received notes written in tiny print on toilet paper, letting the world know of the torture that was taking place within that prison.
Imperialism has been cause of so much misery in the world. This country's original rejection of Imperialism gave hope to many of its victims and was an inspiration to many, including the Irish, to try to follow the example of our FFs.
Imperialism has long and far reaching effects, on generation after generation.
I always find your comments to be so interesting, and your knowledge of Ireland's struggle for independence is so worth sharing here.
Btw, have you ever read Leon Uris's 'Trinity'? I was lucky enough to meet him and he gave me a copy of the book signed by him.
He told me he 'loved going to Ireland, because the people 'love me'. Lol, they do love him and very much appreciated the work and research he did for that book.
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History question - Did we call the Irish Republican Army "Roman Catholic Terrorists"? [View all]
jberryhill
Feb 2015
OP
No, it was not a religious war. Think of the American Revolution and you will better understand what
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#16
Whatever the strong religious identification, it wasn't a religious war
riderinthestorm
Feb 2015
#97
Religion is a tribal marker for most humans. In urban gang territories, wearing a color
tblue37
Feb 2015
#105
Empires always call resistance to their occupations 'terrorists'. The Founding Fathers were
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#21
Wrong, the occupation of Ireland began BEFORE Henry V111 formed his own religion, when the Roman
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#144
No. We were NOT tracing the first conflict, but the first conflict related to IRA.
Buzz Clik
Mar 2015
#148
No, we were attempting to correct the rewriting, mostly by the Bush Sr and Thatcher
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#151
So? That doesn't mean there wasn't ever conflict identified with religious factions. n/t
pnwmom
Mar 2015
#138
Irish Americans identified with the Native Irish. Republicans like Bush Sr eg, identified with the
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#23
You're right, it doesn't break down among the ordinary people into 'republicans v democrats' at all.
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#27
true, but since the wealth did go to people of slightly different ethnicity- more Norman /blonder..
bettyellen
Feb 2015
#38
Sounds like Somalia. Everyone is the same race and religion, but clan differences going back 9
leveymg
Feb 2015
#48
Yep, spent a month in Belfast and everyone did the back round check, which went on for a
bettyellen
Feb 2015
#50
Lucky for your brother he was able to get out. Just being a young, 'native irish/catholic' teenager
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#64
you know he only had a decent job at all over there because Kennedy had some bill passed that
bettyellen
Feb 2015
#82
Oh gosh, if I hear that song again, I will have to stick a knife in my ears, LOL….
bettyellen
Mar 2015
#163
I did find it on Utube, and plan to watch it as soon as a I get a chance. I will look for the boom
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#177
Sure thing! The filmaker got a ton of grief from the Irish American communty for including
bettyellen
Mar 2015
#179
Republican in Ireland, is not the same as Republican here. 'The Republic of Ireland'
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#156
No. Because they really didn't give a shit about whether transubstantiation was real or not.
Nye Bevan
Feb 2015
#10
It is interesting the long term issues that came since this major Christian sect split
JonLP24
Mar 2015
#169
Did we call the British Empire who invaded Ireland, suppressed and impoverished
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#12
Great summary, but the Nationalist were inspired directly by MLK, you will see his framed picture
bettyellen
Feb 2015
#39
Yes, you are correct. MLK did have a huge influence on the Irish. McAlisky described the
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#128
They are all books about politics or terrorism from well known publishers
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2015
#28
We interviewed his brother Dominick and asked his first interaction with the RUC, he said he was a
bettyellen
Feb 2015
#40
Thank you, Jerry Adams will join all the other Irish heroes who fought for and eventually gained
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#67
Were the Founding Fathers vicious murderers? The rebels, like the Founding Fathers here,
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#60
So it's not the word 'Catholic' you object to, but 'terrorist', for the Provisional IRA?
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2015
#37
So the Provisional IRA killed 510 civilians, but you don't think they were terrorists?
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2015
#42
More than a million died in the Potato Famine - a holocaust and attempted genocide
riderinthestorm
Feb 2015
#45
I'm seeing it from the perspective of 510 dead civilians in Northern Ireland
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2015
#56
I didn't notice you acknowledging anything about the 'fall-out' for the British
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2015
#79
Try seeing it from the perspective of half the population of Ireland over the course of the Imperial
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#81
Neither Dr. King nor Malcolm X advocated killing civilians, though
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2015
#84
If the imperialist British occupiers of Ireland would simple go back where they came from,
Zorra
Feb 2015
#87
If there was no British Occupation of Ireland, there would have been no need for the IRA
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#127
Thanks, sabrina1. The British occupation and holocaust of Ireland has been swept under the rug
Zorra
Mar 2015
#186
They were a terrorist organisation. There's absolutely no dispute when it comes to that...
Violet_Crumble
Feb 2015
#122
Obviously there's tremendous dispute over whether the IRA is a terrorist organization
riderinthestorm
Mar 2015
#174
What a lie! The British Army and NI loyalists were STILL butchering Irish
riderinthestorm
Mar 2015
#188
I object to the rewriting of history. I have zero objection to either 'Catholic or Portestant' or
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#62
I completely agree that some people here have no concept of the fact that the
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#111
I would love to read your sons' book, if you email me the title I would certainly
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#160
Obama's Irish ancestry was celebrated with "No One's as Irish as Barack Obama"
eridani
Feb 2015
#124
Are you still stalking me on Google and elsewhere? And did you have something you wanted to say to
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#90
Admin has provided a helpful search box up to the right.....powered by google.
msanthrope
Feb 2015
#107
Seriously?: "Ties between political activists in Black America and Ireland span several centuries"
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#108
The IRA were Excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. So to claim they
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#114
And I am explaining to you why you are wrong. Calling the IRA 'catholic terrorists' is ludicrous
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#116
I wonder if you, by drawing attention to the original use of the word 'terror' or 'terrorist'
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#118
I abhor violence of any kind. When countries are invaded, you appear to believe that all the
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#121
It's you calling the violent IRA 'heroes' that means you condone it
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2015
#123
Was Mandela a violent terrorist? The same British Empire called HIM a terrorist also.
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#130
The IRA did not target civilians. Now you're making it necessary to expose the British Agents who
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#133
Do you think Hamas and Islamic Jihad targetted civilians with suicide bombings?
Violet_Crumble
Mar 2015
#134
Do you think Imperial Colonialists bombs were indiscriminate? The latest, eg, in Iraq?
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#147
Actually we KNOW for a fact that 'terrorizing civilian populations' in order to 'soften' them
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#162
I am saying the OPPOSITE of 'it's okay to target civilians'. Which is what Empires do. See Iraq
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#141
You're saying it was OK for the PIRA to purposely kill over 500 civilians (nt)
muriel_volestrangler
Mar 2015
#143
Let's keep playing. You're saying it is okay for the British to ethnically cleanse the Native Irish
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#145
You call the PIRA 'heroes'. You blame those 510 deaths on other people.
muriel_volestrangler
Mar 2015
#146
Bombing civilians IS terrorism. You have repeatedly ignored this for some reason.
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#149
"Bombing civilians IS terrorism" - then the Provisional IRA are terrorists
muriel_volestrangler
Mar 2015
#155
Thanks for agreeing that all the violence in the North of Ireland and all the blood shed
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#157
Past wrongs? Are you seriously unaware of the, putting it very mildly, bigotry, torture, brutality
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#173
But the point is OTHER people, here and in England, often referred to them as a Catholic terrorist
pnwmom
Mar 2015
#139
And the answer is, Imperial powers ALWAYS call those who resist their occupations and brutal
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#142
Because this wasn't a religious war - it was a war for independence from the British
riderinthestorm
Feb 2015
#15
Thank you, I see you know your history. It was a fight for Independence that was centuries long.
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#19
Agreed. Demographically the North will turn Irish just with sheer numbers
riderinthestorm
Feb 2015
#22
The Bush Sr regime in the US turned the IRA into 'terrorists'. Clinton intervened when he was
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#26
I believe Fenian was used quite a bit which wrapped up catholicism and republicanism in a little bow
Bosonic
Feb 2015
#32
For whatever reason, the "Western" world has for a long time drawn more of a distinction.....
YoungDemCA
Feb 2015
#44
For the same reason we didn't call the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan
BobbyBoring
Feb 2015
#52
Some utterly simplistic Northern Ireland "history" in this thread , complete bollocks much of it..
pkdu
Feb 2015
#61
Every Irish bar in NYC had a collection box for the IRA, and plenty of churches besides
alcibiades_mystery
Feb 2015
#68
Bush Sr was the one who tried to turn Americans against the Native Irish People's struggle for
sabrina 1
Feb 2015
#71
I'm more interested in whether they were specifically called out as catholic.
jberryhill
Feb 2015
#78
The Americans probably didn't. The Paisleyites of Northern Ireland certainly did.
LeftishBrit
Feb 2015
#69
The IRA is a politically motivated resistance/revolutionary movement dedicated to
Zorra
Feb 2015
#86
Go ahead and find a post where I've said the Palestinians aren't allowed to resist.
riderinthestorm
Mar 2015
#181
They were not a transnational movement and they didn't declare universal war on every unbeliever.
hack89
Feb 2015
#106
Well done...For your next challenge, ask if Israeli nationalists are "Jewish Terrorists"
Blue_Tires
Feb 2015
#112
PS: 'Protestant terrorists' was also not infrequently used as a term, though too many did accept the
LeftishBrit
Mar 2015
#189