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Showing Original Post only (View all)The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism (John Pilger) [View all]
The Rise of a Democratic Fascism
Traditional fascism is defined as a right-wing political system run by a dictator who prohibits dissent and relies on repression. But some analysts believe a new form of fascism has arisen that has a democratic façade and is based on relentless propaganda and endless war, as journalist John Pilger describes.
By John Pilger
ConsortiumNews.com, March 2, 2015
The recent 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz was a reminder of the great crime of fascism, whose Nazi iconography is embedded in our consciousness. Fascism is preserved as history, as flickering footage of goose-stepping blackshirts, their criminality terrible and clear. Yet in the same liberal societies, whose war-making elites urge us never to forget, the accelerating danger of a modern kind of fascism is suppressed; for it is their fascism.
To initiate a war of aggression , said the Nuremberg Tribunal judges in 1946, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.
Had the Nazis not invaded Europe, Auschwitz and the Holocaust would not have happened. Had the United States and its satellites not initiated their war of aggression in Iraq in 2003, almost a million people would be alive today; and Islamic State, or ISIS, would not have us in thrall to its savagery. They are the progeny of modern fascism, weaned by the bombs, bloodbaths and lies that are the surreal theatre known as news.
Like the fascism of the 1930s and 1940s, big lies are delivered with the precision of a metronome: thanks to an omnipresent, repetitive media and its virulent censorship by omission. Take the catastrophe in Libya.
In 2011, Nato launched 9,700 strike sorties against Libya, of which more than a third were aimed at civilian targets. Uranium warheads were used; the cities of Misurata and Sirte were carpet-bombed. The Red Cross identified mass graves, and Unicef reported that most [of the children killed] were under the age of ten.
Gaddafis Torture/Lynching
The public sodomizing of the Libyan president Muammar Gaddafi with a rebel bayonet was greeted by the then U.S. Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, with the words: We came, we saw, he died. His murder, like the destruction of his country, was justified with a familiar big lie; he was planning genocide against his own people.
We knew that if we waited one more day, said President Barack Obama, Benghazi, a city the size of Charlotte, could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world.
This was the fabrication of Islamist militias facing defeat by Libyan government forces. They told Reuters there would be a real bloodbath, a massacre like we saw in Rwanda. Reported on March 14, 2011, the lie provided the first spark for NATOs inferno, described by David Cameron as a humanitarian intervention.
Secretly supplied and trained by Britains SAS, many of the rebels would become ISIS, whose latest video offering shows the beheading of 21 Coptic Christian workers seized in Sirte, the city destroyed on their behalf by NATO bombers.
For Obama, Cameron and Hollande, Gaddafis true crime was Libyas economic independence and his declared intention to stop selling Africas greatest oil reserves in U.S. dollars. The petrodollar is a pillar of American imperial power.
Gaddafi audaciously planned to underwrite a common African currency backed by gold, establish an all-Africa bank and promote economic union among poor countries with prized resources. Whether or not this would happen, the very notion was intolerable to the U.S. as it prepared to enter Africa and bribe African governments with military partnerships.
Following NATOs attack under cover of a Security Council resolution, Obama, wrote Garikai Chengu, confiscated $30 billion from Libyas Central Bank, which Gaddafi had earmarked for the establishment of an African Central Bank and the African gold backed dinar currency.
The Kosovo Model
The humanitarian war against Libya drew on a model close to western liberal hearts, especially in the media. In 1999, Bill Clinton and Tony Blair sent NATO to bomb Serbia, because, they lied, the Serbs were committing genocide against ethnic Albanians in the secessionist province of Kosovo.
David Scheffer, U.S. ambassador-at-large for war crimes [sic], claimed that as many as 225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59? might have been murdered. Both Clinton and Blair evoked the Holocaust and the spirit of the Second World War.
The Wests heroic allies were the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), whose criminal record was set aside. The British Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook, told them to call him any time on his mobile phone.
With the NATO bombing over, and much of Serbias infrastructure in ruins, along with schools, hospitals, monasteries and the national TV station, international forensic teams descended upon Kosovo to exhume evidence of the holocaust. The FBI failed to find a single mass grave and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same, its leader angrily denouncing a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines.
A year later, a United Nations tribunal on Yugoslavia announced the final count of the dead in Kosovo: 2,788. This included combatants on both sides and Serbs and Roma murdered by the KLA. There was no genocide. The holocaust was a lie. The NATO attack had been fraudulent.
Expanding Markets
Behind the lie, there was serious purpose. Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent, multi-ethnic federation that had stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. Most of its utilities and major manufacturing was publicly owned. This was not acceptable to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had begun a drive east to capture its natural market in the Yugoslav provinces of Croatia and Slovenia.
By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht in 1991 to lay their plans for the disastrous eurozone, a secret deal had been struck; Germany would recognize Croatia. Yugoslavia was doomed.
In Washington, the U.S. saw that the struggling Yugoslav economy was denied World Bank loans. NATO, then an almost defunct Cold War relic, was reinvented as imperial enforcer. At a 1999 Kosovo peace conference in Rambouillet, in France, the Serbs were subjected to the enforcers duplicitous tactics.
The Rambouillet accord included a secret Annex B, which the U.S. delegation inserted on the last day. This demanded the military occupation of the whole of Yugoslavia a country with bitter memories of the Nazi occupation and the implementation of a free-market economy and the privatization of all government assets. No sovereign state could sign this. Punishment followed swiftly; NATO bombs fell on a defenseless country. It was the precursor to the catastrophes in Afghanistan and Iraq, Syria and Libya, and Ukraine.
American Interventions
Since 1945, more than a third of the membership of the United Nations 69 countries have suffered some or all of the following at the hands of Americas modern fascism. They have been invaded, their governments overthrown, their popular movements suppressed, their elections subverted, their people bombed and their economies stripped of all protection, their societies subjected to a crippling siege known as sanctions. The British historian Mark Curtis estimates the death toll in the millions. In every case, a big lie was deployed.
Tonight, for the first time since 9/11, our combat mission in Afghanistan is over. These were opening words of Obamas 2015 State of the Union address. In fact, some 10,000 troops and 20,000 military contractors (mercenaries) remain in Afghanistan on indefinite assignment.
The longest war in American history is coming to a responsible conclusion, said Obama. In fact, more civilians were killed in Afghanistan in 2014 than in any year since the UN took records. The majority have been killed civilians and soldiers during Obamas time as president.
The tragedy of Afghanistan rivals the epic crime in Indochina. In his lauded and much quoted book, The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives, Zbigniew Brzezinski, the godfather of U.S. policies from Afghanistan to the present day, writes that if America is to control Eurasia and dominate the world, it cannot sustain a popular democracy, because the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion. . . . Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization. He is right.
As WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden have revealed, a surveillance and police state is usurping democracy. In 1976, Brzezinski, then President Jimmy Carters National Security Advisor, demonstrated his point by dealing a death blow to Afghanistans first and only democracy. Who knows this vital history?
Afghans Shining Moment
In the 1960s, a popular revolution swept Afghanistan, the poorest country on earth, eventually overthrowing the vestiges of the aristocratic regime in 1978. The Peoples Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) formed a government and declared a reform program that included the abolition of feudalism, freedom for all religions, equal rights for women and social justice for the ethnic minorities. More than 13,000 political prisoners were freed and police files publicly burned.
The new government introduced free medical care for the poorest; peonage was abolished, a mass literacy programme was launched. For women, the gains were unheard of. By the late 1980s, half the university students were women, and women made up almost half of Afghanistans doctors, a third of civil servants and the majority of teachers.
Every girl, recalled Saira Noorani, a female surgeon, could go to high school and university. We could go where we wanted and wear what we liked. We used to go to cafes and the cinema to see the latest Indian film on a Friday and listen to the latest music. It all started to go wrong when the mujaheddin started winning. They used to kill teachers and burn schools. We were terrified. It was funny and sad to think these were the people the West supported.
The PDPA government was backed by the Soviet Union, even though, as former Secretary of State Cyrus Vance later admitted, there was no evidence of any Soviet complicity [in the revolution]. Alarmed by the growing confidence of liberation movements throughout the world, Brzezinski decided that if Afghanistan was to succeed under the PDPA, its independence and progress would offer the threat of a promising example.
On July 3, 1979, the White House secretly authorized support for tribal fundamentalist groups known as the mujaheddin, a program that grew to over $500 million a year in U.S. arms and other assistance. The aim was the overthrow of Afghanistans first secular, reformist government.
In August 1979, the U.S. Embassy in Kabul reported that the United States larger interests would be served by the demise of [the PDPA government], despite whatever setbacks this might mean for future social and economic reforms in Afghanistan. The italics are mine.
The mujaheddin were the forebears of al-Qaeda and Islamic State. They included Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who received tens of millions of dollars in cash from the CIA. Hekmatyars specialty was trafficking in opium and throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil. Invited to London, he was lauded by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher as a freedom fighter.
Such fanatics might have remained in their tribal world had Brzezinski not launched an international movement to promote Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and so undermine secular political liberation and destabilize the Soviet Union, creating, as he wrote in his autobiography, a few stirred up Muslims.
His grand plan coincided with the ambitions of the Pakistani dictator, General Zia ul-Haq, to dominate the region. In 1986, the CIA and Pakistans intelligence agency, the ISI, began to recruit people from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. The Saudi multi-millionaire Osama bin Laden was one of them.
Operatives who would eventually join the Taliban and al-Qaeda, were recruited at an Islamic college in Brooklyn, New York, and given paramilitary training at a CIA camp in Virginia. This was called Operation Cyclone. Its success was celebrated in 1996 when the last PDPA president of Afghanistan, Mohammed Najibullah who had gone before the UN General Assembly to plead for help was hanged from a streetlight by the Taliban.
The blowback of Operation Cyclone and its few stirred up Muslims was September 11, 2001. Operation Cyclone became the war on terror, in which countless men, women and children would lose their lives across the Muslim world, from Afghanistan to Iraq, Yemen, Somalia and Syria. The enforcers message was and remains: You are with us or against us.
Threads of Fascism
The common thread in fascism, past and present, is mass murder. The American invasion of Vietnam had its free fire zones, body counts and collateral damage. In the province of Quang Ngai, where I reported from, many thousands of civilians (gooks) were murdered by the U.S.; yet only one massacre, at My Lai, is remembered.
In Laos and Cambodia, the greatest aerial bombardment in history produced an epoch of terror marked today by the spectacle of joined-up bomb craters which, from the air, resemble monstrous necklaces. The bombing gave Cambodia its own ISIS, led by Pol Pot.
Today, the worlds greatest single campaign of terror entails the execution of entire families, guests at weddings, mourners at funerals. These are Obamas victims. According to the New York Times, Obama makes his selection from a CIA kill list presented to him every Tuesday in the White House Situation Room. He then decides, without a shred of legal justification, who will live and who will die. His execution weapon is the Hellfire missile carried by a pilotless aircraft known as a drone; these roast their victims and festoon the area with their remains. Each hit is registered on a faraway console screen as a bugsplat.
For goose-steppers, wrote the historian Norman Pollock, substitute the seemingly more innocuous militarization of the total culture. And for the bombastic leader, we have the reformer manque, blithely at work, planning and executing assassination, smiling all the while.
American Exceptionalism
Uniting fascism old and new is the cult of superiority. I believe in American exceptionalism with every fiber of my being, said Obama, evoking declarations of national fetishism from the 1930s.
As the historian Alfred W. McCoy has pointed out, it was the Hitler devotee, Carl Schmitt, who said, The sovereign is he who decides the exception. This sums up Americanism, the worlds dominant ideology. That it remains unrecognized as a predatory ideology is the achievement of an equally unrecognized brainwashing. Insidious, undeclared, presented wittily as enlightenment on the march, its conceit insinuates western culture.
I grew up on a cinematic diet of American glory, almost all of it a distortion. I had no idea that it was the Red Army that had destroyed most of the Nazi war machine, at a cost of as many as 13 million soldiers. By contrast, U.S. losses, including in the Pacific, were 400,000. Hollywood reversed this.
The difference now is that cinema audiences are invited to wring their hands at the tragedy of American psychopaths having to kill people in distant places just as the President himself kills them. The embodiment of Hollywoods violence, the actor and director Clint Eastwood, was nominated for an Oscar this year for his movie, American Sniper, which is about a licensed murderer and nutcase. The New York Times described it as a patriotic, pro-family picture which broke all attendance records in its opening days.
There are no heroic movies about Americas embrace of fascism. During the Second World War, America (and Britain) went to war against Greeks who had fought heroically against Nazism and were resisting the rise of Greek fascism. In 1967, the CIA helped bring to power a fascist military junta in Athens as it did in Brazil and most of Latin America.
Germans and east Europeans who had colluded with Nazi aggression and crimes against humanity were given safe haven in the U.S.; many were pampered and their talents rewarded. Wernher von Braun was the father of both the Nazi V-2 terror bomb and the U.S. space program.
In the 1990s, as former Soviet republics, eastern Europe and the Balkans became military outposts of NATO, the heirs to a Nazi movement in Ukraine were given their opportunity. Responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews, Poles and Russians during the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, Ukrainian fascism was rehabilitated and its new wave hailed by the enforcer as nationalists.
The Ukraine Coup
This reached its apogee in 2014 when the Obama administration splashed out $5 billion on a coup against the elected government. The shock troops were neo-Nazis known as the Right Sector and Svoboda. Their leaders include Oleh Tyahnybok, who has called for a purge of the Moscow-Jewish mafia and other scum, including gays, feminists and those on the political left.
These fascists are now integrated into the Kiev coup government. The first deputy speaker of the Ukrainian parliament, Andriy Parubiy, a leader of the governing party, is co-founder of Svoboda. On Feb. 14, Parubiy announced he was flying to Washington to get the USA to give us highly precise modern weaponry. If he succeeds, it will be seen as an act of war by Russia.
No western leader has spoken up about the revival of fascism in the heart of Europe with the exception of Vladimir Putin, whose people lost 22 million to a Nazi invasion that came through the borderland of Ukraine. At the recent Munich Security Conference, Obamas Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria Nuland, ranted abuse about European leaders for opposing the U.S. arming of the Kiev regime. She referred to the German Defense Minister as the minister for defeatism.
It was Nuland who masterminded the coup in Kiev. The wife of Robert Kagan, a leading neo-con luminary who was a co-founder of the Project for the New American Century, which began pushing for the invasion of Iraq in 1998. She was a foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney.
Nulands coup in Ukraine did not go to plan. NATO was prevented from seizing Russias historic, legitimate, warm-water naval base in Crimea. The mostly Russian population of Crimea illegally annexed to Ukraine by Nikita Krushchev in 1954 voted overwhelmingly to return to Russia, as they had done in the 1990s. The referendum was voluntary, popular and internationally observed. There was no invasion.
At the same time, the Kiev regime turned on the ethnic Russian population in the east with the ferocity of ethnic cleaning. Deploying neo-Nazi militias in the manner of the Waffen-SS, they bombed and laid to siege cities and towns. They used mass starvation as a weapon, cutting off electricity, freezing bank accounts, stopping social security and pensions.
More than a million refugees fled across the border into Russia. In the western media, they became unpeople escaping the violence caused by the Russian invasion. The NATO commander, General Breedlove whose name and actions might have been inspired by Stanley Kubricks Dr. Strangelove announced that 40,000 Russian troops were massing. In the age of forensic satellite evidence, he offered none.
Repressing Ethnic Russians
These Russian-speaking and bilingual people of Ukraine a third of the population have long sought a federation that reflects the countrys ethnic diversity and is both autonomous and independent of Moscow. Most are not separatists but citizens who want to live securely in their homeland and oppose the power grab in Kiev. Their revolt and establishment of autonomous states are a reaction to Kievs attacks on them. Little of this has been explained to western audiences.
On May 2, 2014, in Odessa, 41 ethnic Russians were burned alive in the trade union headquarters with police standing by. The Right Sector leader Dmytro Yarosh hailed the massacre as another bright day in our national history. In the American and British media, this was reported as a murky tragedy resulting from clashes between nationalists (neo-Nazis) and separatists (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine).
The New York Times buried the story, having dismissed as Russian propaganda warnings about the fascist and anti-Semitic policies of Washingtons new clients. The Wall Street Journal damned the victims Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says. Obama congratulated the junta for its restraint.
If Putin can be provoked into coming to their aid, his pre-ordained pariah role in the West will justify the lie that Russia is invading Ukraine. On Jan. 29, Ukraines top military commander, General Viktor Muzhemko, almost inadvertently dismissed the very basis for U.S. and EU sanctions on Russia when he told a news conference emphatically: The Ukrainian army is not fighting with the regular units of the Russian Army. There were individual citizens who were members of illegal armed groups, but there was no Russian invasion. This was not news.
Vadym Prystaiko, Kievs Deputy Foreign Minister, has called for full scale war with nuclear-armed Russia.
On Feb. 21, U.S. Sen. James Inhofe, a Republican from Oklahoma, introduced a bill that would authorize American arms for the Kiev regime. In his Senate presentation, Inhofe used photographs he claimed were of Russian troops crossing into Ukraine, which have long been exposed as fakes. It was reminiscent of Ronald Reagans fake pictures of a Soviet installation in Nicaragua, and Colin Powells fake evidence to the UN of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
The intensity of the smear campaign against Russia and the portrayal of its president as a pantomime villain is unlike anything I have known as a reporter. Robert Parry, one of Americas most distinguished investigative journalists, who revealed the Iran-Contra scandal, wrote recently, No European government, since Adolf Hitlers Germany, has seen fit to dispatch Nazi storm troopers to wage war on a domestic population, but the Kiev regime has and has done so knowingly. Yet across the Wests media/political spectrum, there has been a studious effort to cover up this reality even to the point of ignoring facts that have been well established.
If you wonder how the world could stumble into world war three much as it did into world war one a century ago all you need to do is look at the madness over Ukraine that has proved impervious to facts or reason.
Nuremberg Lessons
In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal prosecutor said of the German media: The use made by Nazi conspirators of psychological warfare is well known. Before each major aggression, with some few exceptions based on expediency, they initiated a press campaign calculated to weaken their victims and to prepare the German people psychologically for the attack.
In the propaganda system of the Hitler State it was the daily press and the radio that were the most important weapons.
In the Guardian on Feb. 2, Timothy Garton-Ash, an Oxford professor, called, in effect, for a world war. Putin must be stopped, said the headline. And sometimes only guns can stop guns. He conceded that the threat of war might nourish a Russian paranoia of encirclement; but that was fine. He name-checked the military equipment needed for the job and advised his readers that America has the best kit.
In 2003, Garton-Ash repeated the propaganda that led to the slaughter in Iraq. Saddam Hussein, he wrote, has, as [Colin] Powell documented, stockpiled large quantities of horrifying chemical and biological weapons, and is hiding what remains of them. He is still trying to get nuclear ones. He lauded Blair as a Gladstonian, Christian liberal interventionist. In 2006, he wrote, Now we face the next big test of the West after Iraq: Iran.
The outbursts or as Garton-Ash prefers, his tortured liberal ambivalence are not untypical of those in the transatlantic liberal elite who have struck a Faustian deal. The war criminal Blair is their lost leader.
The Guardian, in which Garton-Ashs piece appeared, published a full-page advertisement for an American Stealth bomber. On a menacing image of the Lockheed Martin monster were the words: The F-35. GREAT For Britain. This American kit will cost British taxpayers £1.3 billion, its F-model predecessors having slaughtered across the world. In tune with its advertiser, a Guardian editorial has demanded an increase in military spending.
Once again, there is serious purpose. The rulers of the world want Ukraine not only as a missile base; they want its economy. Kievs new Finance Minister, Natalie Jaresko, is a former senior U.S. State Department official who was hurriedly given Ukrainian citizenship.
They want Ukraine for its abundant gas; Vice President Joe Bidens son is on the board of Ukraines biggest oil, gas and fracking company. The manufacturers of GM seeds, companies such as the infamous Monsanto, want Ukraines rich farming soil.
Above all, they want Ukraines mighty neighbor, Russia. They want to Balkanize or dismember Russia and exploit the greatest source of natural gas on earth. As the Arctic ice melts, they want control of the Arctic Ocean and its energy riches, and Russias long Arctic land border.
Their man in Moscow used to be Boris Yeltsin, a drunk, who handed his countrys economy to the West. His successor, Putin, has re-established Russia as a sovereign nation; that is his crime.
The responsibility of the rest of us is clear. It is to identify and expose the reckless lies of warmongers and never to collude with them. It is to re-awaken the great popular movements that brought a fragile civilization to modern imperial states. Most important, it is to prevent the conquest of ourselves: our minds, our humanity, our self respect. If we remain silent, victory over us is assured, and a holocaust beckons.
John Pilger is an Australian-British journalist based in London. Pilgers Web site is: www.johnpilger.com
SOURCE: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/02/the-rise-of-a-democratic-fascism/
NOTE: Robert Parry and ConsortiumNews allow DUers to post articles in their entirety. This excellent read is an example of why that kindness makes sense for those interested in democracy.
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As opposed to Corporate McPravda that helped lie America into illegal wars of aggression?
Octafish
Mar 2015
#65
Pilger claims President Obama spent $5 billion in 2014 to finance a coup in Ukraine.
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#78
Where in the OP is that stated? I'm scrolling through until my eyes cross and I'm not finding it
Autumn
Mar 2015
#81
Explain the 'democracy building' we are doing in Ukraine for all that money. We did the same thing
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#141
The bottom line here is that Pilger lied regarding the $5 billion figure, and you can't escape that.
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#149
What happened to the Orange Revolution and all that democracy building and how much did we
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#185
Pilger didn't need to 'want me' to believe anything. We poured money into Iraq, into Ukraine
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#310
Telling me to shut up makes you sound like some kind of nutty authority, uhnope.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#68
That's your opinion. Pilger has enormous credibility around the world. Maybe that is why
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#146
Why smear me? Nothing to say about Fascism in the USA? I'd add, 'Huh?' but, you know.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#10
Pilger's against the fascists that he wants to be against. But he's okay with the other fascists.
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#27
Just keep telling the truth Octafish. A lot of people hate freedom of the press.
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#38
Seeing as how your OP and one of your replies in this thread contain pictures
NuclearDem
Mar 2015
#136
Yugoslavia was a model for the future world. Nothing commie about putting people over war profits.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#6
I've noticed that also. And wonder why anyone here would be upset about the truth
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#40
The reason goes back asking Poppy Bush: why he was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963?
Octafish
Mar 2015
#73
Why didn't he report that earlier? That's a good question. I can think of a few reasons why
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#101
So, you can't find where I lied. That's different, isn't it? That's called a smear.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#20
If they're documentable lies, then by all means DOCUMENT THEM with some links.
Maedhros
Mar 2015
#35
I've asked the same question. But still have not received the documentation that supposedly exists.
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#47
So Virginia Nuland was the one lying then, and Pilger was merely giving her credit for telling the
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#55
Regardless of what "Virginia" Nuland said, the issue has been researched and Pilger's lying.
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#58
So neocon, Virginia Nuland lied? Someone is lying, that's for sure, and generally speaking when a
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#61
As far as I know, "Virginia" Nuland appears to be correct in her assertion. Pilger is lying.
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#63
Virginia Nuland is a neocon, married to a neocon. I despise Neocons. They lie, they lied us into a
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#67
Why are you talking about "Virginia" Nuland? We're talking about John Pilger lying. Read his quote.
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#70
It is precisely the point. You argue relentlessly that Pilger is a liar, Tommy_Carcetti.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#79
Are you admitting that Pilger lied when he claimed Obama spent $5 billion on a "coup" in Ukraine?
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#84
We don't know, do we? It's classified Top Secret. Along with a lot more information we should know.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#89
Yes, and neocons are suddenly popular here, AND 'truthful'! She was caught planning the coup
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#100
You don't want us to talk about the neocons who were over there plotting for AFTER the Coup
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#96
From 2011: Goldman Sachs Is So Desperate To Get Into Ukraine It's Advising The Government For FREE
Octafish
Mar 2015
#105
I posted FACTS. Not lies. Facts you claim are TRUE. That neocon Victoria Nuland boasted that the US
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#139
Pilger claimed President Obama spent $5 billion in 2014 to overthrow the Ukrainian government.
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#154
If anyone ever needed this whole argument summed up in a nutshell, there it is.
NuclearDem
Mar 2015
#186
I agree with that. Virginia, yes there is a Santa Claus, Nuland's involvement in the pre-coup is
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#209
Considering you again have refused to at least acknowledge the facts I just stated, you
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#212
And coincidentally, she got what she wanted. And even considered what to do about the Neo Nazis
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#260
I'm glad you brought that up.. 'Things May Have Gotten Worse in Ukraine for the LGBT Community'
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#258
And you're getting this impression that LGBT allies don't care about the Ukrainian LGBT community...
NuclearDem
Mar 2015
#263
Stop it! I did not try to use this issue, I responded to Zappaman's attempt to use it. Do NOT
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#269
Do you support the US funding Ukraine, where 80% of the population opposes Gay Rights?
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#285
You are defending the use of Gay Rights as a political football? Ignoring Ukraine's 80% opposition
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#280
Now you are simply rambling. You support the US funding of Ukraine. You jumped in on the
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#286
You supported someone who used the despicable tactic of using the rights of persecuted minorities
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#288
Do you support the funding of an almost totally anti-Gay rights Ukraine by the US?
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#291
You support Ukraine, a nation where 80% of the population opposes Gay Rights.
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#292
Criticizing a professional debunker is not homophobic. Amazing Randi is undemocratic.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#235
Science and reality aren't democratic. You don't get to vote on what's true or not.
NuclearDem
Mar 2015
#236
Amazing Randi smeared Rupert Sheldrake. Amazing Randi broke US immigration law.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#238
I literally have no idea where you are going with this or how it's relevant to our discussion. nt
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#281
Would you like links to all the homophobes and anti-Semites you promote on DU?
zappaman
Mar 2015
#268
Why smear me over what Mearsheimer wrote? Take it out on him. That's the Fascist thing to do.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#277
What lies did Pilger tell? Could you link to them with documentation? You did say they
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#41
If you paste together a narrative of lies, such as the one I've pointed out on the Pilger piece...
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#124
Except you don't show he's any of that. So, all you got is a smear, zappaman.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#137
Its not an insult to point out how you like posting articles from anti-Semites and homophobes.
zappaman
Mar 2015
#170
You know, at this point I'm thinking you are some Andy Kauffman-esqe caricature....
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#166
Do I have to spell it out for you? The people who tried to overthrow FDR in 1933 had kids.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#183
"Mearsheimer is an expert in the field of international relations." And an anti-Semite.
zappaman
Mar 2015
#172
If they are waking up, we can expect a lot more flagwaving and scary bogeymen to appear
Tierra_y_Libertad
Mar 2015
#18
I read this article last year and was wondering what it was about, thanks for the info.
Rex
Mar 2015
#16
Yes now they are on their 5th president in Ukraine. Another RWing crook it appears.
Rex
Mar 2015
#28
So you are okay with the 5th president being a RWing criminal, thanks that was what i wanted to know
Rex
Mar 2015
#36
It is amusing, just to defend their pony people here will defend RWing leaders in other countries.
Rex
Mar 2015
#32
There really is no way to deny the neo-Nazi elements in the Ukraine government. So the default
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#44
Would you like to see the photos of all the world leaders who were posing with and making deals with
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#57
Oh it wasn't WE who 'white-washed all these Dictators, it was our LEADERS. So go talk to THEM.
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#99
Who liked Gadaffi? Bishop Tutu for one, and Mandela. Both referred to him as a 'brother' for the
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#143
Good and Evil....Its often in the eye of the beholder and people are complicated....
KoKo
Mar 2015
#244
Which of course totally justifies turning Libya into a shithole full of squabbling warlords n/t
eridani
Mar 2015
#225
Thanks. I will check that out. The most under-referenced liberal intellectual of my lifetime
Doctor_J
Mar 2015
#131
He's entitled to his opinion. Do you think the United States is entitled to kill innocent people?
Octafish
Mar 2015
#109
I'm sorry, Prescott Bush has something to do with Putin's war of aggression...how?
NuclearDem
Mar 2015
#193
Prescott's ancestors are still on the Bridge of the Ship of State, making Big Bucks off War.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#197
His son, George Herbert Walker Bush, and grandson, George Walker Bush, both lied America into war.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#199
So, of course then President Obama paid $5 billlion in 2014 for a "coup" in Ukraine!
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#200
Because secret government is secret? Ask PNAC Robert Kagan's wife, Victoria Nuland.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#273
Why do you spread disinformation, Tommy_Carcetti? Is it some sort of sick game for you?
Octafish
Mar 2015
#298
Someone clearly hasn't been reading all the responses to his own posts here. nt
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#299
What I can hang on you, Octafish, is that you posted a piece with blatant misinformation.
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2015
#301
What disinformation did I post? Where I said you posted her name wrong when you didn't?
Octafish
Mar 2015
#303
Thanks for posting Octafish. Pleased to see the number of 'recs' your OP is receiving.
Purveyor
Mar 2015
#128
Remember who Uncle Sam hired for the secret government: the Mafia and the NAZIs.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#222
I think all the U.S. government / Obama apologists here prove that America is indeed a fascist state
AZ Progressive
Mar 2015
#145
Democrats believe in Democracy for everyone. It's genetic. Same for Fascism. You can just tell.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#204
Which makes him out to be PNAC chums with Robert Kagan, husband, coincidentally, of Victoria Nuland.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#243
PNAC is attempting to force US into arming Ukraine in a hoped-for war with Russia.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#247
PNAC ''Chums'' is a bad word on my part. Sorry. PNAC "Co-conspirators" would be more accurate.
Octafish
Mar 2015
#252
No, I'm hoping you'd maybe realize how hurtful and derogatory a word like r******* is.
NuclearDem
Mar 2015
#330
CIA manual Urged Rebels to Assassinate Their Own In Order to Create “Martyrs”
Ichingcarpenter
Mar 2015
#284
Russia's actions in Ukraine conflict an 'invasion', says US official Victoria Nuland
Octafish
Mar 2015
#314