General Discussion

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)

140. A few points ...

Tue May 1, 2012, 01:27 PM

May 2012

1) You claim ... they don't have the "slightest clue of who the fuck they're aiming at!" Really, no clue, none. Hard to take that level of hyperbole seriously.

2) When Bush invaded Afghanistan, I supported that. When he became distracted and went to Iraq, I opposed him. Screaming about drones is like screaming about a tank. A drone is a weapon. Weapons are designed such that my weapon makes it easier for me to kill you than for you to kill me. Troops are weapons. And if I get to pick whether we use troops or drones, I pick drones.

3) I supported candidate Obama's intent to (a) leave Iraq, and (b) increase focus back on Afghanistan and the Pakistan border. If Bush had maintained that focus, I'd probably have supported it ... and I'm on DU, I know others here agree with my perspective on this ... so you might want to try to not speak for everyone on DU.

4) So since you aren't going to be part of the party that does these evil things, and I suppose you won't be voting for Obama (you don't have to answer that, I know the TOS) ... let's discuss reality. Obama will win in 2012, with or without your vote. My question is one I've asked BBI ... when will you start the PROGRESSIVE PREZ 2016 forum here on DU? Obama is evil, but he will be president for 4 more years.

So that is the question .. .what's your plan for 2016?

There will be no primary of Obama. Are you going to wait around until 1 year before the next election and THEN bring forward the candidate you want?

I find it hard to take seriously those on DU who attack Obama endlessly, on a site dedicated to helping get Dems elected, when they have yet to start a POSITIVE discussion on who they want to put forward in 2016.

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Jeremy Scahill: The United States Has Become A 'Nation of Assassins' With Drone Attacks [View all] Better Believe It Apr 2012 OP

But then we'd be allowing all those terrorists coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #1

Um, our democracy drones bring freedom quinnox Apr 2012 #2

"Democracy drones" is a bit like "liberty napalm" and "freedom bombs". Better Believe It Apr 2012 #4

indeed n/t quinnox Apr 2012 #5

They say marketing is everything, try to sell "kill a wedding party full of women and children" it Dragonfli May 2012 #112

One person's opinion. bluestate10 Apr 2012 #3

Then trot them out Autumn Apr 2012 #6

It is easier for you to find a firebrand willing to open his mouth, than bluestate10 May 2012 #144

Clearly, no actual good has come of the drones. Ken Burch May 2012 #84

Please trot them out. But they need to have the credentials Scahill has. Reports today from sabrina 1 May 2012 #124

Ditto, and why are we attacking Yemen, Somalia, the Philippines, American citizens? sad sally May 2012 #142

Another Obama Administration-bashing article from Better Believe It. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #7

another criticizing the messenger without commenting on the content nt msongs Apr 2012 #8

The messenger has an agenda. n/t Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #9

Uh huh. blue neen Apr 2012 #10

There are plenty of places that welcome Obama-bashing during the general election season. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #12

We agree. blue neen Apr 2012 #17

Thanks! :D Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #34

So all those thousands of posts on against Bush's wars weren't sincere... Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #23

I feel very badly about your dilemma. n/t Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #26

I don't have a dilemma. There is a wide world wide web out there and there is Occupy. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #36

How do you think assisting the election of Mitt Romney is going to help your goals? n/t Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #40

Got it. Protesting against war and drone warfare = assisting Romney. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #45

Nope - Posting Obama-bashing articles incessantly at a board committed to re-electing him Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #46

Democratic Underground is an arm of the Democratic Party? Luminous Animal May 2012 #48

And posting here will sway the Election too!!! neverforget May 2012 #52

Allow me to quote the Terms of Service that you have agreed to. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #53

Given that Romney hasn't critisized either Bush or Obama for their wars (that is, Romney Luminous Animal May 2012 #73

"I understand what you are saying." Clearly you do not. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #81

Oh, I do see. Too many ant-war posts = bashing Obama. It's okay to be little bit anti-war but Luminous Animal May 2012 #90

Please stop misrepresenting me. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #93

Fine, I'll repost the article whatchamacallit May 2012 #118

First. Obama is NOT the emperor of democrats. 2nd opposing policy decisions is our right got root May 2012 #68

Yup, and opposing *horrific* policy decisions is not just our right, woo me with science May 2012 #104

We don't have to be silent about the barbaric drone program to re-elect the prez Ken Burch May 2012 #86

Bravo! You have my respect for your beliefs, they show character and honesty. /nt Dragonfli May 2012 #94

Hear, hear. nt woo me with science May 2012 #107

They appear to be saying just that without even realizing it Dragonfli May 2012 #88

This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch May 2012 #96

You can't just say that ANY criticism is "bashing". Ken Burch May 2012 #82

No, I can't. And I don't. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #87

So basically you have it out for BBI and would try to get him banned (by slander if necessary) Dragonfli May 2012 #91

I have it out for the tactic of posting Obama-bashing threads incessantly here at DU. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #99

Sorry, it sounds personal to me, you should post on the content of the OP rather than Dragonfli May 2012 #106

How could it be personal? I don't know anything about BBI other than his or her tactics. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #114

How can it be personal? Dude, you are an admitted stalker of BBI that has said Dragonfli May 2012 #116

Is there any reason we should be made to be publicly silent about the drones? Ken Burch May 2012 #92

I have not advocated that you should be made to be publicly silent about the drones. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #100

Nothing BBI is doing is going to help Romney Ken Burch May 2012 #105

Take a look at another BBI thread down below, the religious belief one. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #119

Nailed it perfectly. nt Bobbie Jo May 2012 #171

Kudos Swede May 2012 #172

So what the message reveals doesn't matter, Autumn Apr 2012 #11

See Post #12. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #13

Yes the messenger does. Stop assassinating people around the world. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #14

I invite you to read the Terms of Service you agreed to when signing up for an account. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #20

I think that comes in when Skinner says so, not when you say so. Autumn Apr 2012 #22

What do you say? Are both major party candidates clear or not? Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #29

I doesn't matter what I say. Skinner is the one who will announce that. Autumn May 2012 #130

nowhere in the TOS does it say we must support all policies of the Obama administration quinnox Apr 2012 #25

I don't believe I said that at all. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #31

So, advocating against the wars is anti-Obama. Got it. Luminous Animal Apr 2012 #28

Obama ended the Iraq War. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #32

I am so glad we pulled out of Afghanistan and pulled back our freedom drones from other countries Dragonfli May 2012 #101

He ended it too late to matter Ken Burch May 2012 #102

It should never have been started. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #108

World War I and World War II ended immediately. So did our Civil War. Ken Burch May 2012 #110

It may have been because the Iraqis asked us to leave at the date they set with Bush Dragonfli May 2012 #115

You have an agenda. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #15

Yes, I do - the re-election of the Democratic candidate for president. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #16

You attack leftists.. girl gone mad Apr 2012 #24

It's attacking someone to point out they keep posting Obama-bashing articles here? Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #27

Just because you appear not to know the difference, the truth is not Obama Bashing, it is simply the Dragonfli Apr 2012 #39

And the truth is that Better Believe It again and again posts Obama-bashing articles here. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #41

He posts many articles that are true and embarrassing for our party, I will grant you that Dragonfli May 2012 #69

Bashing is not a real word, it is childish and rude, close to breaking the rules here Dragonfli May 2012 #76

"Bashing" is a word used in the Terms of Service. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #79

I am not as new as you, long ago they did not use such a childish term. Dragonfli May 2012 #83

Really? You signed up in 2004. I signed up in 2002. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #85

Good! then you remember that the teenage words are new in the TOS, that makes it easier to Dragonfli May 2012 #98

What is your plan to get Democrats elected and re-elected? blue neen Apr 2012 #30

they remind me of these guys got root May 2012 #47

As apposed to a series of posts that assume the worst of Obama, sounds good to me karynnj May 2012 #133

Yes, the same agenda we all had when it was a Bush doing it, some don't change their views with the Dragonfli Apr 2012 #38

How do you expect assisting the election of Mitt Romney will advance your stated goals? n/t Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #42

Who is campaigning for Mitt Romney here? The discussion is about an issue, not who Dragonfli May 2012 #59

It's kind of interesing that you feel the need to tell us who BBI is supporting for POTUS. blue neen May 2012 #70

It has come up and I have a memory, so I felt I should enlighten those that are ignorant of the fact Dragonfli May 2012 #74

Undermining and bashing the Democrat candidate incessantly is the equivalent Bolo Boffin May 2012 #71

It is a simplistic childish view complete with childish words like "bashing". Reality is not so Dragonfli May 2012 #75

i don't think a campaign comercial will be enough got root Apr 2012 #18

It's a battle of words, the poster bearer cried. Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #21

yeah, and what you brought to the table isn't enough to gloss over the crimes committed in our names got root Apr 2012 #35

So I'm attempting to gloss over the crimes committed in our names? Bolo Boffin Apr 2012 #43

yes got root May 2012 #50

The Generals sat and the lines on the map , move from side to side. Dragonfli May 2012 #55

Who knows which is which and who is who? Bolo Boffin May 2012 #56

Does Skinner know you're out here harassing members of his web site? EFerrari May 2012 #60

If what you think I'm doing is harassing, why don't you let him know? Bolo Boffin May 2012 #66

Yes, you are discussing the poster and not the article. EFerrari May 2012 #134

llow a editorial critical of specific policies to stand on its own merit also. LanternWaste May 2012 #151

Over the even more "right" candidate, most assuredly, but I will not support needless death. Dragonfli May 2012 #64

Where have I asked you to support needless death? Bolo Boffin May 2012 #67

You're kidding right? The OP is about NOT supporting this shit, and you call it "bashing" Dragonfli May 2012 #72

No, I am not kidding. I have never asked you to support needless deaths. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #78

It may be wrong in other cases, but not in this OP, the only way to please you here Dragonfli May 2012 #80

Children Killed. Rescuers Killed. Hissyspit May 2012 #109

Imagine those numbers under a President McCain. n/t Bolo Boffin May 2012 #111

Imagine those numbers under a peace loving Democrat (try zero as the goal) /nt Dragonfli May 2012 #113

We don't have to imagine the numbers under Obama. They are real. morningfog May 2012 #126

Oh, I bet you can think of how much worse President McCain would have been. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #128

And you might actually be wrong. Although we'll never know. Hissyspit May 2012 #155

You think a President McCain body count would have been better than President Obama's? Bolo Boffin May 2012 #156

Obama's IS too high. That is the point. morningfog May 2012 #159

Too high compared to what? Bolo Boffin May 2012 #161

Too high compared to those who are innocent and should be alive. morningfog May 2012 #163

"Yes, war is hell." Bolo Boffin May 2012 #165

War is a racket. morningfog May 2012 #166

I'll be happy to discuss this with you further here. Bolo Boffin May 2012 #167

Brennan has no legitimacy after being caught in a lie about civilian dead in drone strikes. morningfog May 2012 #169

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #137

Maybe the U.S. ProSense Apr 2012 #19

Drone strike transparency pscot May 2012 #49

It wasn't ProSense May 2012 #51

doesn't really give a wit what other countries or people think got root May 2012 #61

. ProSense May 2012 #63

. got root May 2012 #65

Every major war in the last century has involved bombing cities bhikkhu Apr 2012 #33

it's murder, just the same, on a smaller scale got root Apr 2012 #37

We're at war with Yemen and Pakistan? gratuitous Apr 2012 #44

Families of drone victims probably think so. nt EFerrari May 2012 #62

don't forget, we've also launched drone attacks in the Philippines sad sally May 2012 #150

Absolutely gratuitous May 2012 #153

There's no way "freedom-leeching" drones and the control they have now and will continue to sad sally May 2012 #154

Du rec. Nt xchrom May 2012 #54

White House approves broader Yemen drone campaign neverforget May 2012 #57

Cowards and assassins with lousy aim..... DeSwiss May 2012 #58

wow! it's amazing how much better a thread can become by putting just a few people on ignore got root May 2012 #77

Do you always air your dirty laundry in public? lonestarnot May 2012 #95

no, but i do pass along tips on how to keep it clean got root May 2012 #122

So does MIRT... SidDithers May 2012 #162

IDGNDFDUFDBDFDFND randome May 2012 #123

Add me to your list. bluestate10 May 2012 #146

ha... you too! fascisthunter May 2012 #158

No problem. No doubt Obama will bring the assassins to justice along with their bosses. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2012 #89

30,000 Drones, one coming to your neighborhood soon BetsysGhost May 2012 #97

Good luck trying to end these policies under a Republican President, all. nt patrice May 2012 #103

Well, we knew that, which is why we elected Democrats. sabrina 1 May 2012 #125

We have no chance of ending them under a Democratic one either. Not much difference here. morningfog May 2012 #127

We haven't had any luck ending it under a Democratic President Autumn May 2012 #138

Kick for Jeremy Scahill, he has done a great job reporting on the MIC and Blackwater! Dragonfli May 2012 #117

Is Jeremy Scahill running for office? Electric Monk May 2012 #120

Not as far as I know, what have you heard? I would support a truth seeking journalist for congress Dragonfli May 2012 #121

Stay home dems, stay home. JoePhilly May 2012 #129

You're off topic. Do you have an opinion on what is being discussed? Better Believe It May 2012 #131

I did share it. I'll expand. JoePhilly May 2012 #132

Do you wish to refute the article or not? So far you haven't. Better Believe It May 2012 #135

We use drones. Better that then sending in ground troops. JoePhilly May 2012 #139

Attacks to the right of him, attacks to the left!!! DeSwiss May 2012 #136

A few points ... JoePhilly May 2012 #140

Fortunately ant railing in the wilderness are unheard. bluestate10 May 2012 #148

Keep up the good work! Rex May 2012 #141

I can't believe that democrats and so-called progressives defend this shit.... mike_c May 2012 #143

I was ok with it when Bush did it and am ok now that Obama does it. bluestate10 May 2012 #149

Actually, since it is killing non-combatants and rescuers, they are quite probably war crimes. Hissyspit May 2012 #157

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe May 2012 #145

We only kill people who *don't like* us. kenny blankenship May 2012 #147

Do you REALLY think this is anything NEW? Bake May 2012 #152

What's the alternative, Mr. Scahill? Daniel537 May 2012 #160

How about following the Constitution and Bill of Rights? Better Believe It May 2012 #164

Homeland != Fatherland.. Fumesucker May 2012 #168

So if an American goes overseas, joins al-Qaida and declares war against his country Daniel537 May 2012 #170

If an American becomes a Marxist and declares "war" against capitalism should they be murdured? Better Believe It May 2012 #173

If they also join a terrorist group outside the ability of US power to arrest and then Bolo Boffin May 2012 #174