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In reply to the discussion: That Story About Hillary Clinton’s Private Email Account Isn’t as Awful as It Seems [View all]merrily
(45,251 posts)151. The language you highlighted in your post says federal LAW, not federal regulations.
This is the language you highlighted in your OP.
Under federal law, however, letters and emails written and received by federal officials, such as the secretary of state, are considered government records and are supposed to be retained so that congressional committees, historians and members of the news media can find them.
He says nothing about regulations.
The Federal Records Act is a statute, or law. Earlier today, I linked you to the definition of "records" in that statute, but you claimed it was irrelevant. You were mistaken. That statutory definition does say that things created and received by federal officials (that relate to public business) are federal "records," which is exactly what Baron claims the law says (again, not the regulation, but the statute..
Other parts of the Federal Records statute specify what officials must do with things that fall under the definition of federal records.
A statue passed by Congress is federal law. It is "higher" federal law than a federal regulation that a federal agency adopts to make a statute more specific. A regulation CANNOT lawfully require anything that the statute does not require. So claiming that the regulation created a new requirement that did not exist under the 1950 statute shows a lack of understanding of the relation between statutes and regulations.
The regulation may clarify the statute, but, again, no regulation can lawfully require more than the statute does. If it does, a court will strike down the regulation as invalid. So, either this newer regulation is simply making the requirements of the 1950 act more specific, or it is an invalid regulation. Either way, 1950 is the relevant date, not the date some particular regulation was adopted.
So, your pointing out that he doesn't say which federal regulation was violated misses the mark.
(This in itself, is not to say that Hillary violated the Federal Records statute, only that the statute has covered all federal records since 1950, regardless of the form in which they are embodied and, yes, the 1950 statute did apply to the Secretary of State and still does.)
But, as far as we know, Hillary did retain the records. She did not, however, either segregate the records or archive them (or see that that happened). However, as long as she did not destroy the records, all else can be remedied. So, in the end, nothing much is going to come of this anyway.
Of course, the agency most responsible for federal records is the National Archives and Records Administration. And you and various others are contradicting the man who used to be in charge of lawsuits by and against that agency. He is now with a 160 year old law firm of over 600 attorneys, which numbers both suggest some degree of success on the part of that law firm. That kind of success doesn't come from hiring people who don't know what they are talking about.
Here is the write up the law firm where Baronn now practices shows for him. Among many other things, it shows 25 years experience with the agency in charge of federal records and a particular expertise with electronic communications. I recommend reading at least the first few paragraphs.
http://www.drinkerbiddle.com/news/headlines/2013/jason-baron-us-archives-joins-drinker-biddle
I don't think professional media writers and commentators, even if they have law degrees, can think a quick look at a statute or a regulation can possibly trump the knowledge this man has on this subject. If I have to choose between what this guy says about this particular law and what some guy at mediamatters says after contemplating the matter briefly, I'm going with Baron. And I recommend the same to others.
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That Story About Hillary Clinton’s Private Email Account Isn’t as Awful as It Seems [View all]
wyldwolf
Mar 2015
OP
Fire spreads pretty rapidly, doesn't it? The pants-on-fire brigade sets everyone's pants on fire.
randome
Mar 2015
#26
There was some suggestion that her staff deleted the emails instead of archiving them. That may
jwirr
Mar 2015
#5
Agree with u wolf, a suggestion doesn't equal proof, and so we should wait for accredited news organizations- not Fux News fo sho - to look into whether emails were improperly deleted.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Mar 2015
#20
Baron, the guy the OP mentions, is probably THE greatest authority on this matter in the world.
merrily
Mar 2015
#160
The witness he was talking to said this. Who knows if any of this is what they are telling us?
jwirr
Mar 2015
#33
Sorry. I gave you the program and I was only half listening to that. Are you saying that you were
jwirr
Mar 2015
#42
Anything that was on those servers can be recovered. Any deletions are a telltale map.
leveymg
Mar 2015
#21
Yes, I think that she handed over 55,000 to the senate during the Benghazi hearings alone. And
jwirr
Mar 2015
#28
There's not going to be a bipartisan effort to squelch this one. This isn't Benghazi,
leveymg
Mar 2015
#40
So could anyone who hacked into the system. That's another point that's going to be raised.
leveymg
Mar 2015
#53
Let's find out 1st wat was deleted b4 reachin any conclusions, thats only fair. But, Hillary wud b wise 2 get out in front of this story b4 it really gets legs...Paging Lanny Davis.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Mar 2015
#39
maybe the rest of the posts were personal. family, friends, medical emails from drs..
misterhighwasted
Mar 2015
#81
No, they don't have to. You can configure a mail server to really delete the email. (nt)
jeff47
Mar 2015
#93
Twice. Actually, those copies may be more secure and less likely to be released in this case.
leveymg
Mar 2015
#110
Aw, man! The knives are OUT for Secretary Clinton. I mean, if she did something untoward, then ok,
BlueCaliDem
Mar 2015
#19
I'm willin to wait to see if somethin "untoward" happened, as u remark, but I think most here can @ least agree, in this case, Hillary exercised poor judgment.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Mar 2015
#29
Actually, she hasn't. She hasn't done anything different than any other State Dept. Heads have done.
BlueCaliDem
Mar 2015
#86
Wow! So your defense is to refer me to a post by a State Department insider who basically admits what Hillary did is incompetent, not nefarious?...
InAbLuEsTaTe
Mar 2015
#116
and then when 'progressives' latch onto the next faux scandal for a few days...
wyldwolf
Mar 2015
#63
CAPS are the last recourse of the truly hysterical. Better watch that, it's a tell.
leveymg
Mar 2015
#89
Likely worse than you think. Private email is how they nailed Gen. Petraeus, remember?
leveymg
Mar 2015
#14
Wrong. The email was a way to investigate and publicize the affair - per se violation of UCOMC.
leveymg
Mar 2015
#96
No Information Technology professional would say what she or any predecessor did was acceptable
KeepItReal
Mar 2015
#15
I also wonder why some liberals are always so eager, evidence later, to assist in smearing other liberals?
Fred Sanders
Mar 2015
#17
If Hillary runs, and is the Democratic nominee, if DU honors its original TOS a lot of the vitrol
still_one
Mar 2015
#134
Righties hell, the Hillary haters on DU are peeing in their pants they are so excited
still_one
Mar 2015
#65
Why do you automatically assume this is all "half truths, sorta maybe's," etc.?
leveymg
Mar 2015
#45
Do you seriously think that article went to press unless there's a reason for what was included and
leveymg
Mar 2015
#67
do you seriously believe that 'journalists' don't intentionally omit facts to slant their pieces?
wyldwolf
Mar 2015
#69
Exactly, Judy That means one of two things: the NYT is invested in outcomes; or they have considered
leveymg
Mar 2015
#85
Sure, not a big deal if you are already either a fan or "Ready For Hillary".
closeupready
Mar 2015
#49
Hair on fire is the new intellectualism. And the media is always on the spot with accelerant.
Fred Sanders
Mar 2015
#60
Who cares? I'll worry about her email indiscretions when the 5 million Bush/Rove emails are un"lost"
GoneFishin
Mar 2015
#58
I love good snark, but I don't get which way my snark-o-meter is supposed to go on this?
GoneFishin
Mar 2015
#111
I see what you are saying. If there are indicators that she did this to cover up immoral acts then
GoneFishin
Mar 2015
#117
I don't care if Jesus Christ used personal email instead of the corporate email
LiberalArkie
Mar 2015
#68
It's VERY bad and that's precisely the point: we need a candidate - like Elizabeth - who exudes competency and good judgment 24/7 with no days off.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Mar 2015
#125
Hey,...that flies in the face of the "dumb blonde" talking point the Republicans want to tell.
Spitfire of ATJ
Mar 2015
#101
And I've always said, faux Third Wayers have a different definition of Democrat
LondonReign2
Mar 2015
#140
There are some facts and some links in my reply 151. Turns out, a minimum of googling
merrily
Mar 2015
#166
But, not really, really bad. Kinda sorta bad, but not the kinda bad that would get one jailed.
Major Hogwash
Mar 2015
#168
...and therefore people should quit twisting themselves into pretzels trying to excuse it.
Iggo
Mar 2015
#136
The language you highlighted in your post says federal LAW, not federal regulations.
merrily
Mar 2015
#151
Dude you need to read the stuff I linked in my first post. If you think you or some reporter
merrily
Mar 2015
#155
You don't stand alone. You stand with 'Baron.' And Walker. And Rubio. And Jeb.
wyldwolf
Mar 2015
#157
You can attempt a cheap smear, or you can try to educate yourself, as I suggested to you earlier
merrily
Mar 2015
#158
So Shultz defended Clinton because he used to be a Republican and Clinton broke a 1950 law.
wyldwolf
Mar 2015
#165