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JonLP24

(29,915 posts)

169. It is interesting the long term issues that came since this major Christian sect split

Mon Mar 2, 2015, 04:19 AM

Mar 2015

While more recent was more ideological or other politically motivated (primarily oppression), the identity politics from race, religion, etc still played a role.

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History question - Did we call the Irish Republican Army "Roman Catholic Terrorists"? [View all] jberryhill Feb 2015 OP

Ask Peter King (R-NY) YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #1

Not nearly loud enough. JHB Feb 2015 #17

I'm pretty sure the British did. n/t nichomachus Feb 2015 #2

they called them terrorists, yes. but not so much religious terrorists. unblock Feb 2015 #9

Oh, no. It was all about religion. nichomachus Feb 2015 #11

No, it was not a religious war. Think of the American Revolution and you will better understand what sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #16

What? No mention of the Big Fellow? R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2015 #18

I'll mention Michael Collins as he's a hero to this Irishwoman nt riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #20

To this one,too.... SiobhanClancy Feb 2015 #85

Sorry, I should have mentioned him. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #70

That's a bit simplistic, I think. Adrahil Feb 2015 #92

Whatever the strong religious identification, it wasn't a religious war riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #97

Exactly right. H2O Man Feb 2015 #104

Religion is a tribal marker for most humans. In urban gang territories, wearing a color tblue37 Feb 2015 #105

It was not about religion. truebluegreen Feb 2015 #102

Wrong. They called them Catholic terrorists. pnwmom Mar 2015 #135

The war was frequently spun as a fight between Catholic's and Protestants. FLPanhandle Feb 2015 #3

Empires always call resistance to their occupations 'terrorists'. The Founding Fathers were sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #21

There is a difference between rebels and partisans and "terrorists." Adrahil Feb 2015 #93

What would you call those responsible for Bloody Sunday in NI? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #101

That is a really good point. Drahthaardogs Feb 2015 #126

No. War is terrorism practiced by the strong, truebluegreen Feb 2015 #103

Some did. Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #4

No, there was conflict before there were ever KatyMan Feb 2015 #46

Nope. The conflict traces back to the 17th century Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #53

Try the 12th century! n/t Adrahil Feb 2015 #94

No. Buzz Clik Feb 2015 #96

Wrong, the occupation of Ireland began BEFORE Henry V111 formed his own religion, when the Roman sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #144

No. We were NOT tracing the first conflict, but the first conflict related to IRA. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #148

No, we were attempting to correct the rewriting, mostly by the Bush Sr and Thatcher sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #151

Whatever. Have fun. I'm done. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #152

My, my, my. The cave dwellers certainly obsess over trivial matters. Buzz Clik Mar 2015 #166

So? That doesn't mean there wasn't ever conflict identified with religious factions. n/t pnwmom Mar 2015 #138

because their motives were primarily political and economic unblock Feb 2015 #5

Mass demonization requires mass hypocrisy? Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #6

They certainly were by many Irish Protestants leveymg Feb 2015 #7

Irish Americans identified with the Native Irish. Republicans like Bush Sr eg, identified with the sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #23

I'm not sure it breaks down entirely along those lines. leveymg Feb 2015 #25

You're right, it doesn't break down among the ordinary people into 'republicans v democrats' at all. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #27

More a historical battle of the Patricians versus The People leveymg Feb 2015 #29

Yes, I would agree with that ... sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #30

true, but since the wealth did go to people of slightly different ethnicity- more Norman /blonder.. bettyellen Feb 2015 #38

Sounds like Somalia. Everyone is the same race and religion, but clan differences going back 9 leveymg Feb 2015 #48

Yep, spent a month in Belfast and everyone did the back round check, which went on for a bettyellen Feb 2015 #50

Lucky for your brother he was able to get out. Just being a young, 'native irish/catholic' teenager sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #64

you know he only had a decent job at all over there because Kennedy had some bill passed that bettyellen Feb 2015 #82

I would love to see it and will definitely try to find it. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #88

Oh gosh, if I hear that song again, I will have to stick a knife in my ears, LOL�. bettyellen Mar 2015 #163

I did find it on Utube, and plan to watch it as soon as a I get a chance. I will look for the boom sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #177

Sure thing! The filmaker got a ton of grief from the Irish American communty for including bettyellen Mar 2015 #179

I am glad they didn't. I like Republican in the title way more! yeoman6987 Feb 2015 #8

Republican in Ireland, is not the same as Republican here. 'The Republic of Ireland' sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #156

No. Because they really didn't give a shit about whether transubstantiation was real or not. Nye Bevan Feb 2015 #10

Exactly. If the British stayed Catholic KatyMan Feb 2015 #47

Not initially perhaps... Adrahil Feb 2015 #95

It is interesting the long term issues that came since this major Christian sect split JonLP24 Mar 2015 #169

Did we call the British Empire who invaded Ireland, suppressed and impoverished sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #12

Great summary, but the Nationalist were inspired directly by MLK, you will see his framed picture bettyellen Feb 2015 #39

Yes, you are correct. MLK did have a huge influence on the Irish. McAlisky described the sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #128

'Roman' wasn't used much, but 'Catholic', yes muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #13

Lol, I wonder who wrote all of that? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #24

They are all books about politics or terrorism from well known publishers muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #28

I asked about Pearse among others, the 1916 rebels and the equivalent sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #31

You mean they were vicious murderers? Because that's what Adams and co. were mr blur Feb 2015 #33

There would not be peace today without Gerry Adams riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #36

We interviewed his brother Dominick and asked his first interaction with the RUC, he said he was a bettyellen Feb 2015 #40

Thank you, Jerry Adams will join all the other Irish heroes who fought for and eventually gained sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #67

Were the Founding Fathers vicious murderers? The rebels, like the Founding Fathers here, sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #60

So it's not the word 'Catholic' you object to, but 'terrorist', for the Provisional IRA? muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #37

It's only a terrorist organization to you Brits. riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #41

So the Provisional IRA killed 510 civilians, but you don't think they were terrorists? muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #42

More than a million died in the Potato Famine - a holocaust and attempted genocide riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #45

What makes you think being angry stops someone being a terrorist? muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #49

Nope they were waging a war for independence riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #54

I'm seeing it from the perspective of 510 dead civilians in Northern Ireland muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #56

Okay, you two! H2O Man Feb 2015 #57

O Thank You, Fount of All Knowledge and Definitions muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #58

You are welcome! H2O Man Feb 2015 #59

Thanks for this Patrick. riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #76

I notice you haven't mentioned the millions of Irish murders. Not once riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #75

I didn't notice you acknowledging anything about the 'fall-out' for the British muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #79

Try seeing it from the perspective of half the population of Ireland over the course of the Imperial sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #81

Neither Dr. King nor Malcolm X advocated killing civilians, though muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #84

If the imperialist British occupiers of Ireland would simple go back where they came from, Zorra Feb 2015 #87

If there was no British Occupation of Ireland, there would have been no need for the IRA sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #127

Thanks, sabrina1. The British occupation and holocaust of Ireland has been swept under the rug Zorra Mar 2015 #186

They were a terrorist organisation. There's absolutely no dispute when it comes to that... Violet_Crumble Feb 2015 #122

Obviously there's tremendous dispute over whether the IRA is a terrorist organization riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #174

No, not really... Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #178

Ah well, this discussion is going nowhere fast as expected. riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #180

Excellent points LeftishBrit Mar 2015 #184

What a lie! The British Army and NI loyalists were STILL butchering Irish riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #188

By your definition, then, the French Resistance who fought the Nazis in WWII Zorra Mar 2015 #185

Add George Washington and the Continental Army to that list as well riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #187

I object to the rewriting of history. I have zero objection to either 'Catholic or Portestant' or sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #62

And you've done H2O Man Feb 2015 #73

Thank you H2O Man, coming from you, that means a lot. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #89

This is a curious OP/thread. H2O Man Feb 2015 #91

I completely agree that some people here have no concept of the fact that the sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #111

My older son has H2O Man Feb 2015 #113

I would love to read your sons' book, if you email me the title I would certainly sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #160

Obama's Irish ancestry was celebrated with "No One's as Irish as Barack Obama" eridani Feb 2015 #124

I remember that, it was hilarious! Lol! sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #129

Thank you for this post. Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #125

Not unfamiliar......a google search msanthrope Feb 2015 #35

Are you still stalking me on Google and elsewhere? And did you have something you wanted to say to sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #90

Admin has provided a helpful search box up to the right.....powered by google. msanthrope Feb 2015 #107

Seriously?: "Ties between political activists in Black America and Ireland span several centuries" sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #108

The IRA were Excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. So to claim they sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #114

'Republican' is a good adjective - the 'R' of 'IRA', after all muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #115

And I am explaining to you why you are wrong. Calling the IRA 'catholic terrorists' is ludicrous sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #116

You appear to have just called the British 'heroes' muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #117

I wonder if you, by drawing attention to the original use of the word 'terror' or 'terrorist' sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #118

No, I have not been ignoring those deaths muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #119

I abhor violence of any kind. When countries are invaded, you appear to believe that all the sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #121

It's you calling the violent IRA 'heroes' that means you condone it muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #123

Was Mandela a violent terrorist? The same British Empire called HIM a terrorist also. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #130

Mandela did not target civilians muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #131

The IRA did not target civilians. Now you're making it necessary to expose the British Agents who sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #133

Do you think Hamas and Islamic Jihad targetted civilians with suicide bombings? Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #134

Do you think Imperial Colonialists bombs were indiscriminate? The latest, eg, in Iraq? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #147

Of course they were. Now can you answer the question I asked? Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #161

Actually we KNOW for a fact that 'terrorizing civilian populations' in order to 'soften' them sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #162

They targeted civilians. They planted bombs in public places. muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #140

I am saying the OPPOSITE of 'it's okay to target civilians'. Which is what Empires do. See Iraq sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #141

You're saying it was OK for the PIRA to purposely kill over 500 civilians (nt) muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #143

Let's keep playing. You're saying it is okay for the British to ethnically cleanse the Native Irish sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #145

You call the PIRA 'heroes'. You blame those 510 deaths on other people. muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #146

Bombing civilians IS terrorism. You have repeatedly ignored this for some reason. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #149

"Bombing civilians IS terrorism" - then the Provisional IRA are terrorists muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #155

Thanks for agreeing that all the violence in the North of Ireland and all the blood shed sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #157

Past wrongs? Are you seriously unaware of the, putting it very mildly, bigotry, torture, brutality sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #173

Did "we" call the IRA Catholic terrorists? PaddyIrishman Mar 2015 #165

But the point is OTHER people, here and in England, often referred to them as a Catholic terrorist pnwmom Mar 2015 #139

And the answer is, Imperial powers ALWAYS call those who resist their occupations and brutal sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #142

No, but Guy Fawks was. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #14

Because this wasn't a religious war - it was a war for independence from the British riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #15

Thank you, I see you know your history. It was a fight for Independence that was centuries long. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #19

Agreed. Demographically the North will turn Irish just with sheer numbers riderinthestorm Feb 2015 #22

The Bush Sr regime in the US turned the IRA into 'terrorists'. Clinton intervened when he was sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #26

A Nation once again ..... H2O Man Mar 2015 #150

I believe Fenian was used quite a bit which wrapped up catholicism and republicanism in a little bow Bosonic Feb 2015 #32

they weren't "terrorists" H2O Man Feb 2015 #34

Oh? alcibiades_mystery Feb 2015 #66

No. H2O Man Feb 2015 #72

I believe so and everyone knew it was. hrmjustin Feb 2015 #43

For whatever reason, the "Western" world has for a long time drawn more of a distinction..... YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #44

Sinn F�in slams Catholic Church attack on same sex marriages Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #51

For the same reason we didn't call the Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan BobbyBoring Feb 2015 #52

Catholicism was not the driving force ... Oktober Feb 2015 #55

Some utterly simplistic Northern Ireland "history" in this thread , complete bollocks much of it.. pkdu Feb 2015 #61

Yes, they were called "Roman Catholic Terrorists" csziggy Feb 2015 #63

I thought they were always called terrorists treestar Feb 2015 #65

Every Irish bar in NYC had a collection box for the IRA, and plenty of churches besides alcibiades_mystery Feb 2015 #68

Bush Sr was the one who tried to turn Americans against the Native Irish People's struggle for sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #71

I'm more interested in whether they were specifically called out as catholic. jberryhill Feb 2015 #78

I see. I don't recall that, as in Ireland treestar Feb 2015 #83

A surprisingly reasonable post JonLP24 Mar 2015 #170

Bush Sr called them terrorists, Clinton reversed Sr's policies towards them. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #98

The Americans probably didn't. The Paisleyites of Northern Ireland certainly did. LeftishBrit Feb 2015 #69

Right, the Paisleyites did, and plenty of people in America as well. pnwmom Mar 2015 #137

IIRC, the IRA were noted as being Catholic, hifiguy Feb 2015 #74

Terrorists and other racial slure ...there are online databases of those HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #77

Yes , at least in Europe. wennad Feb 2015 #80

The IRA is a politically motivated resistance/revolutionary movement dedicated to Zorra Feb 2015 #86

Thanks for the history, Zorra. pnwmom Mar 2015 #158

You're welcome. That's just the tip of the iceberg. nt Zorra Mar 2015 #183

They were a terrorist organisation... Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #168

The analogy to the I/P conflict is flawed. riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #175

It's a pretty solid analogy Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #176

Go ahead and find a post where I've said the Palestinians aren't allowed to resist. riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #181

I'll answer it. Zorra Mar 2015 #182

What is and or was the stated purpose? Savannahmann Feb 2015 #99

Good points jberryhill Feb 2015 #100

IS has well financed & a variety of organizations structure JonLP24 Mar 2015 #172

What is being left out JonLP24 Mar 2015 #171

They were not a transnational movement and they didn't declare universal war on every unbeliever. hack89 Feb 2015 #106

My wife and I both have ancestors who got the hell out of Ireland... hunter Feb 2015 #109

Great post malaise Feb 2015 #110

Well done...For your next challenge, ask if Israeli nationalists are "Jewish Terrorists" Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #112

Yes AgingAmerican Feb 2015 #120

We didn't and with a good reason: their goals were political, not religious Wella Feb 2015 #132

No. People usually just called them "Catholic terrorists." pnwmom Mar 2015 #136

NYT: Articles about the Irish Republican Army Zorra Mar 2015 #154

That would include O'Reilly, right? randr Mar 2015 #153

especially Ironic DonCoquixote Mar 2015 #159

Actually we would call the British the terrorists, not the IRA RB TexLa Mar 2015 #164

I come from an Irish Catholic family ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2015 #167

PS: 'Protestant terrorists' was also not infrequently used as a term, though too many did accept the LeftishBrit Mar 2015 #189